Swan Pen People

[Cryptos]

This listing appeared on eBay recently and made me pause for thought and realise I know nothing about pens really.

 

LINKY

 

 

The seller says that it is a Swan pen, and the body does say that it was made by the "Swan Pen People" of England... but the body is also marked "Kiwi" and the nib is marked "Blackbird".

 

 

So what exactly are we looking at here? Is Mabie Todd synonymous with "Swan Pen People"? If so, where does the "Kiwi" fit into the Mabie Todd aviary? Swan - Blackbird - Jackdaw - Swallow - Kiwi. Just doesn't look quite right to me.

 

Anyone able to shed some light on this?

 

*** I am no longer moderating this forum. Apparently having integrity is not a desired trait in a moderator ***

[lsmith42]

Cryptos... If you're not getting anywhere with your question here, try posting it over on FPGeeks... There may be someone over there that can help.

[pen2paper]

suggest looking for Mabie Todd KIWI - English manufacture sent to New Zealand 1930's (?)

 

edit to add, did you ask the seller how the date 1921 was determined?

there's a few Kiwi examples on the German pen board that state 1946

the photo from your link clearly shows nib, feed, clip, body shape, material pattern, clear imprint, so in Mabie Todd, Made In England "aviary" history find when they began export to New Zealand and match details.

not your expert, just quick observation

Edited October 15, 2014 by pen2paper

[Happy Harry]

Mabie Todd made the brands you mentioned in your OP, they are sub brands as such where as the Parker 51 is a model. Just to confuse there are American and English made pens. The pen linked to is made by Mabie Todd and is based on a standard Blackbird model from the '40s (?) most likely just with a different imprint and most would call it a re-badged pen for a particular market or client. As Swan was their best known brand the "Swan Pen People" is just to let the the customer who's behind the name.

[pen2paper]

Happy Harry defined this much better than I could. I start from Mabie Todd in NY. and then go to MT in England models, then rebrands to elsewhere.

The Kiwi/NZ focus is interesting.. I hoped you'd have a reply. There are FPNer's who reside in NZ and might have info.

Where I would start is the UK equivalent of the old American Stationer trade journals which might show UK business history Mabie Todd Kiwi to NZ news.. perhaps that's where the dates were found? The UK journal goes by another name, I don't have the link on this computer.

[birchtine]

Kiwi was one of the French Swan pen lines in the 1920s

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PUBLICITE-SWAN-PRODUITS-DES-USINES-ANGLAISES-DE-PORTE-PLUME-RESERVOIR-KIWI-MERLE-/360520942992?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_71&hash=item53f0b90590

 

I've been looking through some French adverts and am getting the feeling that French Swans were related more to the American than British Mabie Todd since the pens usually carried New York nibs, even in the 1930s. Anyway, they all seem to be quite rare. Over the last several months, I have seen only two Kiwis and two or three Merle blancs on ebay, and they were rather different from either Jackdaws and Blackbirds.

Edited July 3, 2015 by birchtine

[MarcShiman]

In terms of hierarchy of quality components in British Mabie Todd, Swan was the most expensive, then Blackbird, then the school pen Jackdaw. In the US, Swans were the higher quality than Swallows - my experience is that Blackbirds are higher quality than Swallows as well, placing them somewhere between Blackbirds and Jackdaws.

 

Merle Blancs are Blackbirds (same with Gaviotas in Spain) rebranded - in fact I have one with both Blackbird and Le Merle Blanc imprinted on the pen. Typically the Merle Blancs are stamped "Made in Londres". That Kiwi was also a blackbird (I won it).

 

When the UK operation registered, the agreement between US Mabie Todd and UK Mabie Todd was that the latter had control over all non-US markets. Nibs were made in NY until the late teens (even for UK pens)- so many of the BHR and BCHR pens are likely to have NY nibs. The celluloid merle blancs I have are equipped with Merle Blanc and Blackbird nibs. I've never seen one with a NY nib from the 30's.

 

The only thing I could think of is if 18k nibs came out of NY - the French won't let you call 14k "gold", it has to be minimum 75% gold. Perhaps they didn't work with 18k gold?

Edited July 9, 2015 by MarcShiman

[MarcShiman]

Most of the French ads from the 30's featured both Swans and Merle Blancs. I've actually never seen in person one of those flattop Merle Blancs. Hard pens to find.I believe the numbering is exactly the same as the Blackbirds, except they use the prefix MB instead of BB.

 

This is a Belgian ad from 1932, although I'm not certain of the publication.

 

 

[pen2paper]

Question for Mabie Todd UK folks.. In UK production, when we're seeing what is multicolored "plastic" are we seeing Casein?

[Cob]

Question for Mabie Todd UK folks.. In UK production, when we're seeing what is multicolored "plastic" are we seeing Casein?

No: I do not believe that Mabie Todd ever made pens from casein; the coloured pens are essentially Celluloid or some closely-related material. It is not affected by water but dissolves readily in acetone.

 

Burnham was well known for casein pens - and I had a very old Macniven & Cameron pen that was casein - also a Mentmore bulb-filler "Visi-ink"

 

Cob