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Fp's Bleeding In Daily Use?

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#1 Kuhataparunks

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 22:29

After regretedly dishing out money for five fountain pens (<$20 each, haha), all of them have one thing in common, and I only imagine gold nibs are the same. This has deterred me from using ftn pens in public, and I honestly prefer my Pilot G2 over most any FP because of this, much to my consternation.

So for those who use fountain pens every day:

When someone at work hands you a piece of something like 60gsm printer paper (this has happened to me) to, say, simply sign, and you sign it, does your fountain pen bleed on it?

Because I've done this before and it looks like Waterloo occurred right on the signature line (ink bleeds crazily on the paper, it looks terrible).

If you've gotten this far, thank you. FYI, my pen of choice was Pilot Metropolitan F with Aurora Black ink, and it bleeds on just about any lower-end paper I put to it.

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#2 jar

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 22:43

Never had that problem.


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#3 owend

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 23:10

Not quite sure of the details, but 60 gsm paper is quite thin, and I think any fountain pen will tend to feather, ie the ink will run and make the line wider and fuzzy - is that what you mean by "bleed"?

 

On poor quality paper, it's likely. Use a ballpoint, a rollerball or a FP which writes dry. Or use heavier paper (80gsm plus). A lot also depends on the paper's finish, but copier/printer paper can be good, I use 80 or 90 gsm with no trouble.



#4 carlos.q

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 23:19

With paper so thin and the FP you're using I would recommend that you use Nooder's bulletproof black. IMHO Aurora black is too wet an ink for cheap or very thin paper.

Edited by carlos.q, 23 July 2014 - 23:20.


#5 xwingrox

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 23:28

It's just an unfortunate fact of life that everyone does not use sugarcane paper, Rhodia paper, Tomoe River paper, etc. I carry two pens in my pocket for this reason: a medium Vanishing Point and a Ti Post Raw from BigIDesigns with a G2 refill. I use the VP with my own paper. For literally everything else (e.g. someone hands me something to sign), I use the G2. I would recommend you just carry two pens - one for non-FP friendly paper and one for your own paper. 



#6 Waski_the_Squirrel

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 23:45

I usually carry a pen inked with Noodler's black. It behaves on poor quality paper.


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#7 ac12

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 00:29

When you say bleed, what specifically do you mean.

- Because bleeding implies that the ink is going thru to the other side of the paper.

- If you mean the ink line is expanding beyond the width of the nib, then that is feathering, or worse blotting.

- Or do you mean the ink is dripping from the pen?

 

As was mentioned Aurora is a WET ink, and will make all 3 of the above happen worse than other inks.

Just a little dryer and a very good ink is Waterman.

 

Printer paper can be absolute junk when it comes to a fountain pen.  Some paper is so absorbent that it acts like blotting paper, and there may be very little that you can do.

 

Given that you likely have no control over the paper, I suggest as others have, carry a ball or gel pen when you have to deal with lousey paper.


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#8 WirsPlm

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 00:41

I don't think that ink is right for that paper, I've heard that Aurora ink is pretty wet and I'd suggest a drier ink or one specifically designed not to feather (a nano carbon ink or Noodler's Bulletproof Black are good starting points, I've used both on printer paper from work and not had problems).

#9 bleair

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:35

I can just picture the pitchforks and torches of the crowd that will result from this comment but..

 

Fountain pens are wonderful to use, but they don't share the practical aspects that normal pens have and I always have a normal pen with me. 

Fountain pens have many nice attributes - particularly when you can use your own paper and write with the pen you want to use, but for basic functional things like "please sign this", or checking an item on some one else's printout or scribbling a phone number you are just so better off using a normal pen.

 

You're not violating the purity of any fountain pen religion.  With the vast vast majority of everyday paper in use by the non fountain pen using world you're just better off using a normal pen.  

 

If you use your fountain pen, that may have a really wet nib or your favorite ink that dries a tiny bit slower and the result is a mess on their paper you're not doing yourself or them any favors.  

 

Save your fountain pen for writing where you have a bit of control.. I'm thinking of both controlling the paper, and also having a bit of extra time so you can unscrew that grail pen that you get great satisfaction from using and can write a touch more slowly.  Imagine handing them a note or bit of your written work and you've had time to use decent paper and a great pen you really like... now contrast that with you pulling out your pen, unscrewing it, maybe having to wipe ink off (it happens every so often) then writing something that bleeds through or spreads like crazy (super-spread writing on cheap paper looks poor IMO, or at the very least very avant garde). Say your current ink is something that stays wet for 20-40 seconds (do you carry a blotter and pounce with you?), and then after you hand back their item the still wet ink smears onto their hand or their other papers... That will also make an impression, but maybe not the one you want.

 

I should add...  it's not impossible to use your fountain pens for all writing - so if you know that your pen has a drier nib, and or the nib is fine / extra fine and you know you're using a ink that dries quickly and doesn't spread much and never bleeds through (even on the really cheap paper) then go for it.. all a matter of personal preferences and so on.


Edited by bleair, 24 July 2014 - 03:02.


#10 Keyless Works

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 02:44

I use fountain pens on poor quality paper at work but I would never use one on a deliverable work product. All of my signatures at work are digital because signing on paper isn't the most efficient.  


Edited by Keyless Works, 24 July 2014 - 02:46.


#11 playtime

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:48

mon dieu!

 

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I can just picture the pitchforks and torches of the crowd that will result from this comment but..

 

 


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#12 bleair

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:36

mon dieu!

 

TorchGang_thumb.jpg

 

lol, exactly what I had in mind. :)



#13 Kuhataparunks

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:46

[quote name="bleair" post="3061237" timestamp="1406169351"]

I can just picture the pitchforks and torches of the crowd that will result from this comment but..
 
Fountain pens are wonderful to use, but they don't share the practical aspects that normal pens have and I always have a normal pen with me. 
Fountain pens have many nice attributes - particularly when you can use your own paper and write with the pen you want to use, but for basic functional things like "please sign this", or checking an item on some one else's printout or scribbling a phone number you are just so better off using a normal pen.
 
Not at all, I'll have to side with you, good sir!
I limit my fountain pen usage to the comfort of my home, but kind of envy when I see that someone reports they have an "all-around" fountain pen.
I suppose in the 50s and earlier, most paper was designed for fountain pens, but now, sadly with mass production the paper drops in quality.

#14 ac12

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:46

@bleair

You said and implied something interesting.

Some/many of us here on on FPN like nice ink color, etc.  But that implies a somewhat wet pen to give you that color, which means more ink on the paper, which results in slower drying.  And the selection of ink can make it even worse.

As you said to get fast drying you have to compromise down; narrower F nib, dry pen, dry ink, etc. That then implies that the ink line will be a lighter uninteresting color. 

 

Guess what, that is just how some of my Parker 51s are; F nib and somewhat dry writing (even with Waterman ink).

And they have lighter uninteresting color ink lines.


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#15 Kuhataparunks

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:48

Awesome insights, thanks everyone! I was feeling a tad disloyal using a gel pen in public when I much prefer a fountain pen

#16 J English Smith

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:55

XF nib with a drier ink would solve most of these problems. But I usually carry at least one good bp with me to work everydsy along with 1-2 fps, so I have options.


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#17 ac12

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 05:06

 

Awesome insights, thanks everyone! I was feeling a tad disloyal using a gel pen in public when I much prefer a fountain pen

 

Bah humbug.

A FP is nothing more than a writing tool.

Just like a carpenter, your job is to select the appropriate tool for the job; fountain pen, dip pen, ball pen, pencil, sharpie, broad marker, etc.

Use the wrong tool and you get a bad result.

 

There is a saying "jack of all trades, master of none."


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#18 Dillo

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 14:47

Hi,

 

I don't think I've used a ballpoint pen in a very long time, and I wouldn't call it a "normal pen." Not even ballpoint pens are regularly used by everyone these days. Many use rollerballs or gel pens, and many rollerballs bleed and so do some gel pens. Most of my pens are quite dry since I like them that way, and usually use inks that don't bleed much. I used to use whatever pen I had on those blue books made from newsprint and haven't had any problems with bleeding. In any case though, some inks tend to bleed more than others, and some pens tend to be wetter, and those can cause problems. I usually get my pens tuned to work well on most all the papers I see daily including the really thin paper in some notebooks and cheaper copy paper. I can't afford special paper, so what pen I have has to work with whatever I have on hand.

 

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#19 Sandy1

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 15:10

Hi,

 

When I have a chance encounter with FP-hostile paper, I use the 'wrong' side of the nib, (feed uppermost), and write with a very light hand to generate a line that is quite dry and narrow.

 

If you encounter such paper on a routine basis, kindly consider either switching to an iron-gall ink or have another pen+ink combo dedicated to that paper.

 

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#20 Beckwith

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 15:18

At the moment I have a couple of steel nibs at work (Conklin and Pelikan M200). One has Monteverde black, one has Fahrney's (Private Reserve) DC Superhshow Blue. We have all sorts of paper - I keep nice Levenger pads at my desk, but often have to write on sticky-notes, copier paper, or cheap legal pads.

 

I get a bit of feathering on some of the cheaper paper. But bleeding isn't really an issue with either pen or ink. Personally, if my pen ever bleeds through a document someone else gave me, that someone else should find some nicer paper.







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