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Conway Stewart Back On Track ?

conway stewart

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#21 warblerick

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 13:53

Thank you, it is nice to see some positive comments after the harsh speculative spew from above. Let us hope for the best,

 

Post Script

I agree. Just a few short months ago, when we all learned that CS was going out of business (or call it whatever you like), there was nothing but moaning, bellyaching, and wild speculation, and hopes that one day someone might resurrect the brand. Now it seems that day may come, and what do we hear? More moaning, bellyaching and wild speculation!

 

I say best wishes for the new Conway Stewart, wherever it is made, whomever makes it. If it is a worthy product with a good business model, and good customer service, it may survive, but lets not bury the brand before it ever comes to fruition. I, for one, look forward to see what shapes up!



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#22 Morbus Curiositas

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 14:04

I agree. Just a few short months ago, when we all learned that CS was going out of business (or call it whatever you like), there was nothing but moaning, bellyaching, and wild speculation, and hopes that one day someone might resurrect the brand. Now it seems that day may come, and what do we hear? More moaning, bellyaching and wild speculation!

 

I say best wishes for the new Conway Stewart, wherever it is made, whomever makes it. If it is a worthy product with a good business model, and good customer service, it may survive, but lets not bury the brand before it ever comes to fruition. I, for one, look forward to see what shapes up!

 

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#23 MANUPENS

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 14:12

 

Oh dear....here we go again...a history lesson may be appropriate!!

 

The prime reason the last CS was unable to be offered as a going concern was TM related. The TMs under which the name was used was licensed from CS Global Brands, a company controlled  by Brand Cellars which is now in administration. This license was cancelled for whatever reason, suffice to say the TMs either had to be sold or the Brand Cellars stake in CS Global bought out to allow Brand Cellars to be finalized. It would seem the capacity to acquire the TMs beyond CS. Without certainty to the TM then the fate of CS was as seen.

 

The right way to revive the CS name is to acquire the TMs from CS Global, the wrong way is to register the TM in a different country. The right way at least acknowledges the hard work of those previous efforts to revive the name and gives credibility to the process , the wrong way simply aims to profit out of others misfortune. Mr. Emmanuel Caltagirone is also involved with Wahl Eversharp

Yes, I am involved with wahl eversharp and I am proud of that.

Eversharp was dead since Parker bought it in 1957 and we ( Syd and myself ) spend our time and money to make the revival of the name since 2012 and it works well and we work hard for that.  Do not be focus of the trademark itself , this is not the point at all, unless you are Montblanc or Cartier and can pretends of " trademark values ", MOST important is what you are going to do with it, and this cost much more than a trademark ! you can beleive me. Of course, as always, some people thinks it is better to do nothing...and keep it as it is...



#24 Matlock

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 14:29

Yes, I am involved with wahl eversharp and I am proud of that.

Eversharp was dead since Parker bought it in 1957 and we ( Syd and myself ) spend our time and money to make the revival of the name since 2012 and it works well and we work hard for that.  Do not be focus of the trademark itself , this is not the point at all, unless you are Montblanc or Cartier and can pretends of " trademark values ", MOST important is what you are going to do with it, and this cost much more than a trademark ! you can beleive me. Of course, as always, some people thinks it is better to do nothing...and keep it as it is...

 

If you cannot use the CS trademark world wide what will you end up with?

Perhaps the best thing would be to let Conway Stewart die with some dignity.


Peter


#25 Ernst Bitterman

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 14:58

I'd say this is a positive development; the revival of Wahl-Eversharp has certainly been worlds away from the vicious brand milking that we see in other quarters (Parker being a less notable example than Mabie,Todd's hideous revival or the current shenanigans underway with Esterbrook).  My only concern is that Manu will find the need to divide attention between W-E and CS too onerous... and I really hope not, given that what's mooted above seems to be the return of SC to its roots as a "Pen for the Million".

 

Good luck, bon chance, geluk, 頑張って, bona fortuna and various other well wishes!


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#26 Matlock

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 15:41

given that what's mooted above seems to be the return of SC to its roots as a "Pen for the Million".

 

 Aha. Now I see. Manu is going to call the pen Stewart Conway. Problem solved :unsure:


Peter


#27 MANUPENS

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 16:48

 

If you cannot use the CS trademark world wide what will you end up with?

Perhaps the best thing would be to let Conway Stewart die with some dignity.

Dignity... bankrupt twice, 2010 then 2014, employees not get paid, suppliers not get paid too....I do not see any sign of dignity on that.

Better trying to continue the CS story and I will try to avoid doing the same mistakes CS did in the last 5 years, first make the expenses in line with the sales. 

philosophically, it is right to say CS is british, but look around pens...range rover is Tata india, Jaguar is Ford, Bentley volkswagen, chealsea russian, and.....sacrilege..Harrods quatar !! 



#28 Matlock

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 16:54

Dignity... bankrupt twice, 2010 then 2014, employees not get paid, suppliers not get paid too....I do not see any sign of dignity on that.

Better trying to continue the CS story and I will try to avoid doing the same mistakes CS did in the last 5 years, first make the expenses in line with the sales. 

philosophically, it is right to say CS is british, but look around pens...range rover is Tata india, Jaguar is Ford, Bentley volkswagen, chealsea russian, and.....sacrilege..Harrods quatar !! 

 

Hmm. But you are still not answering the questions about the Trade Name. If you can't use the name Conway Stewart in the UK, what can you use?


Peter


#29 arran

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 17:51

I wish you all the best with CS positioning on the market
I have quite some new CS pens in my collection and with lots of them I had QC issues , which in the end were all solved by CS and the retailer
I always had the feeling that CS was bad organized and because of their amateur way of doing , their performance was far too low!
However i always loved the friendliness and the charm of the people
I hope that the new CS will show its britishness as the former one and more effective control will be a fact at the controlling the nib and nibunits
I had never the feeling that CS pens were overpriced compared to other übermensch pens on this planet.
I also hope that there will be a more interactive way of dealing with the customers demand and requirements e.g. Let the pens first be tested and given advice fore before launching on the market
Don t let yourself just be guided by the selling price
A good made pen , that is appreciated by penlovers will always be paid for , for sure

#30 twdpens

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 17:53

 

Hmm. But you are still not answering the questions about the Trade Name. If you can't use the name Conway Stewart in the UK, what can you use?

 

Not just the UK, but the whole of the EU. Until 2018. I don't know who actually owns the EU trade mark now, but it's not the OP.

 

Manu: you have applied for registration of the trade mark "Conway Stewart" in the USA. What happens if, upon examination by the USPTO, the registration is not granted? If registration is granted, what safeguards do you have in place to defend a challenge by the owner of the trade mark in the EU?

 

regards,

 

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#31 gary

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 19:25

I am surprised that zombies even bother with IP, or registering trademarks.

 

Why can't the dead rest in peace?

 

gary 



#32 Happy Harry

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 21:47

 

I think the administrators may have a different view.

 

No doubt, but it's all about money. Remember CS Global holds the IP of which the majority is owned by Brand Cellars (in administration), so what's 51% of the CS TM worth? The rest is owned by the owners of the failed CS who couldn't see the value in acquiring the TMs ( or where unable to negotiate a price). Sure if the TMs where worth £100k you'd see plenty of action but worth £2 or 3 k the cost out weights any benefit especially when funds would be diverted from creditors, a risky move if little to be gained. Of course CS Global may have already sold or be in negotiations to sell the IP and that passes the task to someone else who may well take a different view of the whole situation.



#33 Happy Harry

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 22:14

Yes, I am involved with wahl eversharp and I am proud of that.

Eversharp was dead since Parker bought it in 1957 and we ( Syd and myself ) spend our time and money to make the revival of the name since 2012 and it works well and we work hard for that.  Do not be focus of the trademark itself , this is not the point at all, unless you are Montblanc or Cartier and can pretends of " trademark values ", MOST important is what you are going to do with it, and this cost much more than a trademark ! you can beleive me. Of course, as always, some people thinks it is better to do nothing...and keep it as it is...

 

Nice way to start a business, just pick up a complete history to use with no connection at all to any previous incarnation...and then claim "do not focus of the trademark". Who are you kidding ? Looking at your web site I see pictures of pens that you have no connection with. Why bother calling the pens "Conway Stewart" if the trademark isn't , as you claim, important? Why not be honest about it, it has everything to do with the name as a marketing tool otherwise you'd make up a name like or use "Caltagirone"...would it make any difference to the quality of the pen ? No, but it would be harder to market. From a moral and ethical perspective you've done it the "wrong way" and that's the polite way of putting it. 

 

As far as the pens go I have no doubt you'll produce an excellent product.

 



#34 Happy Harry

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 22:22

I agree. Just a few short months ago, when we all learned that CS was going out of business (or call it whatever you like), there was nothing but moaning, bellyaching, and wild speculation, and hopes that one day someone might resurrect the brand. Now it seems that day may come, and what do we hear? More moaning, bellyaching and wild speculation!

 

I say best wishes for the new Conway Stewart, wherever it is made, whomever makes it. If it is a worthy product with a good business model, and good customer service, it may survive, but lets not bury the brand before it ever comes to fruition. I, for one, look forward to see what shapes up!

 

And what about the people who acquire the IP through the correct process? Who actually buy the rights to the name? So you just tell them "bad luck"? At this point no one is "burying the brand", someone is trying to jump the queue. Why doesn't Caltagirone ( and there's probably others involved) buys the IP ? That is the real question.



#35 warblerick

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 22:43

 

And what about the people who acquire the IP through the correct process? Who actually buy the rights to the name? So you just tell them "bad luck"? At this point no one is "burying the brand", someone is trying to jump the queue. Why doesn't Caltagirone ( and there's probably others involved) buys the IP ? That is the real question.

No idea. But you don't seem very happy Harry.



#36 Happy Harry

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 23:55

No idea. But you don't seem very happy Harry.

 

Lol !! More just asking the questions and pointing out the bigger picture. It's all too easy to look at these things and say " good on him for that" without considering the other side and who has a (potentially) loss. What Caltagirone is doing is a smart business move and has every prospect of success and to all but the diehard few care, reading the above most are supportive but does that make it ethically correct?



#37 RMN

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 00:24

Companies are started, prosper or wither.

All over the world companies, thriving or withering, are sold and bought, or the remains picked up by competitors. Once proud WorPerfect made a mistake, and is now after having had some other owners part of Corel. The program is almost dead.

Nokia, once proud is now Microsoft. Car-companies are sold (once proud Opel almost died, Saab...) Supermarkets and departmentstores etc.

Penbrands are sold all over the world. Parker and Waterman have been sold and resold. Recently Cross changed hands, and Cross bought Sheaffer.

 

Don Yendl started a company and leased (or whatever other construction) the name Conway Stewart from the owners of the name, who were, I suppose glad they got some money from that.

The company started by Don Yendl did not make it, even after a restart. No chance (or microscopic chance)  that company will be resurrected. So the name is once again just that, a name. It is likely the owners of the name will accept money from a person with a good chance to give them good money for that name. That person may not have any connection with the company started by Jarvis and Garner. But have a look around you, how many shops hold a name of a person long gone and owned by international shareholders? Is there any Parker or Waterman grandson in Newell Rubbermaid?

Such is business-life these days.

 

I was not into fountain pens when the Jarvis/Garner company was still intact.So I have no click with that company. I liked the "intermediate" Conway Stewart. They made good pens. Like any company they sometimes had a problem, but that was normally solved. But sometimes Toyota or some other brand has to recall some of their cars. Things happen. Nobody is perfect. If Manu has a good business-plan, knows how to make pens, and makes a good product for a good price, they will sell. If that pen is called Conway Stewart: Fine with me.

 

Good luck, Manu, you/your product will be judged on it's merits.

 

 

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#38 Guernseytim

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 00:27

Dignity... bankrupt twice, 2010 then 2014, employees not get paid, suppliers not get paid too....I do not see any sign of dignity on that.
Better trying to continue the CS story and I will try to avoid doing the same mistakes CS did in the last 5 years, first make the expenses in line with the sales. 
philosophically, it is right to say CS is british, but look around pens...range rover is Tata india, Jaguar is Ford, Bentley volkswagen, chealsea russian, and.....sacrilege..Harrods quatar !! 


Jaguar is part of Jaguar Land Rover, owned by Tata but built in England. It's not part of Ford.

Harrods is also still in London, just owned by the Qatar investment fund. These things are still fundamentally british, based in Britain.

#39 Happy Harry

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 00:46

Companies are started, prosper or wither.

All over the world companies, thriving or withering, are sold and bought, or the remains picked up by competitors. Once proud WorPerfect made a mistake, and is now after having had some other owners part of Corel. The program is almost dead.

Nokia, once proud is now Microsoft. Car-companies are sold (once proud Opel almost died, Saab...) Supermarkets and departmentstores etc.

Penbrands are sold all over the world. Parker and Waterman have been sold and resold. Recently Cross changed hands, and Cross bought Sheaffer.

 

Don Yendl started a company and leased (or whatever other construction) the name Conway Stewart from the owners of the name, who were, I suppose glad they got some money from that.

The company started by Don Yendl did not make it, even after a restart. No chance (or microscopic chance)  that company will be resurrected. So the name is once again just that, a name. It is likely the owners of the name will accept money from a person with a good chance to give them good money for that name. That person may not have any connection with the company started by Jarvis and Garner. But have a look around you, how many shops hold a name of a person long gone and owned by international shareholders? Is there any Parker or Waterman grandson in Newell Rubbermaid?

Such is business-life these days.

 

I was not into fountain pens when the Jarvis/Garner company was still intact.So I have no click with that company. I liked the "intermediate" Conway Stewart. They made good pens. Like any company they sometimes had a problem, but that was normally solved. But sometimes Toyota or some other brand has to recall some of their cars. Things happen. Nobody is perfect. If Manu has a good business-plan, knows how to make pens, and makes a good product for a good price, they will sell. If that pen is called Conway Stewart: Fine with me.

 

Good luck, Manu, you/your product will be judged on it's merits.

 

 

D.ick

 

Did you miss the bit about "did not buy the TM"? Again what about the actual owners of the CS TMs ? Cross did buy Sheaffer , yes buy. Parker and Watermans are continuing brands with an unbroken line of ownership, if you buy the actual company you buy the "history" or as commonly called the "good will". Has this occurred in this example? All he has to do is buy the IP from the owners, if he can't do that then he should not use the name because it's not his to use. Registering it in another country is poor form.

 

When judging what's right or wrong you need to look at all the facts. I'm surprised you would think this acceptable practice.



#40 Zaphod_Beeblebrox

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 01:34


If the high end market is overcrowded and caused the company to fail how will making a cheap pen under the CS name succeed in an already overcrowded cheap market? I mean everybody makes a cheap pen nowadays even ink companies are making cheap pens! And there are probable hundreds from China we don't even now about right now





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