Radite (Celluloid) Discoloration

[JonSzanto]

FWIW, I have other celluloid pens from other companies, and those look just fine, too. So I'm also wondering: is it just Sheaffer?

 

Just to be clear, you received a very good answer from Florida Blue in the third post, information that has been known and confirmed by many reputable pen repair and restoration people. The business about the shellac being the culprit is, well, far-fetched at best. I would recommend this article from noted vintage penman David Nishimura for more background.

[FarmBoy]

Shellac and/or shellac solutions in any state do NOT cause the discoloration of celluloid when used as a sac adhesive.

[crescentfiller]

Bruce, Please clarify: are you suggesting that just one of the Kennedys shellacked Marilyn Monroe on the grassy knoll?

And who is Amber?

 

 

Conspiratorily,

Daniel A.

[JonSzanto]

And who is Amber?

 

She's into inks. Ask around.

[FarmBoy]

Bruce, Please clarify: are you suggesting that just one of the Kennedys shellacked Marilyn Monroe on the grassy knoll?

And who is Amber?

 

 

Conspiratorily,

Daniel A.

Amber just watched. To keep her from talking she was shellacked.

[crescentfiller]

Who alerted her?

[kirchh]

Lazard:

 

You are being very evasive. Evasion is a definite sign that you are afraid of giving a direct and truthful answer.

 

Are you discussing the ambering that appears where hard rubber parts are in contact with the celluloid when you refer to "Typical ambering by shellac in junction zones sac-nozzle and/or section-barrel"?

 

You didn't address my point about your theory regarding the evaporation of alcohol carrying shellac. The majority of that evaporation takes place in the first few hours after the shellac is applied, so the ambering would occur during that time. Correct?

[Lazard 20]

I'm not evasive, just try to be prudent. Exist comments "ad hominem" unrelated to the issue, without to refute arguments only trying to play down the issue (as usual only 1/2 % and always the same people versus 98% reading politely)

 

In another post I uploaded a photo with SheafferS pure celluloid rods wich never had shellac or sac and they were with dirty color by the simple passage of time and sunlight and this reflect adequately my opinion is that not only sacs o shellac motivates ambering.

 

I agree with Mr Nishimura point of view and majority opinion ("with the passage of time, sunlight and perhaps the sulfur of rubber sac" I said in this and others post before Mr Nishimura was cited) as I have given to understand in many post as well I add to majority opinion that shellac and aggressive washed with petrol component, as I have pointed in differents post, increase ambering.

 

I think sacs and sunbeams make dirty color celluloid and shellac spread orange tone.

 

Here you can see into barrel dirty color because sac and amber tones by shellac from section-barrel and/or nozzle. It is common to find shellac, in lesser degree, also in the lever pin, as this photo, coloring -ambering- of orange tones the area near the lever pin.

 

http://s29.postimg.org/doyno1rw7/image.jpg

 

The simple fact that the ambering was color amber, the shellac has a strong coloring power and that shellac is amber pigment, It should make you think

 

But what do not explain to you the images and observations from inside barrels (this and anothers) I can not explain you in words. You have another, and respectable, point of view, simply. I'm not evasive.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Lazard 20

[lahlahlaw]

My cousin Amber hasn't exhibited any discoloration, though I'm pretty certain she uses sun block lotion. This may be the solution !eureka!

[kirchh]

Lazard -

 

You didn't address my point about your theory regarding the evaporation of alcohol carrying shellac. The majority of that evaporation takes place in the first few hours after the shellac is applied, so the ambering would occur during that time. Correct?

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

Edited August 19, 2014 by Lazard 20

[Roger W.]

I see ambering due to the connector and that the material is thinner there. Shellac and rubber would have little effect on the taper as they are generally not exposed. Any shellac would be on the far end of the pen so your shellac theory is falling apart?

 

Roger W.

[kirchh]

Lazard -

 

Your hypothesis is that as the alcohol in liquid shellac evaporates, it carries particles of shellac with it, which then come to rest throughout parts of the pen, turning them amber.

 

Since nearly all the alcohol in liquid shellac evaporates within minutes of application, according to your hypothesis nearly all the ambering would occur within minutes of the pen's assembly.

 

But nearly all the ambering takes place years after the pen's assembly. Therefore, your hypothesis is wrong.

 

--Daniel

[Lazard 20]

Shellac and rubber would have little effect on the taper as they are generally not exposed.

Roger W.

 

 

You're wrong; please, note that taper is very exposed, directly in contact if there are shellac on the threads barrel/taper and/or fixing ring as "modus operandi" of those years as they tell us through the Service Manuals and ratified in our daily observation.

Lazard

[dannyboy]

My cousin Amber hasn't exhibited any discoloration, though I'm pretty certain she uses sun block lotion. This may be the solution !eureka!

Amber's untimely death followed by cremation will probably prevent us from ever knowing whether she was shellaced on a grassy knoll with or without a silicone sac. Alas.

[kirchh]

Shellac and rubber would have little effect on the taper as they are generally not exposed.

Roger W.

 

 

You're wrong; please, note that taper is very exposed, directly in contact if there are shellac on the threads barrel/taper and/or fixing ring as "modus operandi" of those years as they tell us through the Service Manuals and ratified in our daily observation.

Lazard

 

Are you claiming that parker service manuals state that there is shellac on the threads of the taper of a button-filling desk pen such as that shown here?

 

--Daniel

[JonSzanto]

http://trekcore.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/bele-loki.jpg

[Lazard 20]

"When men differ in opinion, both sides ought equally to have the advantage of being heard by the public; and that when truth and error have fair play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin.

 

"Tell me what you brag and I´ll tell you that you lack"

~ A simple man in the street.

 

After this brief exordium, we get down to business.

 

Parker recommended in those years put shellac not only were sac contact with section. Also recommended it in contact zones ("parts with touches", just more ambering parts). How much is "a little"? Dealers and store repairman, too often, understood this question without greed.

 

Well, are you claiming that there isn't shellac underneath the ring taper?

 

Or, If the shellac was harmless, because they changed for white cement as you can see into "51" for example?

 

Or, b´cause ambaring, in a majority, is more evident in "shellac touches zones" and its proximities?

 

In this post everybody can to question, is it not?

 

 

Edited August 19, 2014 by Lazard 20

[JonSzanto]

The errors are compounded.

 

Lazard, there is also one, inescapable fact: this is not your fault, and it would be far, far worse if I tried to communicate in your native tongue, but your English is so full of grammatical and contextual errors that it is, more often than not, extremely difficult to understand just what it is you are trying to say. If, by any change at all, you have a friend who is fluent in English, maybe they could look over your posts before you send them.

[kirchh]

As I explained, your hypothesis is that as the alcohol in liquid shellac evaporates, it carries particles of shellac with it, which then come to rest throughout parts of the pen, turning them amber.

 

Since nearly all the alcohol in liquid shellac evaporates within minutes of application, according to your hypothesis nearly all the ambering would occur within minutes of the pen's assembly.

 

But nearly all the ambering takes place years after the pen's assembly. Therefore, your hypothesis is wrong.

 

Now, read this question very carefully before replying. If any part of the question is not clear, please ask, and I will re-phrase it:

 

Are you claiming that Parker service manuals state that there is shellac on the threads of the taper of a button-filling desk pen such as that shown here?

 

--Daniel

Edited August 19, 2014 by kirchh