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Conway Stewart Back On Track ?

conway stewart

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#41 MANUPENS

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 07:04

 

Not just the UK, but the whole of the EU. Until 2018. I don't know who actually owns the EU trade mark now, but it's not the OP.

 

Manu: you have applied for registration of the trade mark "Conway Stewart" in the USA. What happens if, upon examination by the USPTO, the registration is not granted? If registration is granted, what safeguards do you have in place to defend a challenge by the owner of the trade mark in the EU?

 

regards,

 

Martin

 

Dear Martin,

 

 

I did not intend to break the law and sell pens in Europe unless we can find a deal with the brand owners in these territories, which would be probably the best idea, rather than owning a brand and do nothing. let see the future...



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#42 Happy Harry

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 08:40

 

Dear Martin,

 

 

I did not intend to break the law and sell pens in Europe unless we can find a deal with the brand owners in these territories, which would be probably the best idea, rather than owning a brand and do nothing. let see the future...

 

That's hard to top....you've finally admitted this is an opportunistic grab for the Conway Stewart name but it's okay because it's "legal" (apparently in the US ...). No regard for the due process at all, can't you see how wrong this is? Or is this just a ploy to drive down the true TMs value down? to "scare off" other potential buyers by attempting to lock up the lucrative US market? No doubt you know exactly what your doing, ask your self the question about the moral and ethical issues of this. I'm sure the true answer won't surprise you because you already know it's wrong. But heck, making money's the real issue anyway.


Edited by Happy Harry, 04 December 2014 - 08:41.


#43 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 09:32

Companies are started, prosper or wither.

All over the world companies, thriving or withering, are sold and bought, or the remains picked up by competitors. Once proud WorPerfect made a mistake, and is now after having had some other owners part of Corel. The program is almost dead.

Nokia, once proud is now Microsoft. Car-companies are sold (once proud Opel almost died, Saab...) Supermarkets and departmentstores etc.

Penbrands are sold all over the world. Parker and Waterman have been sold and resold. Recently Cross changed hands, and Cross bought Sheaffer.

 

Don Yendl started a company and leased (or whatever other construction) the name Conway Stewart from the owners of the name, who were, I suppose glad they got some money from that.

The company started by Don Yendl did not make it, even after a restart. No chance (or microscopic chance)  that company will be resurrected. So the name is once again just that, a name. It is likely the owners of the name will accept money from a person with a good chance to give them good money for that name. That person may not have any connection with the company started by Jarvis and Garner. But have a look around you, how many shops hold a name of a person long gone and owned by international shareholders? Is there any Parker or Waterman grandson in Newell Rubbermaid?

Such is business-life these days.

 

I was not into fountain pens when the Jarvis/Garner company was still intact.So I have no click with that company. I liked the "intermediate" Conway Stewart. They made good pens. Like any company they sometimes had a problem, but that was normally solved. But sometimes Toyota or some other brand has to recall some of their cars. Things happen. Nobody is perfect. If Manu has a good business-plan, knows how to make pens, and makes a good product for a good price, they will sell. If that pen is called Conway Stewart: Fine with me.

 

Good luck, Manu, you/your product will be judged on it's merits.

 

 

D.ick

wise words again D.ick,

 

and absolutely Parker and Waterman once competiors are now Paris team members of Newell Rubbermaid...

 

I love my Parker Premier, I love My Waterman Carene.... Well and I guess I will love a CS if it comes back...

 

Would be nice if it is made in Britain.... But it is not a reason to start  a war over ( 100 years after...)

 

So Manu.... GOOD LUCK BONNE CHANCE.... :thumbup:

 

Well and as Pelikan is succesful wth more Affordable pens  (M200 M400 Etc).. 

 

I hope you can do so to.... this way I can Probably safe for more Conway Stewarts..

 

Regards,

 

Peter


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#44 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 09:35

 

Did you miss the bit about "did not buy the TM"? Again what about the actual owners of the CS TMs ? Cross did buy Sheaffer , yes buy. Parker and Watermans are continuing brands with an unbroken line of ownership, if you buy the actual company you buy the "history" or as commonly called the "good will". Has this occurred in this example? All he has to do is buy the IP from the owners, if he can't do that then he should not use the name because it's not his to use. Registering it in another country is poor form.

 

When judging what's right or wrong you need to look at all the facts. I'm surprised you would think this acceptable practice.

Is there need for judging?

Who is entitled to Judge...

 

I understand your thoughts but to me it is not worth cracking my head over it.

 

 

Yes Hope CS Continues

Yes Hope it is made in Britten and Keeps that touch of British heritage.

Yes I hope they are as lovely as the once from the past...

 

But some mordels more affordable please


Das leben ist wie ein Perpetuum Mobile mit ein Mangel..... Immer im Bewegung jedoch nicht unendlich. (life is like a troubled Perpetuum Mobile ever moving but not for ever)

Tricked throughout the centuries...

For centuries people had been tricked by kings & "religion-alism"

In the 20th century people got tricked by communism

Today people get tricked by (neo)capitalism  :) 


#45 twdpens

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 09:52

 

Dear Martin,

 

 

I did not intend to break the law and sell pens in Europe unless we can find a deal with the brand owners in these territories, which would be probably the best idea, rather than owning a brand and do nothing. let see the future...

I agree, it would be best to make a deal with the brand owners. But you should do this first. At the moment you have a US trade mark registration application; you don't actually own the trade mark in that territory. If the trade mark is granted, it is yours to do as you wish (leaving aside any moral argument for the moment) but you should be aware that you may face legal action from the owners of the trade mark in the UK and EU. If the trade mark is not granted, you have lost nothing.

 

Either way, I think you are playing with fire and an announcement like this is premature.

 

Good luck with your other ventures but I really think you should leave this one alone, at least for a while.

 

Martin


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#46 Matlock

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 13:57

wise words again D.ick,

 

and absolutely Parker and Waterman once competiors are now Paris team members of Newell Rubbermaid...

 

I love my Parker Premier, I love My Waterman Carene.... Well and I guess I will love a CS if it comes back...

 

Would be nice if it is made in Britain.... But it is not a reason to start  a war over ( 100 years after...)

 

So Manu.... GOOD LUCK BONNE CHANCE.... :thumbup:

 

Well and as Pelikan is succesful wth more Affordable pens  (M200 M400 Etc).. 

 

I hope you can do so to.... this way I can Probably safe for more Conway Stewarts..

 

Regards,

 

Peter

I think you and D.ick are totally missing the point (see the last post by twdpens), but only time will tell.

Peter.


Peter


#47 MANUPENS

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 16:43

Jaguar is part of Jaguar Land Rover, owned by Tata but built in England. It's not part of Ford.

Harrods is also still in London, just owned by the Qatar investment fund. These things are still fundamentally british, based in Britain.

What you mean fundamentally british ? is the market of Land rover or Jaguar is UK ? of course not, maybe, 3 or 5% of their business.. In France we have Peugeot and Renault, french names based in Paris... they produce 80% outside of France and their business is also 80% out of France...



#48 Matlock

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 17:07

What you mean fundamentally british ? is the market of Land rover or Jaguar is UK ? of course not, maybe, 3 or 5% of their business.. In France we have Peugeot and Renault, french names based in Paris... they produce 80% outside of France and their business is also 80% out of France...

That is all completely irrelevent. We are talking about ownership of the Conway Stewart marque, which you do NOT have.

When and if you become the owner of the CS marque, good luck to you, but I do think you should have kept quiet untill you have all the legalities sorted out (if you ever do).

 

Just out of interest Peugeot is part owned by Dongfeng of China (and the French Government) but that doesn't make them any less French.


Edited by Matlock, 04 December 2014 - 17:18.

Peter


#49 Guernseytim

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 17:59

What you mean fundamentally british ? is the market of Land rover or Jaguar is UK ? of course not, maybe, 3 or 5% of their business.. In France we have Peugeot and Renault, french names based in Paris... they produce 80% outside of France and their business is also 80% out of France...

 

built there (although JLR has built a plant in china for that market).

 

I'm not sure you understand what fundamentally british means.  Many british products are the envy of the world due to the quality of the workmanship.  Bentleys (still manufactured in Britain), Rolls Royce, Jaguar & Land Rover, Onotos, Parker Pens, and (formerly) Conway Stewart...  



#50 Stylophiles

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 18:37

 

built there (although JLR has built a plant in china for that market).

 

I'm not sure you understand what fundamentally british means.  Many british products are the envy of the world due to the quality of the workmanship.  Bentleys (still manufactured in Britain), Rolls Royce, Jaguar & Land Rover, Onotos, Parker Pens, and (formerly) Conway Stewart...  

Parker Pens?
"It was the end of an era this week as demolition was in full swing at Parker Pen in Newhaven.

According to local history website Our Newhaven, there has been a pen factory on this site since the 1920s, providing residents with jobs for almost 100 years.

But now the iconic factory, which has stood empty since 2010, is making way for homes and a community centre."

http://www.sussexexp...haven-1-6077777

 

Where is Onoto's factory?


Edited by Stylophiles, 04 December 2014 - 18:39.


#51 Matlock

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 19:15

Parker Pens?
"It was the end of an era this week as demolition was in full swing at Parker Pen in Newhaven.

According to local history website Our Newhaven, there has been a pen factory on this site since the 1920s, providing residents with jobs for almost 100 years.

But now the iconic factory, which has stood empty since 2010, is making way for homes and a community centre."

http://www.sussexexp...haven-1-6077777

 

Where is Onoto's factory?

 

Perhaps Yard-O-Led would be a better example. As you say Parker went in 2010 and even before that most pens were made in France. Onoto I believe just assemble pens from bought in parts. That is not a criticism, they are great pens, but hardly an example of Great British manufacturing.

I think the founders of the Felix Works would be turning in their graves if they could see what has happened in Newhaven.


Peter


#52 Guernseytim

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 19:48

 
Perhaps Yard-O-Led would be a better example. As you say Parker went in 2010 and even before that most pens were made in France. Onoto I believe just assemble pens from bought in parts. That is not a criticism, they are great pens, but hardly an example of Great British manufacturing.
I think the founders of the Felix Works would be turning in their graves if they could see what has happened in Newhaven.


Agreed :)

#53 RMN

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 20:14


Where is Onoto's factory?

Onoto has 3 production facilities spread over Britain. At least one in Kent, one near Gloucester, and I forgot where the third was. Each specialises on different pens.

 

 

D.ick


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#54 Tancred

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 20:58

 

That's hard to top....you've finally admitted this is an opportunistic grab for the Conway Stewart name but it's okay because it's "legal" (apparently in the US ...). No regard for the due process at all, can't you see how wrong this is? Or is this just a ploy to drive down the true TMs value down? to "scare off" other potential buyers by attempting to lock up the lucrative US market? No doubt you know exactly what your doing, ask your self the question about the moral and ethical issues of this. I'm sure the true answer won't surprise you because you already know it's wrong. But heck, making money's the real issue anyway.

 

Yes, money is the real issue!  This is business. It's harsh, it's cruel, but that's the way of the world. You live and die through money in business.



#55 Happy Harry

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 21:09

Is there need for judging?

Who is entitled to Judge...

 

I understand your thoughts but to me it is not worth cracking my head over it.

 

 

Yes Hope CS Continues

Yes Hope it is made in Britten and Keeps that touch of British heritage.

Yes I hope they are as lovely as the once from the past...

 

But some mordels more affordable please

 

Promoting ethical business practices is always good and well worth defending, we all benefit from it.

 

In this example you need to take the time and fully understand who owns various bits of Conway Stewart.

1. Conway Stewart Manufacturing ( a fully owned subsidiary of the Plymouth Pen Co.) produced CS pens using the name under a license agreement with the TM owner, Conway Stewart Global Brands

2. CS Manufacturing is in administration and being wound up.

3. CS Global is not in administration and still hold the TMs. The same TMs under which CS was sold globally including the US. It can offer the license to other parties or sell them if it chooses.

 

The last is rather important and the issue that some have with Caltagirone who decided he would like to become Conway Stewart without due process. Registering a TM that is already in use worldwide and had products sold under that TM until recently in US is without doubt unethical and in this case questionable as to legality.

 

I would think Caltagirone is well aware of this, in light of the facts it's rather easy to judge his actions.


Edited by Happy Harry, 04 December 2014 - 21:14.


#56 Guernseytim

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 21:27

 
Yes, money is the real issue!  This is business. It's harsh, it's cruel, but that's the way of the world. You live and die through money in business.


Yes and no. To be really successful you've got to have people willing to do business with you.

If you leave a trail of corpses nobody would want to deal with you. The optimal strategy is a win-win situation.

People who think business is pure ruthlessness don't deserve to be in business.

#57 RMN

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 21:57

The point here is, that a trademark is granted for a certain time, apparently normally 10 yrs, after which it has to be renewed at a fee.

If you don't renew, the trademark becomes free and can be picked up by anyone willing to pay the fees.

 

If CS Global Brands did not renew the name for the USA, they loose their rights there. Why they did not do that is not known to me.

Anyone can pick it up then. Nothing unethical about that. Of course if CSGB did renew for Europe, the one who gets the US name will have a problem exporting to Europe.

Same goes with patents. After a patent expires others can use the patented procedure free, unless you renew.

That is common global trade law, although no doubt there will be differences locally.

 

 

D.ick


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#58 _andrew

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 22:03

Perhaps a moderator could remove this thread from the UK forum?  It is painfully obvious we're not talking about a British pen company.  Just someone who is trying to use the name of a British TM in another nation in a moment of opportunity.


-- dreg

#59 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 22:56

I really drooled over many CS pens, but it was just another very pretty nail.

Had it a semi-flex...I might have started filling a milk bottle with money.

 

The original CS made non-exceptional out side a few pens like it's herring bone. There was a few but with a reputation of nail or regular flex at best....again in my Search for a Swan....CS didn't get bought.

 

The chance that CS will make a semi-flex nib for fountain pen owners instead of nail&semi-nail for ball point users is too slim to worry about it.

Yes, I really do like the springy ++ of a semi-flex. I can live well with a true springy regular flex like a Pelikan 200...

 

I am in a small minority that asks for a big with a bit of spring in real good springy regular flex or a tad more, like a semi-flex that Bock or JoWo could make...if paid for. I do prefer semi-flex....having 30.

 

I do have old Bock nibs with semi-flex, in both gold and steel. It's not that they can not make them, it's the amount that must be bought to make them.

It is the extra cost.....and for semi-flex 14 K is needed not the 18K of the nail. Education of consumers to the more springy 14 K would be next to impossible; with out real clever advertizing.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#60 Tancred

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 22:58

Perhaps a moderator could remove this thread from the UK forum?  It is painfully obvious we're not talking about a British pen company.  Just someone who is trying to use the name of a British TM in another nation in a moment of opportunity.

 

Who are you to say that?  The new company hasn't even produced a single pen yet.  Give them time and then decide.  Moreover, are modern companies not multi-national?  Pelikan is owned by a Malaysian group, Parker was based in the UK, but is now in France and owned by am American corporation.  Waterman was American, then French, then back as American, and so on. 







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