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W-E Doric Piston Fill And Adjustable Nib


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#1 RichKen

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 18:00

I'm about to attempt my first restoration of a piston fill Doric and an adjustable nib. Have read the Da Book, Fr. Terry's Sheaffer vac references and looked at Richard's site. I have questions about opening the pen to access the piston, knocking the feed out to free the nib which needs adjusting and restoration of the "thingy" (Safety In Shut-off) on the underside of the feed.

I've opened several Sheaffer vacs to replace washers and augment the filler seal and expect to use that experience. I've knocked feeds out to free the nib to work on but never on an W-E adjustable nib.

Is there any reference help out there? I've searched this site and found good general information. Is there any detail information on the site I'm missing?

I'm proceeding with caution for the pen was not a sumgai.

FPOW pg. 139- illus. #18 shows the pen type, however mine is black

Thanks for any help. Richard

Edited 5.20.07
thumbup.gif I started this thread some time ago. The first response was from our moderator - the Wahlnut. thumbup.gif
The results of this project.




Read through the thread and you'll see that I got my self in a jamb. However some BC chat with Syd and his offer to tweak the work that I had done resulted in a replacement section, adjustable nib, plunger washer which Syd installed and tuned after my attempts fell short.

Great communication, mentoring, generosity sharing knowledge, rapid turnaround, very reasonable charges and finally the necessary experience and skill to make all work in a pen which I now know to be more complex than I imagined at the onset. This FPN moderator cares about Wahls and about those of us that are interested.

If you are considering a Wahl or are having difficulties with one I suggest you consider discussing it with Syd, the Wahlnut.

The disclaimer - just a very pleased fellow FPNer with no affiliation. Many kudos to Syd and the Wahl Eversharp Forum

Edited by RichKen, 20 May 2007 - 20:39.


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#2 Wahlnut

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 02:40

I have the factory repair manual pages for this repair (dis-assembly and reassembly) if you need it. But the things you will need are:

Tiny needle-nose pliers or tweezers to remove the spring that controls the movement of the shut-off mechanism

Father Terry's 2 tined screwdriver tool to unscrew the gasket retainer

Replacement gasket for the the plunger-rod

New packing felt and rubber washers if the packing unit at the end of the barrel needs to be replaced

Small flat smooth parallel jaw pliers to grip the blind cap retaining nut

Silicone grease

Packing felt and rubber washer

A lot of patience and some decent fine motor skills


From memory, here is the procedure:
1) remove the section (it unscrews on vacuum models - counter-clockwise
2) remove the blind barrel cap (hold the retaining nut still with the pliers, and unscrew the blind cap with your other hand)
3) remove the blind barrel cap retaining nut from the plunger shaft end
4) push the shaft into the barrel from the blind cap end and out of the mouth of the barrel
5) use the 2 tined screwdriver tool to remove the gasket retaining cap
6) remove the old gasket if still there.
7) replace the gasket with a new one
8) replace the retaining screw with the 2 tined screwdriver tool
9) insert the shaft back into the mouth of the barel and sending the threaded end of the shaft up and through the packing unit then replace the retaining nut and the blind cap.
10) For the amateur:  if the packing unit is not tight enough around the plunger shaft to make a good air-tight seal you will need to replace the felt inside the packing unit. getting the old packing unit out is a bear and many folks opt for either a rubber gasket/washer placed inside the barrel against the bottom of the packing unit, or tiny "o" ring placed on top of the packing unit. Problem with the latter is that the "o" ring takes up too much lock down thread space on the blind cap and sometimes the blind cap stands proud of its normal seated position. But it is a cheap and easy fix. The other option is to remove the innards of the packing unit and replace it with o-ring held in place by a nylon spacer but that is really a professional's area of expertise.
11) Remove the personal point assembly from the section (unscrew it)
12) Remove the spring from the shut-off mechanism (careful!! the spring is tiny and if it shoots loose from the tweezers, it may be almost impossible to find.) The spring is accessible through the window in the collar of the personal point assembly. Now you can knock out the nib and feed and the shut off by using a knock out rod with a concave end so as to not damage the shut off cone in the knock out process.
13) Look inside and see if the shut-off gasket is still there and remove the old gasket and replace with a new one. (the failure of this gasket is the reason why the shut-off mechanism failed over time. It needs to be replaced every four or five years.
14) Now the nib, feed and shut-off are free for cleaning
15)Re-assemble the nib, feed and shut-off device back into the personal point collar, replace the shut off spring.
16) Look at the thread area of the section. There should be a hard rubber cross-bar for the plunger rod end to strike and be forced off-center to break the fill vacuum.
17) if it is missing or broken (usually the case on older unrestored pens), replace it.
18) reverse the procedure to reassemble.
Easy huh?

It will take a pro about 30 minutes to do all this if the packing unit is not removed. If this sounds like a bit too much, send it to a pro. Ahem.


Edited by Wahlnut, 18 February 2014 - 08:26.

Syd "the Wahlnut" Saperstein
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Vintage Wahl Eversharp Writing Instruments
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The WAHL-EVERSHARP Company
www.wahleversharp.com
New WAHL-EVERSHARP fountain and Roller-Ball pens

#3 RichKen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 03:25

Dear Ahem, wink.gif

That is so appreciated. Sounds like the drill for a Sheaffer Vac kind of. I think I can visualize what you described based on experiences to date. After some deep breathing exercises will have a go at it taking it step by step.

QUOTE
  I have the factory repair manual pages for this repair (dis-assembly and reassembly) if you need it.
That I would like to see. PM me how to go about that.

I'll probably opt for the gasket inside the barrel in lieu of trying to repack the seal.

QUOTE
13) Look inside and see if the shut-off gasket is still there and remove the old gasket and replace with a new one. (the failure of this gasket is the reason why the shut-off mechanism failed over time. It need to be replace ever for or five years.


The shut-off gasket I expect to be a problem until I see what one looks like. Is there a source?

Up until now I think I have the patience and fine motor skills for this hobby. Or I've just been lucky. This one will test that opinion.

Will keep you informed as I progress on this project. 30 minutes you say - ok. sick.gif

Thank you Syd, you are very kind to share your knowledge and take the time to put it down as you have.

Regards, Richard


#4 RichKen

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 22:46

Begin the adventure - following Ahem's directions.

user posted image

I removed the point section. I use plastic tubing in various sizes to wrap the pen to concentrate heat at parts that are to come apart. Lots of gentle heating before the joint opened. Think I used my 30 minutes up right there.

user posted image

WD 40 spayed in the blind cap loosened that joint. The blind cap unscrews from the plunger rod. The small nut tightens and locks the cap to the rod. Pushed the rod out. The washer was ossified and in fragments as you can see in the scan. I'm waiting for a washer and seal gasket, so put the parts aside.

user posted image

The bar is in place at the rear of the point section. Good.

user posted image

The nib has some problems - understatement cool.gif

user posted image

The personal point section apart. Next cleaned the parts - ultrasonically and with q-tip and Koh-I-Noor pen cleaner. Ink residue vanished. The nib was now free to begin aligning tines and burnishing out the creases. This part was scary. Thought I might loose the iridium. Something or someone really put a twist on the tines of this nib. I think I'm okay though - fingers crossed.

Did some cleanup and polishing on body and cap - things are looking good so far.

Reassembled the personal point section. I think I'm going to pass on trying to replace the shut-off gasket. There is one in there - looks suspiciously like cork - is that possible? I'll try it as is - but the existing is probably shot.

Incidentally- the spring in there is really small. Needle point jewelers tweezers work very well in capturing and removing / replacing the spring. No fly away experienced.

That's it for now - hope it was informative. Syd remembers the sequence well. Must have done it more than a few times. Thanks again. blush.gif Richard

#5 Wahlnut

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 02:13

Good Job! Watch out Pro's, you are fast being joined by the likes of "Richard the Adventurous"!
Syd "the Wahlnut" Saperstein
Pensbury Manor
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The WAHL-EVERSHARP Company
www.wahleversharp.com
New WAHL-EVERSHARP fountain and Roller-Ball pens

#6 RichKen

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 17:45

QUOTE
The nib has some problems - understatement .cool.gif

QUOTE
The personal point section apart. Next cleaned the parts - ultrasonically and with q-tip and Koh-I-Noor pen cleaner. Ink residue vanished. The nib was now free to begin aligning tines and burnishing out the creases. This part was scary. Thought I might loose the iridium. Something or someone really put a twist on the tines of this nib. I think I'm okay though - fingers crossed.


Wrong wallbash.gif I did loose the iridium.


user posted image


Not only that - a second closer look at the underside of the nib after cleaning revealed that the clips holding the slider are missing from one side. Not no adjustable nib any longer.

user posted image

Mr. B and Mr. M - the nib nibmiesters - both advised sliders clips are the weak link on adjustable nibs. Costly to replace iridium and repair to clips not a task likely to be accomplished by anyone they are aware of. headsmack.gif

A replacement personal point nib seems to be necessary to get this pen running. Would dearly love to get an adjustable nib but they are very dearly priced if one can be found. Someone please tell me I'm all wrong with regard to that.

Win some, loose some. This one was tough to loose. Look and learn. Richard

#7 Wahlnut

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 20:40

Bummer Dude!

A number 9 is not necessary...a number 7 adjustable is more the right size anyway for the pen in question. Those could be had for from $125-150 for sure. If that is what you want, give me a shout.

Syd

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Pensbury Manor

The WAHL-EVERSHARP Company
www.wahleversharp.com
New WAHL-EVERSHARP fountain and Roller-Ball pens

#8 RichKen

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Posted 29 March 2007 - 21:33

Oh, it is a #9? Thought it was a #6. Message sent back channel.

#9 cuteline

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 00:16

QUOTE
Not only that - a second closer look at the underside of the nib after cleaning revealed that the clips holding the slider are missing from one side. Not no adjustable nib any longer.


It seems that your original picture also shows that the clips on one side are missing -- so at least it was not your fault.

#10 roberto v

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 20:45

IF the problem was only the slider, usually the nib can work also with just 2 of them, if the broken clips still have some material that can go across the slits...

#11 RichKen

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 23:47

roberto v Posted on Mar 30 2007, 04:45 PM
QUOTE
IF the problem was only the slider, usually the nib can work also with just 2 of them, if the broken clips still have some material that can go across the slits...


So if the nib were retipped, you think it could function as a flex nib with the slider pulled all the way back? That is what I'm primarily interested in. Adjustability is secondary in this case.

Richard

#12 Vintagepens

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 16:50

Before you spend the money on retipping, you might want to ask around to see if you can get a sliderless nib with intact iridium. I have several such myself, which suggests that others do too.

#13 RichKen

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 19:20

The WE Doric restoration continues going south. While working on the piston filler I managed to crack the section replacing it in the body without the nib installed. I know now - don't!



What are the chances of finding a replacement section? This section has the threads at the front for the adjustable nib collar which is different from the other personal point collar I have. Can anyone help with this?

#14 roberto v

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 19:44

QUOTE(RichKen @ Apr 17 2007, 07:20 PM) View Post
The WE Doric restoration continues going south. While working on the piston filler I managed to crack the section replacing it in the body without the nib installed. I know now - don't!



What are the chances of finding a replacement section? This section has the threads at the front for the adjustable nib collar which is different from the other personal point collar I have. Can anyone help with this?



Well, I think the best solution is to find a replacement from a broken Doric. Consider that even a desk pen of the same size could be the donor - so you have both section and nib!

Another basic, working but unoriginal solution is to find a section with the same threads and size in which the nib and fed can be pushed into. Unless you have lathe knowledge and skills....



#15 Wahlnut

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 00:47

Well, I think the best solution is to find a replacement from a broken Doric. Consider that even a desk pen of the same size could be the donor - so you have both section and nib!

Another basic, working but unoriginal solution is to find a section with the same threads and size in which the nib and fed can be pushed into. Unless you have lathe knowledge and skills....
[/quote]


In the interest of accuracy, The nib and feed are "collared" in the threaded personal point collar and the collar must be fitted with the adjustable nib, feed, shut-off and spring. So it is not a simple nib and feed replacement. Also, the Doric Desk pens may not prove to be a good source for the replacement section. They did not usually have the cross bar and threaded section as they were not vac fillers. Their sections are usually friction fit.

Syd
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Pensbury Manor
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Pensbury Manor

The WAHL-EVERSHARP Company
www.wahleversharp.com
New WAHL-EVERSHARP fountain and Roller-Ball pens

#16 RichKen

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 03:22

This is a bump to get back on the board. I've edited my first post of this thread to include the following. However it didn't show on the board. So here is a replay.

thumbup.gif I started this thread some time ago. The first response was from our moderator - the Wahlnut. thumbup.gif



Read through the thread and you'll see that I got my self in a jamb. However some BC chat with Syd and his offer to tweak the work that I had done resulted in a replacement section, adjustable nib, plunger washer which Syd installed and tuned after my attempts fell short.

Great communication, mentoring, generosity sharing knowledge, rapid turnaround, very reasonable charges and finally the necessary experience and skill to make all work in a pen which I now know to be more complex than I imagined at the onset. This FPN moderator cares about Wahls and about those of us that are interested.

If you are considering a Wahl or are having difficulties with one I suggest you consider discussing it with Syd, the Wahlnut.

The disclaimer - just a very pleased fellow FPNer with no affiliation. Many kudos to Syd and the Wahl Eversharp Forum


#17 RichKen

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 20:28

Bump for sotto2.

#18 MiamiArchStudent

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 22:56

I never knew Wahl made piston fillers! Are they rare?
What I'm looking for: Montblanc 132, 235, 422 and 432. Any help would be most appreciated.

#19 gyasko

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 01:08

I never knew Wahl made piston fillers! Are they rare?


Not particularly.

#20 sotto2

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 03:26

RichKen: Many thanks for the bump and PM's. The illustrations are very helpful. I'm gonna send mine off for rehab.

ekfh5f.jpg







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