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Line And Flow Variation In Time With Diamine Registrar's Ink

iron gall consistency flow diamine regisrar

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14 replies to this topic

#1 yixiel

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 12:31

Hi all, 

 

First, let me tell you this is my first post on this forum and I really love the community and the amazing richness of information available here. Thank you all!

 

After years of trying to find the perfect fountain pen + ink combination to be able to write on almost any paper including Moleskine with no feathering, bleed through or other issues, I bought many fountain pens, inks and notebooks and spent hundreds of hours experimenting. Recently I discovered iron gall inks and Diamine Regisrar's ink in particular,which I find to be an amazing ink for such situations. I can use a single fountain pen and write on any paper that comes my way during the day without feathering, bleedthrough or other concerns. 

 

However, I seem to be getting inconsistent results with it. When I fill the pen (a Pilot Vanishing Point binderized F or a Pelikan M215 EF stainless steel or a Pilot Urushi F) they write rather dry. After a couple of days (without flushing) the pens start to write very wet and much darker and saturated. The line thickness is double the size. This is the most illogical impossible yet happening miracle (curse) I am struggling with. In the worst case I would expect it to clog, not become wetter. I understand iron gall inks take a few days to reach a dark saturated color. This is not the issue. Examining the writing after a few days after the last inscription, I notice this variation too except now everything is much darker. (I can't really eliminate the possibility that the same sheet of paper could be more absorbent in different areas... but I noticed this phenomenon on several different brands of paper). 

 

I kindly ask you to help me understand what are my options, what is going on, if any of you has experienced this. 

 

Also, does anyone have any suggestion on how to ensure a pen on Diamine Registrar's that writes with a consistent ink flow all the time (on the same paper) without having to flush the pen daily. I want to be able to flush it once a week as part of the iron gall maintenance habit, and have 7 days of consistent line thickness, flow and everything else. It is inconsistent on the same notebook, so i'm not saying there are variations across paper types (which are more than expected).

 

Thank you so much in advance for all your wonderful suggestions. 

 

 

PS

       since winter holidays are approaching, I wish you all Happy Holidays!



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#2 amberleadavis

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:54

Read up on Sandy1's reviews, they are incredible comprehensive and she explains a lot.


Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

 

Want to get a special letter / gift from me, then create a Ghostly Avatar  

 

Ink comparisons:  The Great PPS Comparison  366 Inks in 2016

 

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#3 Zaphod_Beeblebrox

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 12:01

I thought if you use fountain pens you were to stay away from Iron Gall inks and other similar inks like the registrar ink.

I when to Richard Binders web page and he has a lot of info about inks and what they do to your pens.

I was both right and wrong about the iron gall ink but I will allow you to read his info and decide for yourself.

Here is the link to the page...http://www.richardsp...f/care/inks.htm

Edited by Zaphod_Beeblebrox, 21 December 2014 - 12:02.


#4 amberleadavis

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 12:06

I use IG inks - I didn't used to because they were often dry.  (I really prefer wet inks).  The color change on IG inks is something super fun.


Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

 

Want to get a special letter / gift from me, then create a Ghostly Avatar  

 

Ink comparisons:  The Great PPS Comparison  366 Inks in 2016

 

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#5 Runnin_Ute

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 22:34

I have only had a sample of R & K Scabiosa as far as Iron Gall inks. Not sure what you are seeing, but I don't think flushing weekly is necessary. I wonder if it is taking you  a fed days for the water in the fed to be gone and that is contributing to the darker color you are seeing. I think once a month flushing (assuming you don't change inks sooner) is more than enough.

 

I noticed Scabiosa was often very dry  - even in my Pelikan's which are notoriously wet pens and you want a dry ink in them.


Brad
 
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"None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain
 


#6 Sandy1

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 01:47

:W2FPN:

 

Hi,

 

Hmmm . . .

 

It seems that there is 'something' restricting flow which magically disappears a few days after the last fill; and the restriction is so great that the line width after filling is less than the native width of the nibs when used with other inks.

 

Please confirm my understanding.

 

Off the cuff, my concern is that there is sediment in the DRI bottle, and that sediment is being drawn into the pens upon filling. And the sediment is cleared from the ink path whilst writing, then the nibs write at a width similar to that when used with other inks.

 

As a starting point, please check for sediment in the DRI bottle: Let the bottle sit at rest for several hours. Then without moving or agitating the bottle, use a clean and sanitised [glass] eyedropper to draw a sample from the very bottom of the DRI bottle, then empty that onto a white plate, saucer or similar. Do a visual check for anything that is not liquid.

 

Once we know what you find, we can move along with more confidence than guesswork.

 

Also, please share your pen clean-up regimen between ink changes.

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 22 December 2014 - 01:54.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#7 yixiel

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:51

Hi Sandy1, after a kind contributor on this thread suggested I read your reviews, I went and read as many as I could and I found them excellent and very thorough :)

 

I am really thrilled that you took notice of my predicament and offered to provide some assistance. I will do just as you instructed and then come back with my findings. Also, I confirm your understanding. That is more or less what happens. It's not as dramatic as I made it sound, but it's very noticeable and annoying. 

 

Now that you asked about my cleaning regiment, it came to me that I might be doing something very wrong. Maybe more than one thing, so please feel free to provide me with corrective critique since I am new to iron-gall inks and I also admit to my desire for learning. I have 2 cleaning habits:

 

HABIT A: 2-4 days

 

Usually if the pen does not run out of ink after a few days I just empty the remaining ink back into the bottle and draw fresh (or not so fresh now I realize) ink back into it and empty it again into the ink bottle and then fill it up again. But now it occurs to me that I am actually putting some oxidized ink with microscopic debris back into the bottle. I thought it would keep the feed clean by "flushing" it with ink and also save some ink, time and many other things. Guess I was wrong. Also the "fresh" ink from the bottle is very slightly darker overall compared to how it was when I bought it half a year ago. It used to be an almost transparent vivid blue in the very moment of its writing and turned gradually darker as you would expect. It takes about a week to become a true blue-black, and it depends on paper and many factors. These days it's not so transparent anymore and not so blue anymore. It's more like a greenish blue-gray at the moment of its writing which turns just as blue-black as before but not in a week's time, rather in just four days and stays that way.The end result is the same. 

 

HABIT B : 7 to 14 days

 

Once every 7 to 14 days I empty the pen back into the bottle, then go flush it well with some vinegar-water solution and let it sit like so in this solution for about 3-4 hours. Then I flush it with clean water very thoroughly and that would be it. Using the pen with other inks after such a cleaning works flawlessly as if it were brand new so I assume there is no debris in the feed (after a cleaning like this). It's very likely that the debris is in the ink itself as you suggested. And it gets eliminated (because it's heavier) while writing during the first few hours or days of writing. 

 

Thank you so much


Edited by yixiel, 22 December 2014 - 10:54.


#8 yixiel

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 11:52

The first 2 pictures are with ink from the bottom of the bottle. The last picture is with ink from the top of the bottle. 





This last one is with fresh ink from the top of the bottle. It looks like no debris there.


Edited by yixiel, 22 December 2014 - 12:26.


#9 Sandy1

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 12:52

Hi Sandy1, after a kind contributor on this thread suggested I read your reviews, I went and read as many as I could and I found them excellent and very thorough :)

 

I am really thrilled that you took notice of my predicament and offered to provide some assistance. I will do just as you instructed and then come back with my findings. Also, I confirm your understanding. That is more or less what happens. It's not as dramatic as I made it sound, but it's very noticeable and annoying. 

 

Now that you asked about my cleaning regiment, it came to me that I might be doing something very wrong. Maybe more than one thing, so please feel free to provide me with corrective critique since I am new to iron-gall inks and I also admit to my desire for learning. I have 2 cleaning habits:

 

HABIT A: 2-4 days

 

Usually if the pen does not run out of ink after a few days I just empty the remaining ink back into the bottle and draw fresh (or not so fresh now I realize) ink back into it and empty it again into the ink bottle and then fill it up again. But now it occurs to me that I am actually putting some oxidized ink with microscopic debris back into the bottle. I thought it would keep the feed clean by "flushing" it with ink and also save some ink, time and many other things. Guess I was wrong. Also the "fresh" ink from the bottle is very slightly darker overall compared to how it was when I bought it half a year ago. It used to be an almost transparent vivid blue in the very moment of its writing and turned gradually darker as you would expect. It takes about a week to become a true blue-black, and it depends on paper and many factors. These days it's not so transparent anymore and not so blue anymore. It's more like a greenish blue-gray at the moment of its writing which turns just as blue-black as before but not in a week's time, rather in just four days and stays that way.The end result is the same. 

 

HABIT B : 7 to 14 days

 

Once every 7 to 14 days I empty the pen back into the bottle, then go flush it well with some vinegar-water solution and let it sit like so in this solution for about 3-4 hours. Then I flush it with clean water very thoroughly and that would be it. Using the pen with other inks after such a cleaning works flawlessly as if it were brand new so I assume there is no debris in the feed (after a cleaning like this). It's very likely that the debris is in the ink itself as you suggested. And it gets eliminated (because it's heavier) while writing during the first few hours or days of writing. 

 

Thank you so much

 

Hi,

 

You're welcome!, and thanks for your kind words!

 

As to your pen maintenance regimen, the only significant suggestions would be to use a small 'filler bottle' to avoid contamination of the main volume, and to decant the ink off the lees when/if sediment is present.

 

Unless your pens have very poor cap seals and/or you tend to leave the pen uncapped if not writing, I see no particular reason to use a vinegar solution [at 0.5% acetic acid] rinse that frequently. A weekly short soak of just the nib+feed with water should remove any dry ink and other detritus. Perhaps monthly is enough for the acetic acid rinse.

 

However, if you find your current regimen is actually necessary, then my suspicions about the ink / ink handling grow stronger.   

 

Also, please be aware that some aniline dye inks need chemicals stronger than water to be removed from a pen; and the most common pen cleaning solutions have some ammonia in them - not acetic acid. It seems to me that problems some Members report about I-G inks clogging their pens is due to inky residue in the pen that was not removed prior to using an I-G ink.

 

I don't think frequent use of an ammonia-based solution is necessary with a pen dedicated to an I-G ink. Yet, should the need arise, an acetic acid rinse should be done prior to use of an ammonia-based solution.

 

In addition. I-G inks degrade when exposed to light, so some of the things you described might be attributed to storage conditions. Then there's the age of the ink: it seems I-G inks have a much shorter shelf life than aniline dye inks, though my suspicion is that would alter appearance more than performance. 

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

Edit to add marginally relevant Topic: 'Will certain inks write finer than others?'
Waterman Florida Blue, Diamine Bilberry, Rohrer & Klingner Salix, Sailor sei-boku. http://www.fountainp...ost__p__2662018

 


Edited by Sandy1, 22 December 2014 - 19:19.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#10 yixiel

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 20:20

It worked. Filling with ink from the top of the bottle produces a much thicker line, right away :)

 

Thank you for your help and very useful tips!

 

PS

 

In terms of filling, in case anyone reading this might wonder, I used a syringe and since my Pelikan has a piston filling mechanism, I simply unscrewed the nib unit, cleaned the barrel and then injected the ink right into the barrel chamber. I only made sure the amount of ink is a bit less than what the chamber would normally hold to avoid a squirt when I screw the nib unit back on. I am not sure this is the best way to go, but it works for me. 



#11 Sandy1

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 23:19

Hi,

 

I'm glad that things are now going as expected. :)

 

As for filling the Pelikan as one would an eyedropper, you may find this how-to guide by the well regarded Richard Binder to be of use: http://www.richardsp...nfo/nibswap.htm

His site is a trove of information. And you already know the nibs he produces are outstanding. (OooLaLa!)

 

OBTW, I've been using a Pilot Plumix as a testbed for extended exposure to I-G ink with zero maintenance. I use it for a bit of jotting every day, and fill & flush with ink as needs be. Over one year on and things are OK. > Not advocating such treatment on a routine basis!

 

Bye,

S1


Edited by Sandy1, 23 December 2014 - 01:38.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#12 Clive-Andrew

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 08:47

Read up on Sandy1's reviews, they are incredible comprehensive and she explains a lot.

Hi to al, being new to the forum i dont wish to jump on someones post but where do i find Sandy1's reviews.


Edited by Clive Andrew, 23 December 2014 - 08:47.


#13 Sandy1

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 09:43

Hi to al, being new to the forum i dont wish to jump on someones post but where do i find Sandy1's reviews.

:W2FPN:

 

Hi,

 

After the board was restructured, I wondered that myself. ;)

 

My Ink Reviews are now found in the "Inks, Inc. → Reviews - One person, one ink" Forum.* (139 to date.)

 

Those IRs are entered in the Topic "Inks, Inc. → Reviews - One person, one ink → Index of Ink Reviews" http://www.fountainp...of-ink-reviews/

 

There's also some stuff in the "Inks, Inc. → Comparisons - One person, two or more inks" Forum. The indices in that Forum are works in progress. http://www.fountainp...o-or-more-inks/

 

If I've done an IR and a Comparison for an ink, I endeavour to include links to each in both Topics; and have posted a few summaries based on IR content. e.g. OOTT Summary http://www.fountainp...-ten-blue-inks/

 

Bye,

S1

 

__ __

* For large bore I-G inks such as DRI, perhaps the most relevant of my IRs to date is that for ESSRI, which s being greatly enriched by the generous contributions of other Members: Ecclesiastical Stationery Supplies Registrars Ink http://http://www.fo...registrars-ink/


Edited by Sandy1, 24 December 2014 - 08:20.

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#14 Clive-Andrew

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 12:59

Hi Sandy1.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Clive Andrew.



#15 Sandy1

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 11:42

Hi Sandy1.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Clive Andrew.

 

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

Bye,

S1


The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.






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