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1956 Pelikan 400Nn Tortoise With A Friction Fit Ob Nib


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#1 benincanada

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 12:31

Here are some pictures of my new (to me) 400Nn Tortoise with a rare friction fit nib and feed, which dates to 1950's or 60s.

 

0rLZ0Ek.jpg

 

Hx6WhNN.jpg

 

B36iUXZ.jpg

 

KQTQTWc.jpg

 

gYioutg.jpg


Edited by benincanada, 06 September 2014 - 14:31.


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#2 sargetalon

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 13:05

Benincanada,

That is a wonderful pen that you have there, one of my favorites. Are you sure it's truly a friction fit feed though? It's my understanding the friction fits we're only experimented with for a few months durning the run of the original 400 in the 50's and then again when the M400 was reintroduced in the 80's. Even then, the feeds I've seen still have a collar. Your assembly appears to be missing a collar. So while I don't want to be contrary, are you sure the collar is still not retained in the section via stuck threads?

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#3 Angela

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 13:09

Is there any way to tell without removing the nib if it is friction fit or the normal screw in?

#4 risingsun

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 13:17

I agree with Sarge... I think it is likely that the threaded collar is stuck in the section.

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#5 benincanada

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 13:43

I agree with Sarge... I think it is likely that the threaded collar is stuck in the section.

 

 

Benincanada,

That is a wonderful pen that you have there, one of my favorites. Are you sure it's truly a friction fit feed though? It's my understanding the friction fits we're only experimented with for a few months durning the run of the original 400 in the 50's and then again when the M400 was reintroduced in the 80's. Even then, the feeds I've seen still have a collar. Your assembly appears to be missing a collar. So while I don't want to be contrary, are you sure the collar is still not retained in the section via stuck threads?

 

Fascinating suggestion ... I thought there may be a collar missing when I initially looked...  how would you suggest I get the collar out - soak it overnight and see if it comes out ?



#6 risingsun

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 13:54

Often, the 400NN's used the clear polystyrene collar that has since cracked. They usually come out with a soak and a turn of a sharp knife into the collar, and then the recommended action is to source a replacement collar from a modern Pelikan nib assembly... Read all about it here:

http://www.richardspens.com/?pendoc=22

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#7 benincanada

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 14:05

Often, the 400NN's used the clear polystyrene collar that has since cracked. They usually come out with a soak and a turn of a sharp knife into the collar, and then the recommended action is to source a replacement collar from a modern Pelikan nib assembly... Read all about it here:

http://www.richardspens.com/?pendoc=22

Wow, you all are a helpful community - it was a stuck, and cracked, plastic collar - and after extracting it, a modern Pelikan nib fits in - so, I will do as Richard suggests. 

 

Based on how this all looks, any idea when this pen would be from ? It seems to be a 400Nn with all original parts, including the cracked plastic collar.



#8 risingsun

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 14:13

I think the 400NN was from approximately '57-'65-ish... I am not certain of how to narrow that up any further.

Edited by risingsun, 06 September 2014 - 14:20.

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#9 benincanada

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 14:22

I think the 400NN was from approximately '57-'65-ish... I am not certain of how to narrow that up any further.

 

Thanks !



#10 Matlock

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 15:04

Thanks for all that information as I have now replaced the collar on my 400NN.


Peter


#11 benincanada

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 18:30

I'm going to find someone locally to make me a new collar on a 3D printer... Any chance some at home hobbyist has designed a CAD file for this yet ?



#12 christof

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 19:17

Thank you for the pictures and the time you needed to take the pen apart.
Actually, this is what I have been thinking. The only friction fit Pelikan 400 nib I have seen was on a 1950 Pelikan 400 and it looked like this:

5472750263_7d70aba431_b.jpg

Interestingly, in the 1980's when Pelikan revived the 400, they did exactly the same experiment. Also for a very short time.

9233688420_fd0633bf6e_b.jpg

But note that both, vintage and modern friction fit nib units have a collar.

Thanks again.
Christof

Edited by christof, 07 September 2014 - 06:38.

. . . my current S A L E S . . .

 

 

 

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#13 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 19:56

Have one in green stripped, 400NN friction feed OF. Figure it's '56 then. Rare...know of two for sure; BeninCanada and mine. I think some one mentioned having one or read about someone knowing about them....after I got mine. :P

:angry: Was counting in using the nib for my '90's M400 tortoise. So much for plan A.

 

Had, heard of the friction feed '50 400....not of the '56. Shocked me when it wouldn't twist out....just go around and around, to I gave it a couple of wiggles and it acted like other friction feed pens. I've taken it out twice...don't know why I did the second time....greasing?

 

 I'd not heard about the  early 80's ones.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 06 September 2014 - 20:04.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#14 mitto

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 15:21

Have one in green stripped, 400NN friction feed OF. Figure it's '56 then. Rare...know of two for sure; BeninCanada and mine. I think some one mentioned having one or read about someone knowing about them....after I got mine. :P
:angry: Was counting in using the nib for my '90's M400 tortoise. So much for plan A.
 
Had, heard of the friction feed '50 400....not of the '56. Shocked me when it wouldn't twist out....just go around and around, to I gave it a couple of wiggles and it acted like other friction feed pens. I've taken it out twice...don't know why I did the second time....greasing?
 
 I'd not heard about the  early 80's ones.

I have just learnt that I have both the friction fit nib unit and the screw in nib unit M400s from the 80s. Interestingly, the screw in nib unit does not fit the section of the pen with the friction fit nib unit as it is bigger in diameter. Likewis, the friction fit unit is too small for the pen with the screw in nib unit.

In fact until reading, now, christof's post above, I was not sure the pen with the smaller diameter friction fit nib unit was a M400 although it looked exactly like the other 80s' M400 with the screw in nib unit. The pen has the same nib unit as shown by christof in his post above.

Bo Bo, it may be of interest to you that the M nib on this friction fit unit 80s' M400 is full flex bordering even on wet noodle. It has long narrow tines and flexes fully with a slight pressure exactly like the German Degussa full flex nibs you were kind enough to gift me.
Khan

#15 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 06:53

Mitto, I'm not going to chase W. German M400's in hopes of getting that nib. I'm glad you lucked out on that. I've not taken the nib off my 400nn to look inside to see if there is a collar stuck in it. Don't remember to do that.

 

I have a superflex (Easy Full Flex)...like the Degussa nibs I sent you, on a post war 100n...green ink window. Right foot Oblique.

Next time I get down to under 8 pens inked, I'll bring out that pen.

 

I tend to buy lately only at live auctions (get to check the nib), in often it's cheaper. Not as much as I use too. I think I have 'enough' pens....outside some I can't afford....'30's tortoise....or the sea green one.

 

But think the next thing I'm going to do is chase that Gmund 'beige beige' 120g in creme. A perfect paper costs E36+4 for 100 sheets. The 170g was as I knew only almost perfect, but I wanted some heavy paper.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#16 mitto

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 10:53

Bo Bo, mine doesn't say 'W. Germany' on the cap band. It says 'Pelikan' on the front and 'Germany' on the back. The only thing that tells me it is a M400 from early 80s is the combed feed and the lines on the nib not reaching the slit. Even the design/pattern of green stripes is like the one on the 50s' 400 and not like that on the modern M400.
Khan

#17 dnic

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 13:32

Have one in green stripped, 400NN friction feed OF. Figure it's '56 then. Rare...know of two for sure; BeninCanada and mine. I think some one mentioned having one or read about someone knowing about them....after I got mine. :P

:angry: Was counting in using the nib for my '90's M400 tortoise. So much for plan A.

 

I would like to see a friction fit nib unit with the nib ring of a 400NN, Bobo, please attach pictures.

 

It's always like benincanda shows, a nib and a feeder came out of the barrel and the nib ring left inside. The nib ring for sure has threads.

 

It might be interested to have a look at the different Pelikan nib units from 1929:

 

https://www.pelikan-...heading_toc_j_8

 

Dominic



#18 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 22:14

I haven't even looked inside lately much less tried to make a picture.

 

Mitto, could that nib have been from the '50's....or even a post war 100n? Well I don't know if that fits, I'd have to check that out...in the morning.

 

There are a few different '50's nibs..


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany      Info on Bock nibs

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#19 Oobly

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 06:03

In case anyone is interested, the nib in the OP's pen is a late one, 1964 onwards. If it is original it dates the pen to 1964 to 1965 when they stopped production of the NN.

 

In any case, it's a beautiful one, nice rich coloured binde. Of the two tortoise NNs I own, one is similar to this (which I searched for for a while), but the other is very bland. Some say the rare Merz & Krell Brown Tortoise 400NN from the '70s has the nicest binde... I have yet to find one of those.


Edited by Oobly, 05 June 2017 - 06:06.







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