Conway Stewart Back On Track ?

[Tancred]

Yes and no. To be really successful you've got to have people willing to do business with you.

 

If you leave a trail of corpses nobody would want to deal with you. The optimal strategy is a win-win situation.

 

People who think business is pure ruthlessness don't deserve to be in business.

 

Ok, true, but aren't we all jumping the gun here? This Caltagirone guy is just a businessman with an idea to restore Conway Stewart, which is fine. Let's give the guy time. I wish he hadn't made the announcement so soon before the business is up and running.

[Tancred]

 

built there (although JLR has built a plant in china for that market).

 

I'm not sure you understand what fundamentally british means. Many british products are the envy of the world due to the quality of the workmanship. Bentleys (still manufactured in Britain), Rolls Royce, Jaguar & Land Rover, Onotos, Parker Pens, and (formerly) Conway Stewart...

 

You're living in the past. British products used to be the envy of the world - but not any more. Yes, you still have a few niche players who cater to international millionaires, but the unfortunate fact is that labour costs in Britain are high and productivity low. Britain manufacturing has been in decline since the late 1960s and there are many reasons for that which I'm not going to go into now but are pretty obvious.

[Happy Harry]

The point here is, that a trademark is granted for a certain time, apparently normally 10 yrs, after which it has to be renewed at a fee.

If you don't renew, the trademark becomes free and can be picked up by anyone willing to pay the fees.

 

If CS Global Brands did not renew the name for the USA, they loose their rights there. Why they did not do that is not known to me.

Anyone can pick it up then. Nothing unethical about that. Of course if CSGB did renew for Europe, the one who gets the US name will have a problem exporting to Europe.

Same goes with patents. After a patent expires others can use the patented procedure free, unless you renew.

That is common global trade law, although no doubt there will be differences locally.

 

 

D.ick

 

CSGB did not hold a TM for the US, the last ended some 18mths ago and was held by a Virgin Islands business as in a number of other countries, not surprising that this had expired was overlooked. Regardless of the legalities of the situation it is unethical and simply designed to capitalize on the work in the US market that had already occurred, as the OP indicates.

 

It's opportunistic, it's a smart business move, and it also creates the possibility of 2 Conway Stewarts. You only have to look at the OPs web site to see he's already trying to link his incarnation with the original , of course he can't use recent CS because of copyright, which is a deceptive practice.

 

Ideally Caltagirone needs to acquire the TMs held by CSGB or buy a majority shareholding in it, as Brand Cellars (now in administration) owns 51% of CSGBs which has to dealt with (ie sold) then for half the value you could get control of those TMs. Tying up the CSGBs rights first ( or at the same time as US) logical, tidy up the rest of the global rights and the issues raised disappear. Still in this day of internet sales he could sell worldwide anyway, Caltagirone appears to be a very smart operator but really the CS name should not be subjected to ( or deserve) such outright trashing of it's heritage. It's the deeper issues that make this unethical not the legal.

[Happy Harry]

Of course forgetting to keep your TM up to date happens from time to time. Now if the Wahl Eversharp TM had lapsed would it be ethically correct if some one decided to take it up other than Messers Saperstein and Caltagirone ? I'm sure neither would be particularly happy if someone did !!. And the answer is no btw for the multiple reasons I've listed above...multiple times...

 

So if you want to own the Wahl Eversharp TM now would be a good time to apply for the abandoned TM...

 

Ironic that exactly what Caltagirone is doing to CS someone could do to him.

 

Now Mr. Caltagirone you've left yourself open to exactly the same treatment your giving CS, and it's common knowledge that the Wahl Eversharp TM is dead I wonder who will take it up? There are a lot of opportunistic people out there as has been demonstrated here.

[FarmBoy]

Having read this thread and the others like it, I think I know why Conway Stewart has failed repeatedly.

[Matlock]

 

You're living in the past. British products used to be the envy of the world - but not any more. Yes, you still have a few niche players who cater to international millionaires, but the unfortunate fact is that labour costs in Britain are high and productivity low. Britain manufacturing has been in decline since the late 1960s and there are many reasons for that which I'm not going to go into now but are pretty obvious.

 

A little unfair. The British Aerospace industry is the second or third largest in the world. Rolls Royce is the second largest manufacturer of aircraft engines in the world. Our Automotive industries (or parts of them) ARE the envy of the world. Other parts of our industry are in dire straights, the once great Railway and Ship Building sectors spring to mind. Even this is changing following Hitachi's decision to build it's new factory in the North East of England and move it's headquarters to the UK. So don't write us off just yet. Interestingly our pen industry has never been a world player, we have always been fairly small fry after USA, Germany and Japan (and more recently France). Also even this has changed with US quantity pen production finished and French production set to move to Poland.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Matlock

[Guernseytim]

 

You're living in the past. British products used to be the envy of the world - but not any more. Yes, you still have a few niche players who cater to international millionaires, but the unfortunate fact is that labour costs in Britain are high and productivity low. Britain manufacturing has been in decline since the late 1960s and there are many reasons for that which I'm not going to go into now but are pretty obvious.

A naive response.

 

The British aren't often after producing mass-production rubbish. Often we're after the differentiation market.

 

What on earth is wrong with paying staff a reasonable wage anyway? Bizarre.

[RMN]

Sorry to disappoint you folks, but British products have had not a good press here in Europe. British cars had the name to be prone to break-downs, just as Italian cars had the name to rust. British-Leyland/MG Rover etc had only marginal sales here.

Rolls Royce is ofcourse iconic, and now with BMW's Deutsche Gründlichkeit and British style they are quite good. Also some other iconic brands, but indeed no mass production cars.

 

Pity, as I am a real Anglophile.

 

The above discussion is, as it turns out not about someone picking up the CS brand, but about someone non-British doing so.

Nothing ethical about it, but patriotic reasoning. Which is fine, it is great people love their country. I had the same feelings when Fokker airplanes were bought by Dasa and closed almost immediately, and when KLM was bought by Air France.

I actually would have like someone British to have taken up the brand again, not someone from France or the USA, although I have nothing against either country. But I really doubt that is ever going to happen. I think the British home market is already served well by YOL and ONOTO, and smaller players like Dunhill and Italix.

 

A dedicated penfactory such as the old Plymouth/Don Yendle company is not viable any more. The only way a brand like CS could survive is in a system like our fellow member Fountainbel has with his CONID pens.

They have a very large construction plant that makes many industrial products, and they produce penparts on the big machines in spare time/ when machines are idle, and assemble them after normal work hours. The pens are really something extra for them, and no problem if pensales drop, enough other products to make.

I am not quite sure, but I think Onoto works on this principle.

 

 

D.ick

[Matlock]

Sorry to disappoint you folks, but British products have had not a good press here in Europe. British cars had the name to be prone to break-downs, just as Italian cars had the name to rust. British-Leyland/MG Rover etc had only marginal sales here.

Rolls Royce is ofcourse iconic, and now with BMW's Deutsche Gründlichkeit and British style they are quite good. Also some other iconic brands, but indeed no mass production cars.

 

Pity, as I am a real Anglophile.

 

The above discussion is, as it turns out not about someone picking up the CS brand, but about someone non-British doing so.

Nothing ethical about it, but patriotic reasoning. Which is fine, it is great people love their country. I had the same feelings when Fokker airplanes were bought by Dasa and closed almost immediately, and when KLM was bought by Air France.

I actually would have like someone British to have taken up the brand again, not someone from France or the USA, although I have nothing against either country. But I really doubt that is ever going to happen. I think the British home market is already served well by YOL and ONOTO, and smaller players like Dunhill and Italix.

 

A dedicated penfactory such as the old Plymouth/Don Yendle company is not viable any more. The only way a brand like CS could survive is in a system like our fellow member Fountainbel has with his CONID pens.

They have a very large construction plant that makes many industrial products, and they produce penparts on the big machines in spare time/ when machines are idle, and assemble them after normal work hours. The pens are really something extra for them, and no problem if pensales drop, enough other products to make.

I am not quite sure, but I think Onoto works on this principle.

 

 

D.ick

 

Sorry D.ick but, as usual, you have missed the point. I don't think anyone will worry about the country of manufacture as long as it is carried out within the law. This is clearly not the case with this attempt.

It rather amuses me when you mention British Leyland etc. You have a very good memory if you can remember those rust buckets. Now good old British (sic) firms like Nissan, Honda, Toyota etc. export their products throughout the EU. I wonder why the British made models from these Japanese firms outsell EU produced cars?

[RMN]

@ Matlock: What is unlawful if a trademark is not renewed and someone else picks it up?

 

D.ick

[Matlock]

@ Matlock: What is unlawful if a trademark is not renewed and someone else picks it up?

 

D.ick

The trademark does not expire until 2018. Did you not read the post from Martin at twdpens?

Quite aside from that an application for the trademark has be applied for BUT NOT YET GRANTED.

Peter.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Matlock

[RMN]

You are talking about the British Trademark. That is not in dispute.

 

But apparently the USA trademark is free....

These things go by country.

 

If the USA mark is not free, mr Manu will have a problem...

 

And perhaps he is selling the hide before he has shot the bear.... this has to be seen.

 

 

D.ick

[Matlock]

You are talking about the British Trademark. That is not in dispute.

 

But apparently the USA trademark is free....

These things go by country.

 

If the USA mark is not free, mr Manu will have a problem...

 

And perhaps he is selling the hide before he has shot the bear.... this has to be seen.

 

 

D.ick

 

Spot on. But British trademarks are legal in the rest of the EU.

We have two problems. If Manu gets his US mark (and it is IF) CS pens produced by him will not be able to be sold under that name in the EU.

But the real problem is Manu making his announcements BEFORE getting the mark.

Peter.

[RMN]

BUT, I think the current holders of the EU trademark would love him to get the USA rights.

To be able to really make a good company he would then have to apply for the EU rights so they will get some money for the name.

 

As it is, they have a name but no money, and I would be flabbergasted if someone from the UK would buy/lease it from them before 2018.

 

D.ick

[Matlock]

You are, no doubt, correct. But it still doesn't change the main problem of someone (in this case Manu) making an announcement before he has the ability to deliver. If I were to announce that I was going to build a factory and employ x amount of staff before applying for planning permission I think the powers that be would have something to say. Manu has announced that he is going to make CS pens somewhere (but we don't know where) without the authority to make that announcement. If he gets that permission and if he can obtain the world wide trade mark then I wish him well. However the way he has handled things so far does not fill me with confidence.

[RMN]

Sure. Perhaps an unwise move by him, certainly judging from the storm that has been whipped up by it here.

But no crime.

 

Personally I think the matter closed, but I am not going to close the topic. (for now??)

 

 

 

D.ick

[Matlock]

 

 

Personally I think the matter closed, but I am not going to close the topic. (for now??)

 

 

 

D.ick

 

I wonder what next

[pjford]

One minor point, is that Conway Stewart was not an old traditional pen maker. They went out of business in the sixties and were reformed ten years ago. Originally Conway like Waterman was a middle priced brand and not the expensive product that it later became. By the way I have owned the same Jaguar XJ8 for thirteen years apart from having it serviced it has been completely reliable and looks as immaculate as when it left the showroom.

[watch_art]

Yeah, Top Gear did an episode a while back showcasing all of the British made automotive/wheeled industries products, from heavy trucks/dozers to military to F1, and everything in between. They drove along the road in front of the Queen's palace ( I think) and it was really awesome.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346891/Top-Gear-The-Mall-200m-British-cars.html

[Matlock]

Yeah, Top Gear did an episode a while back showcasing all of the British made automotive/wheeled industries products, from heavy trucks/dozers to military to F1, and everything in between. They drove along the road in front of the Queen's palace ( I think) and it was really awesome.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346891/Top-Gear-The-Mall-200m-British-cars.html

 

Yes we have a great deal to be proud of in the UK. As an example the Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 team is based in the UK not Germany. However, as this is a Fountain Pen Network, I need to know how does a Mercedes F1 write? is it dry or wet? is the nib flexy or a nail?

I think I will quit now while I'm ahead or before D.ick pulls the plug on this post