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Is This Sailor Nib Defective?

sailor ef needlepoint

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10 replies to this topic

#1 Kuhataparunks

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 21:33

I write very small, so I've concluded that needlepoint nibs best fit my writing style. I am always looking for a needlepoint stainless steel EF nib, as Gold Nibs have too much time spread which gives line variation.
The penmanship, Pilot's Steel EF nib, is very good for my tastes; the problem, though, is the stock nibs are always scratchy and need tuning (even after the break-in period). I was really hoping that a Sailor EF nib would be as fine if not finer than Pilot's EF. Alas, was I disappointed...:(!
Are Sailor EF nibs like Pilot F nibs? I've always heard, even from nibmeisters, that sailor runs FINER than Pilot,
so why is this sailor EF so broad? The ink is the Sailor Cartridge Black, and the Pilot has a mixture of AsaGao and KonPeki.
And yes I have verified on the side of the Sailor Nib that it says "E F." I ordered it from Japan, so it would cost half the price of the pen to return it, so that's not an option.
Does anyone know someone who won't charge the price of the pen($40) to tune it?
On an honest note, this Sailor Nib is supremely smooth and nice to write with, I must give it that :).

TL;DR: QUESTION: is this normal for a Sailor EF nib? My only guess is this isn't a genuine sailor product?

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#2 Icywolfe

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 21:42

Well I don't think anybody makes a fake Japanese Pen.


#Nope


#3 Betweenthelines

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 21:55

Here is the answer to your riddle:

 

Sailor tunes their pens to write far wetter than Pilot, who generally tunes their pens (barring certain exceptions) to write on the dry side.  The drier the pen, the finer the line, and vice versa.  This is also the answer to why your Pilot pen writes scratchy, and why your Sailor nib (and most Sailor nibs for that matter) write so deliciously smooth.

 

If you check out the tipping chart on Nibs.com, you will see that Sailor nibs actually have smaller tipping than Pilots.  Again, it is the wetness level you are reacting to.  The only way you will have a "needlepoint" nib from a stock, unmodified nib, is by having an overly dry writer, which I suspect your Pilot pen is.  The downside, of course, is the "scratchiness".  No matter what, a high amount of feedback will be unavoidable if you want a needlepoint.

 

Bottom line:  No, your Sailor is not defective.  You are experiencing the tradeoff between smooth, wet writing nibs laying down a broader line, and a drier, "scratchier" nib laying down a finer line.

 

My best suggestion to you, if you want the lovely qualities of a smooth Sailor nib, but a finer line, is to send your pen to Michael Masuyama (mikeitwork.com) and ask him to grind you a needlepoint on your Sailor nib.  You will surely love it, and I hear is needlepoints are very smooth, given how tiny they are.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Edit: Upon looking at the tipping chart, I actually see that what I wrote above is true -except- for the XF size - Pilot's is .2mm while Sailor's is .23mm.  So Sailor's is .03mm wider.  However, that amount is quite minuscule, and I stand by what I wrote.  You can see yourself in your writing sample that the Pilot is writing far drier than your Sailor.


Edited by Betweenthelines, 10 December 2014 - 22:01.


#4 Algester

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 10:28

Here is the answer to your riddle:

 

Sailor tunes their pens to write far wetter than Pilot, who generally tunes their pens (barring certain exceptions) to write on the dry side.  The drier the pen, the finer the line, and vice versa.  This is also the answer to why your Pilot pen writes scratchy, and why your Sailor nib (and most Sailor nibs for that matter) write so deliciously smooth.

 

If you check out the tipping chart on Nibs.com, you will see that Sailor nibs actually have smaller tipping than Pilots.  Again, it is the wetness level you are reacting to.  The only way you will have a "needlepoint" nib from a stock, unmodified nib, is by having an overly dry writer, which I suspect your Pilot pen is.  The downside, of course, is the "scratchiness".  No matter what, a high amount of feedback will be unavoidable if you want a needlepoint.

 

Bottom line:  No, your Sailor is not defective.  You are experiencing the tradeoff between smooth, wet writing nibs laying down a broader line, and a drier, "scratchier" nib laying down a finer line.

 

My best suggestion to you, if you want the lovely qualities of a smooth Sailor nib, but a finer line, is to send your pen to Michael Masuyama (mikeitwork.com) and ask him to grind you a needlepoint on your Sailor nib.  You will surely love it, and I hear is needlepoints are very smooth, given how tiny they are.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Edit: Upon looking at the tipping chart, I actually see that what I wrote above is true -except- for the XF size - Pilot's is .2mm while Sailor's is .23mm.  So Sailor's is .03mm wider.  However, that amount is quite minuscule, and I stand by what I wrote.  You can see yourself in your writing sample that the Pilot is writing far drier than your Sailor.

I dunno but I found my Sailor Lecoule to be dry and rough and in the end I had to sell it... <_< >_> since then I havent touched a Sailor pen (fude de mannen asides I enjoy using that one) maybe tried some but not tested the factory ones as more or less I have touched nibs that have been tuned maybe I'll give them another chance but eh... those exotic nibs... <_<


Edited by Algester, 11 December 2014 - 10:29.


#5 Zaphod_Beeblebrox

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 12:24

If you realy want a needle point see if you can get a Sailor pen with a Naginata Sai-bi Togi nib. It is extremely fine. I have this pen my self and it has the fines line ever, it also comes with a special tool to clean fibers from between the tines if needed.

You stated you did not like how the tines tend to spread on gold nibs vs. steel nibs, could it be you are applying too much pressure when you write? With my gold nibs no pressure is required and the weight of the pen alone is sufficient to write.

I will point out that you can say that this nib may, and I say maybe called scratchy, it is after all a needle point putting down an extremely fine line. I would venture a guess that it would be almost impossible to have so fine a line without being somewhat scratchy.

#6 Kuhataparunks

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 18:47

If you realy want a needle point see if you can get a Sailor pen with a Naginata Sai-bi Togi nib. It is extremely fine. I have this pen my self and it has the fines line ever, it also comes with a special tool to clean fibers from between the tines if needed.

the Saibi togi has been discontinued!!!:( :( :'(
I have this pilot EF and a Pilot PO nib. The penmanship nib writes a world smoother than the PO nib. I think it is possible for a needlepoint Nib to be smooth; the tip simply needs to be rounded the right way of course, no needlepoint will ever be as smooth as a pelikan broad nib(or any broad nib for that matter.) If no pressure is applied, then smoothness can be observed otherwise any pressure will result in a little resistance thus scratchiness.
Also, would you care to elaborate on this tool used to clean the tines? I would really like one for the PO nib I have!

#7 Icywolfe

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 22:22

the Saibi togi has been discontinued!!! :( :( :'(
I have this pilot EF and a Pilot PO nib. The penmanship nib writes a world smoother than the PO nib. I think it is possible for a needlepoint Nib to be smooth; the tip simply needs to be rounded the right way of course, no needlepoint will ever be as smooth as a pelikan broad nib(or any broad nib for that matter.) If no pressure is applied, then smoothness can be observed otherwise any pressure will result in a little resistance thus scratchiness.
Also, would you care to elaborate on this tool used to clean the tines? I would really like one for the PO nib I have!

My Justus95 on the hard setting is fairly a thin writer. But that is still a soft nib in the end so if you are heavy handed writer you will make it large.


#Nope


#8 Zaphod_Beeblebrox

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 13:49

Also, would you care to elaborate on this tool used to clean the tines? I would really like one for the PO nib I have!

Sure, it's basically a plastic rod with a very thin piece of metal embed on one end. And then you just floss out any debris that may be in the tine.

Here is a link to a photo of it.
http://www.pen-house...030/creaner.jpg

P.s. It came with the pen, not sure if you can buy it from Sailor separately.

Edited by Zaphod_Beeblebrox, 12 December 2014 - 13:53.


#9 Zaphod_Beeblebrox

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 13:51

the Saibi togi has been discontinued!!!:( :( :'(

This is a travesty! I'm glad I bought my when I did!

Edited by Zaphod_Beeblebrox, 12 December 2014 - 13:52.


#10 dkim87

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 17:32

You stated you did not like how the tines tend to spread on gold nibs vs. steel nibs, could it be you are applying too much pressure when you write? With my gold nibs no pressure is required and the weight of the pen alone is sufficient to write.
 

 

I agree with this statement. Sailor gold nibs are known to be quite firm too. I have never had any issues with my sailor EF gold nibs spreading at all, and I write with a decently firm hand as an lefthanded overwriter.



#11 Kuhataparunks

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 17:34

Five sent it to Michael Masuyama asking him to grind it to a needlepoint. Hopefully paying the price of the pen for such a modification will prove worthy :P!





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