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Kaweco Al Eyedropper - Going For It


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#21 Jumpmonkey

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 20:19

Sharmon202

 

Private Reserve: Ebony Purple


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#22 Ink Stained Wretch

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 20:41

Ink Stained Wretch,

 

Cool deal, got a link to the aluminum/ink demonstrations? I'm still going through with it, for the sake of science! Granted, it may be grade school science, where the experiment has already been done to death by real scientists. But I am still happy to do my 3rd grade science fair project. Besides, maybe no-one has tested P.R. Ebony Purple. Maybe it's the one un-coated-aluminum-friendly ink out there.

 

There are two Web pages.

 

One is here.

 

Ad the other is here.


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#23 Jumpmonkey

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 21:44

Thanks for the links Wretch!


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#24 mhguda

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 22:58

Maybe you could coat the inside of your barrel with something that the ink won't touch and which will protect the aluminum. Nail polish or some such comes to mind. Your pen might live longer. You'd have to take care not to coat the threads though... or they might be permanently connected. So a weak point in the assembly is inevitable.


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#25 Tweel

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 23:04

...my experience of ink and aluminum is that the oxidized metal tends to deform as well as pit; it puffs up!.

 

I had a hell of a time with one of my bicycles, where the manufacturer put aluminum pedal cranks onto a steel shaft.  The AL did its sacrificial anode thing, and it was a real battle to get those cranks off!

 

P.R. Ebony Purple. Maybe it's the one un-coated-aluminum-friendly ink out there.

 

Going with pH-neutral inks by Noodler's, PR, etc. is a good idea.

 

A bad idea, BTW, is soaking an aluminum pen in an ammonia solution.  It's basic rather than acidic, but will also eat the metal.

 

Good luck!  I won't do this with my AL Sport -- I paid full retail.


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#26 Jumpmonkey

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 00:41

Tweel,

 

Ouch, did it toast your BB too? or were you able to salvage it?

 

I don't expect anyone else would take such a plunge. Paid full retail for mine too. But with one pen, I'm burned out a Kaweco.


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#27 Jumpmonkey

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 02:27

I figured I'd update:

 

One full week inked with Private Reserve Ebony Purple. The pen still writes fine appart from the Kaweco skip, been too lazy to try and fix the nib. The skip is intermitent so, w/e. Anyhow, on to what matters. There's been ink in the threads, meant to clean it out and re-grease, way too much going on and I forgot to get around to it. The threads are absolutely fine, unscrews as well as ever. Inside the aluminum body there are no signs of any damage. I used almost all the ink and just dumped the last few drops to see if there was any hidden damage, again, nothing.

 

So far, so good. Time to re-ink. Tempted to switch to 54th Mass, but I think I'll stick with Ebony Purple a little longer.


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#28 KBeezie

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 04:33

I'd be curious to see how it works out. My main issue with it, is that the threading for the section down into the barrel is pretty deep, so not quite as easy to grease up the threads, and put in just the right amount of ink as not to get any caught up above the threading, especially when you go to refill. 

 

I'd do it in a classic sport, but not my AL Sport. Sounds like something I'd do in my Pilot Petit1, cheap enough to risk, and I can see what's going on. 

 

 

I figured I'd update:

 

One full week inked with Private Reserve Ebony Purple. The pen still writes fine appart from the Kaweco skip, been too lazy to try and fix the nib. The skip is intermitent so, w/e. Anyhow, on to what matters. There's been ink in the threads, meant to clean it out and re-grease, way too much going on and I forgot to get around to it. The threads are absolutely fine, unscrews as well as ever. Inside the aluminum body there are no signs of any damage. I used almost all the ink and just dumped the last few drops to see if there was any hidden damage, again, nothing.

 

So far, so good. Time to re-ink. Tempted to switch to 54th Mass, but I think I'll stick with Ebony Purple a little longer.

 
One full week is not a very long time unless you're Calligraphy ink with shellac/etc, which of course would clog up the feed anyways. I think you'd need to go about 6 months to a year to really notice depending on how aggressive the ink is. 
 
Edit: I wonder if it would be worse if the pen's body was brass, and would stainless steel be better than aluminum (though be a bit heavier)? 

Edited by KBeezie, 19 August 2014 - 04:40.


#29 Jumpmonkey

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 00:33

I'm not sure how other metals would react, I'm sure some level of research could be done prior to any experimentation.

 

I do not dare offer anything along the line of "Results" one week is a terribly short period of time. At the same time, I've seen things like moisture on carbon steel, and that stuff evidences it's destruction QUICKLY (within a couple hours, probably sooner, it's just usually a while between making a sandwich and realizing I didn't wipe all the water off the knife after rinsing.) Then there was the, I have a cheap pocket knife and am at the ocean... how bad is salt water on steel? Answer, utterly, perhaps even hilariously ruinous.

 

So in that vain, one week is a worthy marker. Not a conclusion, but a step.


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#30 OakIris

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 01:04

The Kaweco AL Sport is on my wishlist, though I wish they would make a model with a piston fill like their vintage pens.  I have read positive things about the Sport in specific and Kaweco pens in general, so I am surprised that you have had problems with the nib, etc., and just plain don't like the pen.

 

I wish you had sent your Kaweco to me instead of deciding to send it to an untimely death.  :P

 

Holly



#31 KBeezie

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 01:12

The Kaweco AL Sport is on my wishlist, though I wish they would make a model with a piston fill like their vintage pens.  I have read positive things about the Sport in specific and Kaweco pens in general, so I am surprised that you have had problems with the nib, etc., and just plain don't like the pen.

 

I wish you had sent your Kaweco to me instead of deciding to send it to an untimely death.   :P

 

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Well if you don't mind spending over $600 you can get a Kaweco with a piston filling mechanism...

 

http://www.jetpens.c...e-Body/pd/10453

 

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#32 Jumpmonkey

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 01:57

That's amazing and yet, atrocious. I just don't see $600 for a pen. I appreciate design and manufacturing and materials, and even making a profit off of one's goods, but that piston system better be made of myrrh and gold, possibly also some frankincense.


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#33 Ink Stained Wretch

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:45

 

I'd do it in a classic sport, but not my AL Sport.

 

Doing it in a Kaweco Sport Classic is trivial. I think Nathan Tardif was selling that conversion some years ago.

 

 

I think you'd need to go about 6 months to a year to really notice depending on how aggressive the ink is.

 

I think that the ink would have to be very mild to take that long to have an effect. I think there are municipal water supplies that would show an effect on aluminum in a shorter time than that.

 

 

I wonder if it would be worse if the pen's body was brass, and would stainless steel be better than aluminum (though be a bit heavier)?

 

Brass would probably go pretty quickly, how quickly I don't know, probably depend on the percentage of copper in the mixture. The zinc would be the first thing to corrode and go away. The copper would change colors, and take up more room, but maybe with some inks it could last. I wouldn't want to try it on a pen I wanted to keep.

I think aluminum would go sooner than brass with exposure to the same ink.

 

Stainless steel I think wold have a good chance of lasting. It'd depend on the stainless steel, of course. I've seen some stainless steels that actually began to rust out pretty quickly.

 

Caveat: I am not a chemist. I have watched aluminum corrode in my youth, however. I have also read lots of sad stories from radio operators from long ago about how that nice, inexpensive aluminum grounding rod simply disappeared into the soil it had been driven into. And then there's the occasional unfortunate interaction between aluminum pots and pans and some detergents.


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#34 KBeezie

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 05:45

 

Doing it in a Kaweco Sport Classic is trivial. I think Nathan Tardif was selling that conversion some years ago.

 

 

I think that the ink would have to be very mild to take that long to have an effect. I think there are municipal water supplies that would show an effect on aluminum in a shorter time than that.

 

 

Brass would probably go pretty quickly, how quickly I don't know, probably depend on the percentage of copper in the mixture. The zinc would be the first thing to corrode and go away. The copper would change colors, and take up more room, but maybe with some inks it could last. I wouldn't want to try it on a pen I wanted to keep.

I think aluminum would go sooner than brass with exposure to the same ink.

 

Stainless steel I think wold have a good chance of lasting. It'd depend on the stainless steel, of course. I've seen some stainless steels that actually began to rust out pretty quickly.

 

Caveat: I am not a chemist. I have watched aluminum corrode in my youth, however. I have also read lots of sad stories from radio operators from long ago about how that nice, inexpensive aluminum grounding rod simply disappeared into the soil it had been driven into. And then there's the occasional unfortunate interaction between aluminum pots and pans and some detergents.

 

Chemist or not, it's interesting information. Just wasn't sure if Aluminum oxidizes or not. But I do know that a good number of inks have some degree of acidity. 

 

For example I'm not sure what the caps are made of on the Caran d'Ache bottles, but seems like in submersion/constant-contact it didn't take that long for it to eat past the nickle plating and then into the cap itself (which I'm guessing could be aluminum, but it seems heavier than aluminum). 

 

caran_clean5.jpg

 

... now I have an obsession to know for sure... dammit. lol. 



#35 Ernst Bitterman

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 15:32

 

 

I'd do it in a classic sport, but not my AL Sport. Sounds like something I'd do in my Pilot Petit1, cheap enough to risk, and I can see what's going on. 

 

 

I gave it a try, and with just grease (and lots of it) it wasn't holding; the threads are too rounded and coarse.  I never got around to looking into fitting an o-ring, which should do the trick.


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#36 OakIris

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 17:30

 

Well if you don't mind spending over $600 you can get a Kaweco with a piston filling mechanism...

 

http://www.jetpens.c...e-Body/pd/10453

 

47522.jpg

 

47523.jpg

 

47528.jpg

 

Hmmm, I'm not sure I really like the way it looks, but I can say that, to me, that is an exorbitant/ridiculous price, and certainly not worth it - again, just my opinion.  What I would much prefer to do is spend $500 less and buy one of the vintage piston filler Kaweco Sport's from the 1930's; one of those is on my wish list, too.  (Somehow, more things make their way onto my wish list than get crossed off; I am never going to catch up!)

 

Holly


Edited by OakIris, 20 August 2014 - 17:35.


#37 Jumpmonkey

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 17:46

... now I have an obsession to know for sure... dammit. lol. 

 

Doomed to failure or not, I am enjoying my experimentation. There has been only one negative result. Whereas I absolutely hated my Kaweco AL when began, I have sort of begun cheering for it. "Keep going! Don't corrode! You can do it!" The regular test writing and inspections are somewhat pleasan't. They've been left off for a few days. We are gearing up for a week long trip to TN. It'll see some writing but probably not logged.

 

I said all that to say this: Science is fun! Go do some!


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#38 Icywolfe

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 18:58

 

Chemist or not, it's interesting information. Just wasn't sure if Aluminum oxidizes or not. But I do know that a good number of inks have some degree of acidity. 

 

For example I'm not sure what the caps are made of on the Caran d'Ache bottles, but seems like in submersion/constant-contact it didn't take that long for it to eat past the nickle plating and then into the cap itself (which I'm guessing could be aluminum, but it seems heavier than aluminum). 

 

caran_clean5.jpg

 

... now I have an obsession to know for sure... dammit. lol. 

It could be magnesium. 

 

Magnesium is often used as a cheaper option to aluminum, also it's much heavier. (But not super heavier.)


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#39 KBeezie

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 20:32

It could be magnesium. 

 

Magnesium is often used as a cheaper option to aluminum, also it's much heavier. (But not super heavier.)

 

From my understanding Magnesium isn't typically corroded, plus isn't Magnesium both flammable and combustible? Though I suppose as an alloy (with either nickel or aluminum) it could become both corrodible, without being ignitable. 



#40 Nihontochicken

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 21:25

Magnesium is both lighter (1.74g/cc) than aluminum (2.70g/cc) and also more chemically reactive.  Neither is generally useful in aqueous environments with notable contaminants (aluminum shower fixtures are usually anodized to resist corrosion, and aluminum automotive cylinder blocks and heads require clean anti-freeze mixtures to last).

 

Years ago I didn't changed the engine coolant regularly in my Toyota truck, and so the coolant ate through the head at 176k miles.  Later I had a KTM water-cooled two stroke dirt bike with a split magnesium side case that housed the water pump.  Unfortunately, that magnesium housing was fitted with a steel water inlet stub.  This created a classic electric battery, and the race was on to see whether the magnesium corroded through to the outside or the inside first.  Inside won, and so the pump moved all the coolant into the transmission case, noted as the breather tube began spitting green froth.  When I replaced the water pump housing, I noted that KTM had begun using aluminum in place of magnesium.  But it still had the steel inlet stub, same problem, would just take longer to come to fruition. 


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