Sailor Jentle Inks - New Formula?

[arcadeflow]

I remember reading somewhere that sailor inks are basic. While most other brands are acid. So in an u nucleated pen, mixing an acid and a base, will form a precipitate

 

Most, if not all Japanese inks are alkaline, such a pen would show problems even with the Holy Iroshizuku.

[Algester]

The only problem I have with inks is surface tension in my con-70... That but i bavent bought any inks prone to make the pen clog except for kiwaguro But then again I havent experimented with Kiwaguro if it really does clog the pen it does cling and stain though

Edited November 26, 2014 by Algester

[Blaine]

I purchased some Sailor Jentle Yama-Dori just recently, and I've noticed that it behaves quite badly in both my Lamy Safari and Lamy Vista. The ink runs dry EXTREMELY quickly—having been through several refillings and tests with this ink, I've observed that after ten seconds uncapped and not in use, the ink is faint for most of the first stroke; after twenty seconds uncapped, the ink is very faint for half of an entire letter; and after thirty or more seconds uncapped, it may take several downstrokes just to get the ink running again.

 

Even if I cap the Vista or Safari immediately when I'm done writing, after a few minutes the ink is faint to start, and after a few hours or more, again, several downstrokes, or even many downstrokes, are required to get the ink flowing properly.

 

If left unused in one of the pens for several days (capped), my sample of Yama-Dori will yo-yo between normal ink flow and none at all, and the only fix to get constant flow again I've found is to drain and refill the piston converters.

 

Note that numerous Diamine, Noodler's, and Iroshizuku inks of mine don't exhibit this behavior in any of my fountain pens. I can leave them uncapped on the table for minutes and they'll still flow just fine, no start-up required, and I can leave them inked for days or weeks with no issues.

 

In my Pilot Parallel 3.8mm though, the Yama-Dori never dries out and I can leave the pen inked for days or weeks with no issue. My guess is that this is because Pilot Parallels are extremely wet writers. Because of these experiences with Yama-Dori, I now use it only for calligraphy with broad-nib pens, at which it definitely excels. It's a beautiful teal with the signature red sheen, just wonderful to see on paper. It's too much of a pain to refill my standard fountain pens with daily and then have to scratch them on the paper constantly to get the flow started, though. Here's a sample I did this morning (I need to get my good camera fixed; cell phones are terrible quality):

 

http://puu.sh/fKs2z/25966414df.jpg

Edited February 10, 2015 by Blaine

[VivienR]

My Sailor inks from the previous line, and they are really on the top ink. They flow perfectly, even letting my pen uncapped for minutes, close up to ten minutes, they still writes perfectly, from my collection Sailor inks are the easiest cleanable.

[miatagrrl]

I'm currently using Tokiwa-matsu, Shigure (both in Sailor pens) and Yama-dori (in a Pilot Vanishing Point), and I haven't noticed any problems. I find all three to be wet, and they all seem to flow well even when uncapped for a while. Well, I should condition that by saying my Sailor with a music nib seems to dry up after only a short time of being uncapped, but I think that's more about the nib than the ink.

[Blaine]

Well, I've got numerous new pens and nibs on their way through the mail, including a 1.5mm italic Lamy nib, various other Lamy nibs, and a Noodler's Creaper flex pen. It's a bit of a pain, but I reckon I'll experiment with Yama-Dori in various pen, nib, and cartridge/piston converter/aerometric converter combinations. Perhaps Lamy broad nibs are to blame, although I don't see why they would be.

 

Yama-Dori is one of those special inks that caught my eye and which I knew had to have, so I'm willing to work with it.

[Davros]

Sometimes there's just bad pen-ink combos. One of my three Jowo broads hates Stone Grey. Normally both pen and ink are great - just not together.

[Blaine]

As promised, I tried out my bottle of Yama-Dori in various Lamy fountain pens (1 Safari, 1 Vista, 2 Al-Stars) using various Lamy nibs (B, M, F, 1.5mm italic), with both piston converters and syringe-refilled cartridges. I also tried it in a Pilot Metropolitan with a Pilot M nib and aerometric converter, as well as an old Sheaffer with a piston converter and a fine (I think) gold nib. I didn't try it in my Noodler's Nib Creaper.

 

No matter which pen or nib I used, or whether I used a cartridge, piston, or aerometric converter, the long and short of it is that my sample of Yama-Dori dries out extremely quickly and is a huge pain to get going again once it's dried. In some cases, leaving the pen uncapped for a mere 30-40 seconds (a pause to contemplate while writing) was enough to require half a dozen strokes just to get the pen going again, and often it would skip a lot too before finally writing normally again.

 

I also noticed that it's very clingy. It took a LOT of flushing with a syringe to clean the last few drops of Yama-Dori out of two of my Lamy cartridges.

 

Note that I've used several other brands and colors of ink with most, if not all of the pens, cartridges, converters, and nibs I used for testing Yama-Dori. I haven't had problems with any of them.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the rumors about Yama-Dori are 100% confirmed, and I will not be using it except in my Pilot Parallels. Even then, I'm worried they may need a lot of cleaning once I've used the last of the Yama-Dori they're filled with.

 

Maybe there are only some bad batches of Yama-Dori out there, and I was unlucky enough to get one. Who knows?

Edited February 16, 2015 by Blaine

[Erik Dalton]

I have read with great interest the comments regarding the new Sailor Inks. I have used sailor inks almost exclusively for at least the last five years. I love this ink and never had a problem with it. Then i tried some of the new colors and had a very similar experience with hard starting, nibs drying out, and seemingly clogged pens. A change the ink to non-sailor and the pens work like normal again. Right now I restrict the use of sailor ink to new pens or those that have only had Sailor ink.

Here is my theory i'm hoping some of the chemists among you can add some insight. Because this "clogging effect"(my term) is happening. Not in all pens, but it is going on?

Is it possible that some pen feeds absorb some amount of ink or chemical component that stays in the material that the feed is made of. Then when an otherwise seemingly "clean" pen is introduced to an ink like Sailor, that doesn't play well with others can it cause a reaction?

Are there residual chemicals absorbed in the feed material itself? Does anyone think this is possible. If so is there a fix?

 

Any thoughts from the pen Jedi out there?

[Algester]

I dunno but do a proper cleaning is really best advised maybe you can wash the feed in warm water just to make sure

[Erik Dalton]

Right now i wash out all my pens thouroughly with water, I flush them well with a bulb syringe. Sometimes new pens with a drop or two of dish soap, Really dirty nibs go in the ultrasonic bath of distilled water.

I havent felt the need to go to an amonia solution for cleaning. It would seem that would just be adding another chemical to the mix? For really gummed up pens bought on ebay, I've used Goulet's Pen Flush and the ultrasonic bath with good results.

 

Right now I'm using iroshizuku inks, and American Blue by PR. They perform well and are almost a color match. But they don't dry as quick as Sailor, or dry with the same matt antique finish that i love about the Sailor Ink.

 

I want to get back to Sailor as my everyday writers. I changed off of of it when these problems started, now I can't find a way to go back except with new pens, keeping them exclusively Sailor Ink filled.

Im hoping that in time this group think process will come up with a solution.

I can't prove it yet, but i think it is being caused by a chemical reaction. Sailor probably knows exactly what is going on, but so far has been silent. There are people out there like me who love the Sailor Inks and would use them as everyday writers but for these hard start, drying out, and clogging/poor flow issues. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot by their silence. There has to be something we can flush our pens and feed with to neutralize the effects of these dueling Inks. I'm not prepared to start experimenting with my favorite 3 and 4 hundred dollar pens. I am trying things with cheaper pens, with mixed success.

 

By the way. I just loaded up a brand new parker Frontier with Sailor's new Sky Blue in a parker converter that has had other ink in it before and cleaned. It's an awesome color. Almost identical to kon- peki, but with the trademark Sailor matt/antique finish. The pen writes like a fine-medium, so it has a pretty good ink supply going to the nib and is less prone to drying out. So far no issues at all with the ink. I've left it overnight, let it stand uncapped, it has started right up each time. It's only been two days now. I'll keep going with it and post my findings.

Is anyone else working on this?

[Erik Dalton]

Also on day two of Sailor Blue cartridge in never before inked Sailor 1911 Profit with a fine nib that writes like extra-fine. So far, even with the fine nib, not a hint of problems.

 

Looking for a recent previously inked pen that i won't mind mucking up..lol.. This should give an idea if the issue is residual non compatible ink impregnated in the feed system. It looks like that is where this is going. Will let you know.