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Mont Blanc Rare With Swastica Ands Scorpion Dpr 508058

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42 replies to this topic

#21 Michael R.

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 18:55

Surely fake as stated above :-(

Not a single part or material on the second pen look like something Montblanc would have used.


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Michael

Edited by Michael R., 29 October 2014 - 19:00.


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#22 Freddy

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 20:52

Every once in a blue moon this pops up.............Fascinatin' ain't it.

 

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#23 Gloucesterman

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 00:41

A friend of mine who collects historical pens owns the FP used by Von Ribbentrop who was the Foreing Minister of the III Reich (Yes, it is thorougly documented).

 

It is a plain black Montblanc without any kind of symbols.

 

I believe Von Ribbentrop was part of the German army during WW 1 and may have retained the use of his fountain pen for a long time. Although he may have been part of the Nazi party and administration he may have simply continued to use his own pens.

 

As for collecting that kind of memorabilia, given the true history of the atrocities carried out by both the Japanese and the Germans during the War, I really wonder about what people find so attractive about these items.


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#24 greensparcs

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:22

no country is free from committing atrocities of war.



#25 penhand

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:22

no country is free from committing atrocities of war.


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#26 greensparcs

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:42

Or the most Zealous



#27 Oranges and Apples

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 05:07

 

I believe Von Ribbentrop was part of the German army during WW 1 and may have retained the use of his fountain pen for a long time. Although he may have been part of the Nazi party and administration he may have simply continued to use his own pens.

 

As for collecting that kind of memorabilia, given the true history of the atrocities carried out by both the Japanese and the Germans during the War, I really wonder about what people find so attractive about these items.

 

I believe people who collect such objects of are doing it to spread hate.  It is another thing to collect something which is from the era or is historically significant but to collect a "fantasy" piece, there has to be an element of hate behind it.



#28 Morwen

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 08:47

Probably the same macabre fascination a lot of people have with serial killers - does not mean that the collectors approve of what these people did, but it gives us a (horrifying!) glimpse of what human nature sometimes hides inside...

 

P.S No, I am not a collector of such memorabilia, but I enjoy reading true crime novels, so I figure it is something similar.

 

 

 

I believe Von Ribbentrop was part of the German army during WW 1 and may have retained the use of his fountain pen for a long time. Although he may have been part of the Nazi party and administration he may have simply continued to use his own pens.

 

As for collecting that kind of memorabilia, given the true history of the atrocities carried out by both the Japanese and the Germans during the War, I really wonder about what people find so attractive about these items.


Edited by Morwen, 04 November 2014 - 08:48.


#29 TheRealScubaSteve

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 08:57

 

I believe people who collect such objects of are doing it to spread hate.  It is another thing to collect something which is from the era or is historically significant but to collect a "fantasy" piece, there has to be an element of hate behind it.

 

Perhaps in some cases, but I would think the whole purpose of knockoffs (historically accurate or not) are to trick people into thinking they are genuine artifacts with historical significance. I (and I assume most who replied, probably) took the OP to be asking if it was genuine or not. Now, the two U.S. parents who named their poor child Adolf Hitler would be prime candidates for spreading hate - perhaps some mental health issues to boot.



#30 Oranges and Apples

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 17:23

 

Perhaps in some cases, but I would think the whole purpose of knockoffs (historically accurate or not) are to trick people into thinking they are genuine artifacts with historical significance. I (and I assume most who replied, probably) took the OP to be asking if it was genuine or not. Now, the two U.S. parents who named their poor child Adolf Hitler would be prime candidates for spreading hate - perhaps some mental health issues to boot.

I did not even consider that the producers might have been trying to trick people.  I do not have a price point because, I do believe, that if a product goes beyond a certain value (personally it hovers at around $100), then some research should be done on my part.

 

And as the link I have posted, it suggest that it is a "fantasy" piece.  Fantasy as in there is a demand for such a product with no historical value.

 

But no, Adolf Hitler's parents had no direct effect on his direction, shall we call it.  But no, that wasn't the point.



#31 p#eschli

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 17:59

I second that. Yuck!

 

Sorry but I don't understand such comments. If it wasn't a fake, I would be interested in this pen. Having such a pen doens't mean you agree with what the nazi's have done, it simply means you are interested in pens.



#32 TheRealScubaSteve

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 21:34

I did not even consider that the producers might have been trying to trick people.  I do not have a price point because, I do believe, that if a product goes beyond a certain value (personally it hovers at around $100), then some research should be done on my part.

 

And as the link I have posted, it suggest that it is a "fantasy" piece.  Fantasy as in there is a demand for such a product with no historical value.

 

But no, Adolf Hitler's parents had no direct effect on his direction, shall we call it.  But no, that wasn't the point.

 

For a piece like the pens posted, I'd be surprised at anything below $500 and would most likely write it off as fake without doing any research. I'm a gun enthusiast as well and Lugers with swastikas fetch thousands - different arena, though.

 

I'm not sure if you understood if I did not mean the Adolf Hitler, but somewhat recently there were two parents that were brought to court by the state (I think) for naming their baby after the psychopath. Different point, yes. I can certainly see someone who purchases these types of pens to emulate or admire being hateful, but I'm not sure merely purchasing would necessarily be the deciding factor.

 

Does not really matter, I suppose. I think we can all agree that he is better off dead.



#33 aawhite

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 00:08

 

Sorry but I don't understand such comments. If it wasn't a fake, I would be interested in this pen. Having such a pen doens't mean you agree with what the nazi's have done, it simply means you are interested in pens.

 

I know what you mean.

 

It is completely understandable why the Nazis are so hated, but what about the others.

 

Many people collect Napolean Bonaparte items / memorabilia without any revulsion. Coming from Spanish origins, I put the man in par with the Nazis with what he did to the Spanish. The Spanish; however, also gave back to the French in similar doses.

 

I have seen authentic Japanese WWII samurai swords in the hands of collectors and oridinary people who inherited them from their grandparents. It is almost certain that they were used to execute their enemies when required. I have never heard of any revulsion to owning these objects.

 

These objects are not evil, but the people who once had them were evil. You can throw in all sentiments, but you know this is the reality. Personally, I have no interest in any memorabilia of any sort (not even flyfishing gear) simply because I have better things to do with my money.


Edited by aawhite, 05 November 2014 - 00:17.

I only have two pens -  an Aurora Optima and others.


#34 TheRealScubaSteve

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 00:28

 

I know what you mean.

 

It is completely understandable why the Nazis are so hated, but what about the others.

 

Many people collect Napolean Bonaparte items / memorabilia without any revulsion. Coming from Spanish origins, I put the man in par with the Nazis with what he did to the Spanish. The Spanish; however, also gave back to the French in similar doses.

 

I have seen authentic Japanese WWII samurai swords in the hands of collectors and oridinary people who inherited them from their grandparents. It is almost certain that they were used to execute their enemies when required. I have never heard of any revulsion to owning these objects.

 

These objects are not evil, but the people who once had them were evil. You can throw in all sentiments, but you know this is the reality. Personally, I have no interest in any memorabilia of any sort (not even flyfishing gear) simply because I have better things to do with my money.

 

Don't also forgot the Soviet Union who committed plenty of atrocities during the war, looted invaluable artwork from countries other than the Nazis and still to this day refuse to give it back. Or U.S. troops bringing back war trophies, for that matter. I promised myself I would not get involved in this thread. . .



#35 aawhite

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 00:48

 

Don't also forgot the Soviet Union who committed plenty of atrocities during the war, looted invaluable artwork from countries other than the Nazis and still to this day refuse to give it back. Or U.S. troops bringing back war trophies, for that matter. I promised myself I would not get involved in this thread. . .

 

I agree.


I only have two pens -  an Aurora Optima and others.


#36 Dj Shift

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 04:33

I collect soviet memorabillia but that doesn't mean i support some of the things done in the era. I just happen to find it a rather fascinating piece of a country's history. And i do so even though Stalin sent my great grandfather to a goulag for speaking out against the government (he escaped though).

#37 slippery when wet

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 04:41

 

I know what you mean.

 

It is completely understandable why the Nazis are so hated, but what about the others.

 

Many people collect Napolean Bonaparte items / memorabilia without any revulsion. Coming from Spanish origins, I put the man in par with the Nazis with what he did to the Spanish. The Spanish; however, also gave back to the French in similar doses.

 

I have seen authentic Japanese WWII samurai swords in the hands of collectors and oridinary people who inherited them from their grandparents. It is almost certain that they were used to execute their enemies when required. I have never heard of any revulsion to owning these objects.

 

These objects are not evil, but the people who once had them were evil. You can throw in all sentiments, but you know this is the reality. Personally, I have no interest in any memorabilia of any sort (not even flyfishing gear) simply because I have better things to do with my money.

 

Fly fishing gear !! where! :yikes:



#38 Icywolfe

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 10:31

There needs to a be a pen museum for fakes and that must show how bizarre that they can go to. This is up there in bizarre.


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#39 Pen Nut

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 13:14

A friend of mine who collects historical pens owns the FP used by Von Ribbentrop who was the Foreing Minister of the III Reich (Yes, it is thorougly documented).

 

It is a plain black Montblanc without any kind of symbols.

 

Really. Well if it is the real one this may interest you, or indeed him.

 

http://www.fountainp...ting-montblanc/


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#40 Wahl

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 20:05

Thank you for the link, Pen Nut, yes, that is the pen.

 

By the way, my friend is not a collector of nazi memorabilia, he collects mainly Montblanc, of which he has a very good collection, and whatever historical pen he can get at a decent price. Most are of spanish writers and politicians.







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