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Nibs! (Come Here Pelikan Connoisseurs And Experts)

nibs gold m200 m400 m600

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18 replies to this topic

#1 zepp

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 00:36

Hello people,

 

I am now chasing nibs (since I'm too poor to afford another pen). I have a Pelikan M200 which writes smoothly, never skips or hard starting (albeit underlining stuffs is the equivalent of asking someone to jump off a bridge, can't do it without major skippings but I /don't really/ mind for now).

 

A man in the shop in which I bought this pen recommended me the Pelikan M600, if one day I would like to upgrade to something more classy, it has the right size and all...

 

BUT, that would also mean that I'd have to spend ~$400 for one!

 

So since I know that Pelikan's Souverän series pens have interchangeable nibs, like Lamy Safaris, I wonder if investing in a M400 14 carats gold nib is worth it (so I can upgrade the nib only, not the entire pen), that would only cost me the price of the nib, ~$135 (My M200 costs less than that lol but who cares it's a gold nib).

 

So people who owns Pelikan M400, what's your opinion on that nib? Is it worth getting one? Or should I just go straight up for a M600? ($400 vs $135 mmm)

 

Thanks!


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#2 onepuff

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 00:52

The M200 steel nib is in my opinion superior to the modern M400 gold nibs which I find rather fat and rigid. You could "upgrade" to a 1980s M400 nib which will have very slightly more flex and feedback or buy a 1950s to 1960s 400/N/NN which will have more. I actually upgraded my modern M400 to a M200 steel nib and upgraded one of my M200s to a 1980s nib and both write well. None of my Pelikans skip badly. The M400 is quite a jump in price for slightly nicer trim and a bit of decorative celluloid. The M600 is quite a jump again in price for a very slightly larger pen. If I were you I'd stick with your M200 and look for an ink with better flow for underlining. The older pens (400 - 400NN) are nice pens with better ink capacity than modern Pelikans and a slightly nicer feel in the hand if you really want to spend extra money. The earlier the nib the more flex they tend to have as well for a given type of nib (Pelikan made semi-flex and rigid bibs for these pens). 


Edited by onepuff, 18 May 2014 - 00:58.


#3 Runnin_Ute

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 00:57

I don't have experience with that particular nib. But the M400 nib WILL fit your M200 (my M205 too) . Inexpensive (relatively speaking) way to experience the gold nib.

 

Another way though is to find a M250 or other gold nibbed Pelikan in the pre-owned market. (classifieds, ebay etc)


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#4 zepp

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:21

Yeah, that's why I thought of swapping nibs (Posted, M200 has the perfect size and balance imo).

 

So M200's steel nib is better than the M400's modern gold (when we thing modern technology has improved by so much but yet product's quality has decreased, how sad) :/ And seriously, the M200 is my first pen to NEVER have problem with starting, writes smoothly. By the way, it writes super dry when I first tried it, but after a few flush, it writes wonderfully. I am currently using the Waterman Blue-Black ink (I'm starting to hate that color).

 

Also, if the nib being not flexy doesn't bother me very much, is M400's gold nib still worth a try? (I kinda like stiff nibs, actually)


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#5 sargetalon

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:21

I don't think adding a modern M400 nib to your M200 pen will enhance your writing experience in any way. You might be best served looking for a used 14K M250 nib or get an M250 all together. Same as the M200 except for a gold nib. Better writers than the modern M400 in most instances IMHO.

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#6 zepp

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:37

Difference between the M205 new and old nibs? (The store do sell M205 14kt nibs, brand new)

 

I'm quite lazy and I don't really like buying used stuffs off the internet, sorry for that, so if the difference isn't too significant for someone who's quite new to FP, I don't mind getting the new one


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#7 Runnin_Ute

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:47

Currently a well priced M250 on ebay. Ends tomorrow morning. Less than the price of a new nib.


Edited by Runnin_Ute, 18 May 2014 - 01:49.

Brad
 
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"None of us can have as many virtues as the fountain-pen, or half its cussedness; but we can try." - Mark Twain
 


#8 akmac

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:56

There are no 14kt M205 nibs, these are always stainless steel (unplated); there is also no discernible difference in feel between old and new ones, as the M205 is a fairly new addition to the Pelikan lune-up. The gold-nibbed pen people are writing above is the M250, a different model. It has now been discontinued for quite a few years, so most examples would be in used condition - you could get a new-old-stock one, though it would be at a premium.

#9 zepp

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:03

Sorry! Meant a gold 14kt M250 nib D:

 

Interesting, on the website they still sell these M250 14kt nibs

 

8QyW6.png


Edited by zepp, 18 May 2014 - 02:05.

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#10 parnesh

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:17

Do yourself a favour and save a little more on that and get a good vintage 400 or better yet a 400NN. Better nibs and a new pen for the price of a nib.



#11 zepp

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:31

Alright, thanks for you guys' input, I'll stick to my M200 nib for now, it writes smoothly and I love it, aaaand when the time will come I will start hunting for a nice M400 vintage nib!


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#12 fledermaus89

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:37

I own both M200 and M400, and while I don't hate the gold nib, I like the steel nib much better since it produces a line that's about half as wide as the gold nib, despite both being EFs. I wouldn't pay $100+ just for the nib. The first gold Pelikan nib I owned was the M300 and its quality let me down, since I had such a high expectation for Pelikan through the experience with the M200.



#13 Moshe ben David

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:04

No one has mentioned it yet, but I'd suggest if you're going to upgrade nibs that you buy one from one of the nibmeisters who handle Pelikan; they'll make sure the nib is writing correctly.  Could be less headaches than going through eBay etc.  I'm specifically thinking of Richard Binder or John Mottishaw.

 

I know of John Mottishaw only from seeing his name on FPN.  I've bought several nibs and pens from Richard Binder with excellent service.


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#14 dneal

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 09:21

I was thinking Richard Binder as well, for a custom ground M250 14k nib.

 

I put a new style 14k nib in my M200, if only because I ran across a good deal.  I do prefer it to the steel nib it came with.



#15 Guernseytim

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 10:03

I was looking yesterday. pelikan M400 nibs are available cheapest direct from pelikan.

I've just bought an M205 duo (highlighter) and was tempted to get an M400 nib to turn it into a normal pen.

Will hold off having read through this and see what it's like in steel.

#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 16:12

As stared by onepuff,

Modern 400 nibs and 600 semi-nail nibs are a waste of money....unless all you want is butter smooth.

They are just semi-nails; like a P-75's nib....but blobbier.

Made so, because of the hamfisted ball point and roller ball users, don't have the three minutes to learn how to hold a fountain pen; and one must not frighten them. the buyers off by putting a small instruction book in the fountain pen box.

They are blobby, 1/2 size or more wider ( I have a modern MB B nib that is BB.).

 

A K nib, ie KM, is a kuggle/ball nib. It was designed for folks that liked to hold their fountain pen like a pencil...pre-ball point. In Pelikan they had a flattish bottom...ie stubbish, with more tipping on the tip and the upper side of a nib...sort of a reverse of the American Bump under. You could hold the pen high or low. Holding it low like a regular fountain pen gave you that flat crisp line of the flattened less tipping.

The modern 400/600 nib has a double kuggle/ball tipping. = fat and blobby. Semi-nail not 'true' regular flex.

 

My '90's nibs are 'true' regular flex, a 400, two Celebery pens; one in gold-one in steel, both =. All three nibs are = very good. 4 of the 6 200's nibs that I transmailed were as good as that. 2 were a hair less, the same good as a -50's-60's 120's true regular flex nib.

Opened my eyes to the fine 200's nib.

 

The gold nibs of the '50-60's...called pre '66 when Pelikan stopped making classic nibbed 400nn's.. unless marked D=daur which is a nail/manifold nib, are semi-flex or flexi/maxi-semi-flex...in most wanted nibs with a tad of flex.

 

A good steel 200 or 120's nib or true 14K regular flex nib are the good basis for for comparing nibs of some flex. A modern semi-nail is not.

If you mash a 'true' regular flex it will spread it's tines 3 X a light down stroke.

Semi-flex does that at half the pressure. 

'Flexi'/maxi-semi-flex ** with half of that or 1/4th of the pressure needed of a true regular flex to make a line #X a light down stroke.

In all three of these nib flex sets, only spread their tines 3 X a light down stroke...IMO they are not "Flex" nibs; which spread tines 4-5-6 or even 7 X a light down stroke, with progressively less pressure.

Easy Full flex-18th that of a true regular flex.

Wet Noodle 1/16th.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodles even less.

 

**Maxi-semi-flex ...Having an Easy Full Flex nib, I had a Rupp nib that was a class higher in the flex class than my semi-flex. For three days I rand around saying wow that certainly is a  maxi-semi-flex. 

:eureka: :eureka: :eureka:  Three days later I realized it was one of those 'flexi' nibs that many talked about, but none described. I there for describe it. It does help to have a semi-flex to know for sure. But does give an idea of what a 'flexi' nib is.

 

Rick I believe said the 400NN's are 'maxi-semi-flex'.  Other's say the latter 400nn's are only or can be semi-flex.

So it's a bit of a crapshoot if your nib will be semi-flex or 'flexi'...back in the day you went to the corner pens shop and tried the nibs out...taking a semi-flex or 'flexi' as you wished. Now it's luck or buying from some one who knows the difference.

My 500 (51-54) a fancied up 400 with rolled gold cap and piston cap, is a 'flexi' OBB with a 30 degree grind.  My 'flexi' 400nn from 1956...a rare 400nn...it had a friction fit feed, :doh:  is a @ 15 degree OF.

My 400N is a semi-flex B.

 

My two 140 nibs OB&OF are semi-flex....but they have a smaller nib, that looks a bit dorky in a 200/400.

I do like semi-flex having @ 26, like the 'flexi' nibs too having @14.

 

Unless left handed I advise against modern oblique nibs....even in true regular flex.

Left handers can depending on which way they write have lots of trouble with vintage German oblique nibs which many have some flex.....I do have a nail Lamy 27 OM...so it's not all.

Oblique is good for those who cant their nibs also.

Normally I don't cant my nibs unless I have an oblique in my hand.

 

The Germans seem to have the patent on that Oblique nibs with some flex;....in the US went nail-stubb early in the '30's at least if not before. I don't know enough about British pens to know if they had oblique nibs....but in the six weeks I learned about and chased Swan nib so slowly I never caught one; I don't remember reading about Swan nib obliques. Swan had a very nice variety of nibs from regular flex to 'flexi' to perhaps Easy Full flex.

 

I am very lucky...in skill had nothing to do with it that I have both @ 15&30 degree cuts in OBB, OB, OM and OF nibs. That makes a difference to the patterns.

 

A stub or a cursive italic is max line variation always. (stated by a fine poster...a grand description)

Semi-flex or 'flexi' oblique nibs are some line variation with max on demand; to go with a much softer ride.

 

Zepp, vintage/used 400's be that the '83-97 or the '50-65 is what you need rather than throwing your money away on a semi-nail.

 

I recommend either buying a 400 vintage nib from Rick Propas in the states or Penboard.de in Germany. I'd suggest a semi-flex so you can slowly lighten your Hand naturally, so you would be ready for a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex some 3-6 months later.

A B or an OB would be good in a spare nib or in a 140. It is a nice writing nib, more like a M-B....not the fat blobby B signature nib of a modern 400/600.

I have my 400N's B nib :puddle:  in my 605 in my desk stand.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 18 May 2014 - 16:16.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#17 zepp

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 23:32

I am pretty heavy handed, not because I use ballpoints, but pencils (I love pencils). I own a Waterman Hemisphere, which nib is hard as a nail, I don't enjoy writing with it very much, plus it skips, need to send it to get it fixed. 

 

I have more spare time this summer, I'll try to hunt down for one then.

 

My M200 nib offers a little bit of flex, I am afraid to press any harder, I don't want to spring a brand new nib just yet, besides, I think something is wrong with mine, it has been this way out of the box: it is smooth, but yet skips on big lines.

 

Besides, I don't know if it is the pen's wetness/dryness that caused that, but it produces a thinner line despite being a medium than my Parker Vector Fine (Hard as a nail, but writes very smoothly, made in UK, dad bought it in ~2000)

 

8RQiH.jpg8RQj8.jpg


Edited by zepp, 18 May 2014 - 23:39.

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#18 clam45

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 20:36

I would agree with the sentiment that the steel M200 nib might be better than a M400 14k nib.  I bought a M200 with a monotone 14k gold F nib from Richard Binder thinking it would be much better than my M200 demonstrator I had with a stock EF M200 steel nib.  The EF steel nib was actually smoother than the gold nib which I am finding is too wet and scratchy.



#19 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:26

You look out of alignment a tad...with your fingernail at the breather hole, press down a couple-three times for @ 3 seconds from the breather hole the up tine...press it under/lower than the low tine.

That should get the nib alined again.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nibs, gold, m200, m400, m600



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