Rhodiarama - Bitter Disappointment!

[Callique]

I'm on the search for a new diary (journal). I had a few at home that I'd received as gifts, tried them all, and very sadly, none of them were fountain pen friendly.

 

I'd heard about Rhodia and decided to try one of theirs. I found a Rhodiarama (green cover) in a local shop. Happy.

 

Happiness was very short-lived:

 

 

Totally awful with a flex pen! What a disappointment!

The paper is acceptable with a fine nib though I find the "chalky" finish seems to grab the nib rather than let it slide smoothly but when I tried some flex pens, it just doesn't work at all. At first the ink seems to sit on top of the paper but very soon it starts to seep through and make little blotches all around the letters.

 

It also comes through quite badly on the back:

 

 

The green ink is Diamine Meadow and the red is a mix of Noodler's Apache Sunset with some Diamine Ancient Copper added to it.

 

I know many of you will say that the Rhodia journals are the best so I can't tell you how disappointed I am.

 

I'm back on the search…. and to be frank, I don't know what else to try.

 

I like Clairefontaine paper so I don't know why this Rhodia book doesn't work for me. My favourite for writing letters at the moment is Clairefontaine Triomphe. Really great with all inks and fine with flexing too.

 

[Lyander0012]

Hey, Callique!

 

Before anything else: you have amazing flex calligraphy! I am very much in awe.

 

I find that my Rhodia 80gsm DotGrid works very well even with dip pens, so seeing this heavy feathering and bleedthrough on Rhodia(-rama, which I've yet to try) surprising. Hmm, would you be willing to humour a request of mine? Could you please splash a single drop of ink on the page, and wait for it to dry? Let's see what happens.

 

 

Cheers!

 

Kevin

[dragos.mocanu]

Although it's 90gsm, the paper in the Rhodiarama journals is different from the regular 80gsm paper you find in Rhodia notebooks/pads/etc...it's an ivory colored paper and more porous, hence the heavy feathering and bleedthrough when using flex writing.

[Callique]

Hi Kevin,

 

Thank you for your quick reply. I'm doing the drop test at the moment… and it's not looking pretty! Just waiting for it to dry completely before I show you a photo. I also tried with a dip nib, and it's worse! Pictures coming up.

 

(p.s. thank you but you can't be in awe when I see the gracious curves of your own signature!) :-)

[Lyander0012]

Haha, I was just wondering whether the poor appearance on page might've been the fault of the tines scratching through the coating on the Rhodiarama paper, thus my asking you to splash some ink on the page; on my 80gsm DotGrid, since the coating remains perfectly intact in this test, there should be little to no feathering or bleedthrough with non-troublesome inks. I wasn't aware that these notebooks used a different grade of paper, which would probably explain its less than stellar performance, so thanks very much to dragos for pointing that out!

 

And thanks! I'm still working on being able to write more than a single line of text with uniformity, so I've a ways to go yet. I am quite happy with my signature, though

 

 

Cheers!

Kevin

[Callique]

Hi Dragos, but I thought the Rhodia books were highly recommended for FPs - how can that be if the paper is so porous? It even feathers a bit with my fine nib (Sheaffer) on a capital letter or wherever there is a tad more ink laid.

 

Kevin here is the result of the "drop" test:

 

 

And here is another image, this time with a dip nib - amazingly bad!!

(the drop was still wet at that point)

 

[Callique]

I thought the same as you about the tines scratching and going through the coating but as you can see, the drop is just as bad. VERY disappointed. The book is practically useless to me but now I've written in it, I can't return it to the shop!

 

 

I also tried a Daler Rowney Sketch Book which is supposed to be good with Fps and inks but that was bad too. I have six books sitting next to me on my desk, all of them disappointing.

 

It seems to me when I was younger (I've been writing diaries for a long time) it wasn't so difficult to find books that worked well with fountain pens… because I have always written with fountain pens (all the way back to primary school).

[annettefhorn]

I've had the same experience with different kinds of Rhodia notebooks. I stick to the wirebound ones now.

 

Callique, I agree about the difficulty of finding FP-friendly paper. It doesn't even seem to have much to do with how expensive the paper is. I've had great experiences with pricy paper (regular Rhodia and Tomoe are my favorites) and not so great (Rhodiorama, Levenger, Moleskine, Ciak). I stupidly bought, on impulse, an absolutely beautiful handmade journal from Jenni Bick (http://www.jennibick.com/jennis-favorites.html) and of course it doesn't work well with fountain pens at all. (I highly recommend them for other things, though; they are works of art.) When I was a student I'd sometimes happen on some cheap-ish looseleaf paper that worked great with my $15 Pelikano, and then I'd get the same brand later only to find they'd changed their process or source and there was uncontrollable bleeding. I have Mead memo books I bought at the supermarket that work just fine.

[Callique]

Hi Annette,

 

You're right, it doesn't have anything to do with the price. Not long ago, I bought a really cheap paper pad from a convenience store when I was in France… that paper was just great!! I really enjoyed using my flex pens with it.

 

It's just frustrating because you can't tell by just looking and touching so you have to buy the stuff, take it home, try it… and then?? Most of the time, I feel like I've wasted money once again!

 

I'll keep searching. In the meantime I think I will have to make-do with one of the books I have as I can't just throw them away!

 

*Sigh…*

[benay148]

I have not yet found an ink I can make I can make feather or blued through on Rhodia top bound graph paper, or staplebound notebook. I frequently use flex pens and never have a problem. After a little research it has

(Luxury 90g ivory vellum paper, super smooth, acid-free, pH neutral)

Vs the standard

(RHODIA superfine vellum paper 80g)

So they are two different papers and I will avoid this garbage "rama".

[Kuhataparunks]

Wow what flex pen is that if I may ask? It's beautiful

[mhguda]

Callique - I feel your pain. That feathering and bleeding is awful, as you say. But your inks may contribute, too.

I recently - and stupidly - bought some Sigma notebooks, inexpensive Moleskine look-alikes, and while nowhere near as awful as yours, still they showed a bit of feathering and even bleeding with my regular and saturated inks (such as Private Reserve or Diamine). Then I tried my new Hero 232, diluted 1:1 on it. Surprise! no feathering, no bleeding. I did read somewhere that Irongall inks show much less feathering and bleeding, and I guess in this case that is true. I also tried my old formula MB midnight blue (Irongall formula) and again got the same result. So maybe there's hope for your notebook yet...

 

I also picked up a couple of inexpensive kid's sketchbooks a while ago, and the paper, slightly textured, very white, turns out very FP friendly.

Lastly, I have also found that if you store paper a long time, especially if you have high relative humidity, the paper does deteriorate and becomes more feather- and bleedthrough- prone. Maybe that's what happened with your notebooks...

 

I do hope you find one you like. Like other posters, I tend to find nice ones in unexpected places...

Good luck!

[them700project]

Ive had puddles on my Rhodia grid pads 80gsm and not had any bleading like is shown above.

In reading the descriptions The rhodiarama has 90g ivory vellum paper and the standard black and orange state superfine vellum paper 80g. Im guessing that "ivory" is the color not anything to do with the paper itself. Im curious if this was just from a bad batch? Have you tried other Rhodia pads?

[tinysnail]

I have a Webbie and an unopened Rhodiarama. I hope it doesn't go as badly for me! Maybe I'll do a comparison tonight, if anyone is interested.

[Callique]

Benay, ok, I may give the standard Rhodia a try.

 

Kuhata, thank you! The blue writing is done with a dip nib (J.B. Mallat, extra-rapide oblique), the green writing with a Konrad and the orange writing with an Ahab I just received very recently. The Ahab is the softest of the modern flex nibs I have at the moment (most flex).

 

Thank you Mhguda, maybe I will try a few more different inks before I give up. I do have one pot of iron gall ink but I only use it with my dip nibs (after seeing the effect on the nibs, I wouldn't put it in a fountain pen!). I've never tried iron gall ink specifically for Fps… but then what I like is being able to use all the different colours of ink I love so I really want to find the right paper! :-)

Good point about storage of paper too.

 

Them700, I have tried various Clairefontaine pads and notebooks but not the original orange Rhodia. The Clairefontaine were all good paper that work fine. I've not found Clairefontaine in a book format yet though. I'm now curious to try the 80g Rhodia to see how different it will be to the ivory 90g. The 90g feels very "coated", a bit like writing on chalk!

 

Tinysnail, I hope you'll report back if you try your Rhodiarama - I'd like to know!

Edited September 24, 2014 by Callique

[OakIris]

It seems to me when I was younger (I've been writing diaries for a long time) it wasn't so difficult to find books that worked well with fountain pens… because I have always written with fountain pens (all the way back to primary school).

I don't know how old you are, of course, but if you grew up in the days before the ballpoint pen took over the world, you know the paper was made for use with fountain pens. Most of the stationery stores are now just office supply stores; nice ballpoint pens are far down on their list of necessary inventory and you are lucky to find a fountain pen or ink for sale. Sadly, now-a-days, you have to go out of your way to find quality paper that will work with fountain pens. The vast majority of people these days use ballpoint pens, and ink from ballpoint pens, after all, will not feather or bleed through no matter how cheap the paper. I doubt that many paper manufacturers go out of their way to test their papers with fountain pens and correct the paper 'formula' to optimize it for their use.

 

I am sorry you are having such bad luck finding journals that will work for you. I hope you can find a 'regular' Rhodia journal that works for you; perhaps you could post back in this thread and let us know if you experience the same problem with it.

 

I did a quick search for Rhodiarama and saw that Brian Goulet did a review of the Rhodiarama back in 2012, mostly talking about all the pretty colors that were available. Significantly, he did not do a writing sample; seems that he may have assumed the paper was of the same fine quality as the other fountain pen friendly Rhodia notebooks, etc.:

 

Sorry I didn't include a writing sample on the paper, the quantities I have are limited and I didn't want to take one up just for me to use. They're the same 90g off-white paper used in all of the other Webbies.

 

Perhaps of more significance, they don't offer this Rhodiarama line of journals on the Goulet site anymore. This is a complete guess, but it could be that they received too many complaints from their customers about the paper, (or perhaps Brian or Rachel finally tried to write in one and found the paper to be quite as awful as you did,} so stopped carrying this particular Rhodia journal.

 

On the other hand, another reviewer really liked the paper, even for flex nibs, saying:

While Rhodia paper is very fountain pen-friendly, there was bleed through with a crazy wet, inky pen - my wet noodle Waterman. It still qualifies as fountain pen-friendly to me, as there is no feathering, which is more important to me than bleed through.

She made no mention of the feathering that you experienced, Weird. Here is that review: http://www.gourmetpens.com/2013/01/resor-shop-review-rhodiarama-blank.html#.VCNO-CtdX-k It was done in 2013 - maybe they changed the paper since then??

 

Could be this paper is best used with only fine nibbed pens without flex but as it is more expensive than the other Rhodia journals, I don't think I will give it a try. Thank you for the heads up, Callique!

 

Holly

[Baric]

Clairfontaine makes various sized cloth sidebound journals, they are pretty nice. Now my handwriting doesn't even come close to yours let alone use as much ink as you do with that beautiful flex writing, but I haven't had any problems with various pens and inks with that journal. The Apica Premium is also nice. The Exacompta is nice too, but the paper is toothier, depends whether you like that sort of finish. I think I bought mine from Goulet Pens, although I'm sure they can be had many other places.

 

I'm now in search of a nice A5 leather journal cover to use the journals in. Preferably something with a little stiffness as the above are all stock covered, and it's not very firm. (except the Exacompta). Besides, I like leather...

[tinysnail]

Okay, so I just took my (dot) Webbie and (lined) Rhodiarama, some of my wettest pens, and did a little comparison. From each, I took out a sheet of paper from the middle of a signature somewhere towards the back of the notebook. Both notebooks were purchased in the past few months so I would expect them to represent current stock.

 

Peep this scan:

 

Rhodia comparison by tinylilsnail, on Flickr

 

Thankfully, my Rhodiarama didn't perform nearly as badly as the OP! I was getting quite worried. Still, it's concerning that ANY Rhodia notebook would perform so badly. The only feathering I got was for the last writing sample, of the Nib Creaper with De Atramentis Violets, which doesn't surprise me because that ink's been a nasty feather-er. Performance on the Rhodiarama paper is slightly worse, but it feathered on the Webnotebook anyhow.

 

Back of the page:

 

Back of Rhodia by tinylilsnail, on Flickr

 

Again, a bit more bleedthrough on the Rhodiarama.

 

Conclusions: I think my comparison and the OP's experiences are enough to say that the Rhodiarama is certainly of lesser quality. Mine seems to hold up well enough that I am not too concerned about using it as a journal, but I don't think I would buy another Rhodiarama just in case I get a bad one.

[Callique]

Hi OakIris, no, we did have lots of ballpoints around when I was at school but I still preferred fountain pens, even at that age. I too had seen the review by Brian Goulet and was disappointed the review fell short of putting pen to paper! I wonder what he would have said, had he tried it.

With regular writing (no flexing!), the paper is pretty good. Not my favourite because I'm not overly fond of the coating which I can feel with my nib. But it holds up well to regular writing with a fine nib.

I hope to try a regular Rhodia eventually, soon?, and will report back.

 

Baric, thank you for your journal suggestions, I will check them out.

 

Tinysnail, I'm very glad your own Rhodiarama is proving much better and seeming to work well for you - though again, in your sample, the flexed writing is feathering. I like the look of Black Swan in Australian Roses, that's the old version, isn't it? Lovely.

(and feeling silly but what does "OP" stand for?)

 

I'm concerned now because I read on my supplier's website that the Rhodia webbies they carry appear to contain 90g paper and not 80g as you guys say should be in there!

 

 

Having said all that, and written some more in the Rhodiarama, I think it's certainly very acceptable for regular writing and that's how I write in my journals - I tend to save flex for letter writing and then I can use another paper which works much better with flex.

 

I also found that Diamine Damson seems to feather a lot less (hardly at all in the sample below - just a little bit around the "a")

Now I don't know if it's due to the ink or to the pen (a Creaper this time) so I will need to do yet more testing!

 

And with an italic dip nib, it was rather nice without any feathering at all:

 

So problem seems to be really with flexing and the pressure needed to spread the tines I guess. This must damage the surface of the paper (the special coating on this particular paper) and let the ink seep into it.

 

Thanks to everyone for contributing to this thread!

 

 

[tinysnail]

Tinysnail, I'm very glad your own Rhodiarama is proving much better and seeming to work well for you - though again, in your sample, the flexed writing is feathering. I like the look of Black Swan in Australian Roses, that's the old version, isn't it? Lovely.

(and feeling silly but what does "OP" stand for?)

 

 

Yeah, it's feathering, but that ink is a naaaasty featherer on nearly every paper I've tried, so I am not surprised. The other flex writing did not feather at all and trust me when I say those pens were laying down a lot of ink Still: it's Rhodia! You shouldn't have to worry about feathering, ever. The feathering you got is straight-up unacceptable.

 

Nope, this is the new version, actually. I never got to try the old one but this one is beautiful.

 

Sorry, OP means "original poster."