Student & Fp Friendly Paper

[KBeezie]

These are all great suggestions! On a side note has anyone had any experience with stone paper? I was at the pharmacy today and I saw a notebook of it and it felt very very smooth. I dont mean to sidetrack this discussion but I figured I would throw this in there if any of you guys have any experience with it.

 

There was a topic on it just last month that is easily found via searching "this forum"

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/263713-stone-paper-fp-friendly-or-not/?hl=stone

 

In Short: not very FP friendly if it even works (basically crushed limestone coated in plastic)

Edited April 16, 2014 by KBeezie

[Moshe ben David]

re: 'Brazil' or 'sugarcane' paper. Check the Staples website. Some of the stores don't stock it but you can order anything from the Staples website which will then be shipped free to the store you identify which is near you.

 

Just in case you ever want a notebook for use as a journal or if it is for taking notes in your academic major, etc.; check out the section of the store in Staples devoted to accounting ledgers, record books, etc. They usually have some hardcover journals which I've found to be very smooth for fountain writing. Not necessarily the cheapest things around, which is why I suggested only for special use. But very nice indeed. Much better than what they show in the 'journal' section of the store.

[JB213]

I just discovered an inexpensive notebook that works really well with my fountain pens (fine and medium nibs, as well as my Noodler flex nibs). It's sugarcane paper but not the Staples brand -- it's called Environotes and is made by Roaring Spring in Pennsylvania, USA. I ordered one of the 9x6 spiral bound notebooks, but they come in lots of sizes. And they are super affordable!

 

Here's a link:

 

http://www.shoplet.com/Roaring-Spring-Environotes-Sugarcane-Notebook/ROA13360/spdv

 

Also available at Staples for a higher (but still affordable) price:

 

http://www.staples.com/Roaring-Spring-Environotes-Spiral-Wirebound-Sugarcane-Notebook-9-1-2-inch-x/product_ROA13360

 

With my pens and inks (mostly Noodlers and Diamine inks) it gives nice, crisp lines, no feathering, no bleed through, and some show through but not enough to prevent me from using both sides. In fact, the show through is so much less than I'm used to that I enjoy using both sides of the paper.

 

Let me know if you'd like me to post some photos!

 

Jen

[theverdictis]

 

Out of all the local stores lately I've yet to find one that says "Brazil", there's a lot that say USA, Vietnam, China, including one from Maylasia, and one or two says from Canada, but I haven't found "Brazil" labeled on any at Walmart, Staples, Meijers, etc.

Cheers for this, really handy!

 

Ben

[ac12]

 

Out of all the local stores lately I've yet to find one that says "Brazil", there's a lot that say USA, Vietnam, China, including one from Maylasia, and one or two says from Canada, but I haven't found "Brazil" labeled on any at Walmart, Staples, Meijers, etc.

 

These things come in batches.

The first few times during the back to school sale, Staples did not have the Brazil paper, then later in the sale, the Brazil paper came out, by the pallet load.

As far a Staples is concerned it is the same item. It is how they source the products and when they show up in the store.

So unfortunately you do have to search/and read the country of origin on the notebooks and filler paper.

 

The Vietnam paper was OK, but only some of them. I could feel the difference in the paper and only picked the ones with the smoothest feel. Interestingly these were the ones in the red covers, so it makes me think it was a particular batch that came out good.

 

I recommend that you buy ONE notebook, go to your car, and write in the notebook with your fountain pen, to test how it behaves.

If it behaves well, then go back and get more. If it misbehaves, you can try to return the notebook as not usable, or just keep it for other uses.

The reason I say this is, I got 6 notebooks from Walmart that I "thought" were OK. But when I got home, they were BAD. The paper blotted ink badly. And now I have 5 notebooks to give to the nephew for his kids.

[wikeh2004]

If you're willing to use loose paper, you can use HP Premium or Hammermill multipurpose 24 lb paper and make your own sheets. I've used Georgia Pacific Advantage paper I got from Costco. These papers will behave well with fountain pens and you can use a planner binder or disc bound system and punch to make your own notebooks. Or just a three ring binder. The paper is more important than the binding so whatever works for you. Some people make a backing page that has dark lines on it that you can put behind the blank sheet for guidelines. Or, just write away. Most people are pretty good about writing straight lines. :-)

[WirsPlm]

Thanks again to all of you who have posted! I was just wondering what the reason is that paper from Brazil seems to be recommended by so many people? I have no experience with Brazilian paper but it sounds like a pretty great deal to me!

 

My personal suspicion is that it's because Brazilian paper is made with old growth wood (from the rainforests around there) which is denser and heavier than the trees used on most tree farms (which are bred to grow relatively quickly), but that's just a theory based on what I know of papermaking and wood fibers, there doesn't seem to really be a standard answer.

[ac12]

+1 to Brazil paper.

You can find the composition notebooks for a fairly inexpensive price at staples or walmart. Staples also sells a filler paper made in Brazil. It's not bad. It will feather with tough inks from wet pens, but you can't beat the price.

 

 

As opposed to the Brazil wire bound spiral notebooks and filler paper (which I like), I have had bad luck with the Brazil composition books (both Staples and Walmart). ALL the composition books that I tried have inconsistent paper. Sometimes differing from sheet to sheet, sometimes on the same sheet. It got quite frustrating, to the point that I have given up on the composition books.

[theverdictis]

Is rhodia pretty good? I see a lot of people talking about this particular brand?

 

Ben

[David_W]

There's two main drawbacks with Rhodia. It's very "hard" paper, which means the ink can take some time to dry as it tends to sit on the surface, also the price. Some people find Rhodia too smooth or have problems with hand oils making the lower part of the page ink resistant as they write (solution: put some plastic, scrap paper or blotting paper under your hand). It's cheap to buy one of the small pads or acquire a few sheets from a larger pad to try it out.

 

Rhodia is excellent paper and its the main paper I use with my fountain pens. I find it well worth the money. However, if I was getting through the amount of paper I did as an undergraduate on the limited budget I had for stationery, it would probably be unaffordable.

[theverdictis]

There's two main drawbacks with Rhodia. It's very "hard" paper, which means the ink can take some time to dry as it tends to sit on the surface, also the price. Some people find Rhodia too smooth or have problems with hand oils making the lower part of the page ink resistant as they write (solution: put some plastic, scrap paper or blotting paper under your hand). It's cheap to buy one of the small pads or acquire a few sheets from a larger pad to try it out.

 

Rhodia is excellent paper and its the main paper I use with my fountain pens. I find it well worth the money. However, if I was getting through the amount of paper I did as an undergraduate on the limited budget I had for stationery, it would probably be unaffordable.

Thanks, luckily my university give you a £500 bursary on stationery, so hopefully the paper won't break the bank

 

Ben

[David_W]

I'm a big fan of Rhodia No. 20 pads, which I buy from Bureau Direct (no connection other than a satisfied customer). These have full A4 sheets when torn from the pad, the pages are 4 hole punched and the lined ruling is sensible for my needs (7mm lines with a 40mm margin).

 

Amongst the pen and ink combinations I use are a Lamy Accent with an EF nib (other inexpensive Lamy fountain pens should perform similarly - they all use the same steel nibs) with De Atramentis Document Ink dark blue. This is a nano pigment ink which is waterproof when dry.

Edited April 22, 2014 by David_W

[Azura]

I use paper one 80g all purpose paper, $4 for 500 sheets, good enough for me.

[KBeezie]

I use a Rhodia No.16 dotpad, I really like Rhodia paper, and like others have said it can take a while to dry, but it works smoothly with all my pens, and most of my pens are Extra-fine or Fine so they tend to dry pretty quickly. My Montblanc No.225 with Noodler's Black Eel dries decently on Rhodia (under 10 seconds), where as in the past if I tried to use something like my Sheaffer Snorkel Admiral (a pretty wet medium nib), it could take well over a minute before it would no longer smudge.

 

The only issue I have is that it's still almost $10 for 80 sheets of it. The Arc paper that Staples makes for their Arc Notebooks seems to be a close second at under 5$ for a pack of 50 sheet refills (but I can also get a 300 sheet pack of Georgia Pacific Super Bright Premium for $7, or Super Premium for a dollar less, or 500 sheet of just Premium for around 5$ and then hole punch them for the Arc notebook).

[David_W]

I use a Rhodia No.16 dotpad

The 'scribble pad' on my desk is a No. 16 DotPad - it's great for all sorts of uses including quick mind maps and similar diagrams.

[KBeezie]

The 'scribble pad' on my desk is a No. 16 DotPad - it's great for all sorts of uses including quick mind maps and similar diagrams.

it's also not too badly priced, the sell them just under 6$ here at the local Barnes and Noble if of can find one without a dented corner (they got them tightly packed and collecting dust yet the moleskine display is nice and ppristine)

[DanF]

Best bang for the buck I've found is the Brazilian paper at Staples, either notebook or loose leaf. Rhodia, Clairefontaine, Red Black all nice, but also a lot more expensive. For student use, can't beat Staples.

 

Dan

[David_W]

The original poster is in the UK. We do have Staples over here, though inevitably the range of paper products is different to Staples in the US, not least because it will be European size paper. I've never seen "Made in Brazil" paper in the UK, though maybe that's because I've never looked in the right places.

 

When I was first at university 20 years ago, cheap A4 pads from W H Smith (the nearest thing we had to Staples back then) or the campus store were fountain pen compatible, as was cheap two hole punched lined paper sold in bulk to schools. Looking back at those notes I've held on to, all this paper is clearly far short of archival quality - it's yellowed considerably and the ink (blue black Quink with Solv-X, which was about the best we could easily get at the time, but notorious for a teal shift on poor paper) has gone teal and faded horribly.

 

It is worth paying for good quality paper and ink if the original poster feels they might want to keep any of their notes in paper form over the longer term. It didn't cross my mind at the time, so I have to live with the degraded state of the material now. Another option would be to scan the notes, which is easy if you have a fast duplex sheetfed scanner and painful otherwise.

 

 

The cheapest 160 page (80 sheets) pads at Staples UK are just under £2 - in bulk, you'll get close to £1.50 per pad if Staples still offer 10% off in store with an NUS Extra card. The picture on the Staples UK web site shows "Made in Germany", though this is the sort of inexpensive high volume product where Staples may well order from whichever supplier quotes the lowest price every time they order, rather than sticking with the same supplier.

 

The cheapest Staples pad is around a third the price of Rhodia - but if it's not fountain pen compatible, it's a waste of money. Pukka Pads are a little more, but I though I'd ready somewhere that they don't perform that well with fountain pens.

 

By the time you're getting into the premium brands that Staples carry (Oxford, Cambridge, Black and Red), you're getting much closer to the price of Rhodia and still have no guarantee of fountain pen compatibility, or that the paper's performance with fountain pens won't change between purchases. Rhodia is not perfect, but it is pretty much a known quantity, as it's all made by Clairefontaine in France.

 

 

If I was in the original poster's position and was happy to settle for possible deterioration of the written pages after a few years, I'd attempt to get samples from a range of pads. If the store won't give away free samples, I'd spend £10-15 buying a range of pads as samples. I'd then try them immediately, outside the store, before buying a large quantity of the cheapest pad (assessed by price per sheet) that performs acceptably well. The immediate purchase gives the best chance of them all being from the same batch, though it's quite possible that what is on the shelf comes from several different batches. If you can persuade the store to open a new case, sell you one pad to try and give you a couple of hours to return to buy more from the newly opened case, that's probably worth doing.

 

Any sample pads that don't make the grade can be given away as gifts to friends who don't use fountain pens. Few students will turn down free paper!

 

If the original poster tells the store that he needs the paper to be fountain pen compatible, the store sells him a pad as fountain pen compatible and it isn't, he can return the pad as unfit for purpose (section 14(3) Sale of Goods Act 1979) though he really needs some sort of evidence.

 

 

I buy Rhodia No. 20 because the limited number of sheets I use makes the additional cost per sheet affordable. If I was writing as much as I did at university 20 years ago on a student budget, I couldn't afford to use such expensive paper.

 

The next time I go anywhere near a Staples store, I'll buy one of their cheap own brand pads to see how well it performs with fountain pens. I can always give it to someone who doesn't use fountain pens if it's as bad as I fear. Unfortunately the only Staples I pass regularly closed last year.

 

 

If unlined paper is acceptable, I put Mondi iQ Selection 80gsm in my office laser printer, which works very well with all the fountain pen ink I've tried on it. In the quantities we get through, the price isn't too bad - you can easily get down to 1.5p per sheet if you buy enough of the stuff, though I challenge any student to get through 20 reams during their degree (10,000 sheets)! You can pay 0.62p per sheet for cheap laser printer paper, but I remind myself that the toner is a far greater proportion of the costs of a printed page than the paper. I've always found iQ Selection an excellent all-round performer that doesn't leave a load of debris in the printer.

 

Printer paper is probably not the best option for note taking unless you're happy using unbound blank sheets. If you're going to print lines on it using a laser printer, you've destroyed much of the cost saving over buying good quality lined pads, and the toner is ink resistant which could prove annoying in use.

[DanF]

Sorry I wasn't aware of the origin of the OP. I wish they would dispense with the flags for identifying location (most of which I don't recognize), and just print the location in the heading.

 

One strategy might be to go with unlined paper, and by the end of your time in university you will probably be able to write in straight lines, thus never having to worry about lined paper again.

 

Dan

[Kansas Pen]

If you have a Dollar General near you - go in and take a look for their 7.5 x 9.75 Composition Book "Notables". It has a poly cover and 90 pages.

It costs the grand sum of $1.00.

I just got one this past weekend so I cannot guarantee you have good success with it and I have NOT had it long enough to "Test" it thoroughly.

 

But at the grand sum of $1.00 it is pretty hard to pass the chance it might work for you - and for any of us.

 

I did do a test write and see no obvious sign of feathering. I used several pens from a Namiki Falcon fine up to Parker Duofold Oblique as well as several Chinese medium nibs. I see no feathering problem. There is a slight very light show of the opposite page. The paper is fairly smooth. Seemed a little too smooth for one of my "dry" pens as I had to press down a little to get it to start.

 

The Paper is from India and sewn. It is lined with a left margin.

 

So far the only downsides:

The black fabric covering on the center outside edge is not real well glued. I took one back. I may have to glue my replacement to keep it from loosening. But is does not have any function of holding in the paper - just a finishing piece.

The poly outer shell is fairly firm so it does not lay flat easily. If you rest your hand when you write like I do it won't pose a problem.

 

I will use just the facing sheet on this booklet. I don't like to write on the "left hand" opposite side of a book. It makes a waste with expensive paper. At this price it won't be problem. So ink being seen from the opposite side won't be either.

 

I'd appreciate seeing what others that do these awesome reviews think of these composition books. They should be in all the Dollar General Stores. No affiliation - in fact they are a competitor to the company I worked for.

 

Thanks for your opinion.