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Does Whiteness Of The Whale Matter For Achieving Color Mixes?

noodlers whiteness of the whale mixing ink

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6 replies to this topic

#1 vossad01

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 02:08

I bought Noodler's Whiteness of the Whale (WotW) because I was not sure whether it would make a difference in trying to mix colors, but read some indications suggesting it would.  Below are the results of an experiment to try to answer the question.

 

Strathmore Writing (25% cotton, natural white, wove, 24lb):

13859448724_55d5d384dd.jpg

 

 

Georgia Pacific Multipurpose Paper (20 lb, bright white, Walmart):

13859084225_8131aefae7.jpg

 

 

Unless otherwise indicated the writing is from a dipped Jinhao X750.

I learned more definitively the things I did wrong in the above and things I should have done differently than actually answering the question.

 

From the above my current inclination is that the answer is either "inconclusive" or "no".  The inks definitely behave very differently: the WotW mix is "chalky" and does not shade as much and ink diluted with water to that degree has too much surface tension to be consistent when dipping as I was.   With respect to color I am not sure there is any difference that cannot be explained by the different behavior of the ink.  There is some slight variation in color (more visible in the scan I think), but it is such that I am not sure I can say it is significant given the other sources or error in my method.

 

I think I will need to actually load them in a FP and write with them for a time to see if I learn anything more.  I suspect one of the big behavior differences to be when the ink starts to dry on the nib, I know the water dilution will darken; but I suspect that will be less the case with the WotW mix.  Though I think the WotW mix would dry-out/clog more quickly in the same situation.

 

Currently I am using a pen loaded with the 1:20 Distilled water mixture after adding some Photo Flo to bring the surface tension down to a usable level.  I maybe will make another post on that after a time because amazingly the ink is rather usable after being diluted 20x (!) and the color looks to me to be very similar to Diamine Beau Blue from this Month's ink drop (probably a little less red than Beau Blue).

 

I thought i was going to try this experiment with a few inks to show the various results, but after not finding anything interesting here and knowing how much time this took probably won't bother.

 

The WotW mix definitely looks cooler though, especially if you will be putting it in a demonstrator:

13859441554_195c3384ef_n.jpg

 

Hopefully this is helpful to someone.  I would be interested in knowing whether others have experience that corroborates or refutes my findings.



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#2 amberleadavis

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:57

I haven't used WoW for mixing. I do love Ghost Blue for mixing.  I'd suggest trying to put those samples under a UV light.  Also, test how permanent the ink is.    How did the flow change?


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#3 Sandy1

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 14:05

Hi,

 

Many thanks for the samples! :thumbup:

 

From my very brief exploration of using NWotW in a blend, I found that there is slightly more opacity to a blend using NWotW than water. Consequently using NWotW allows the paper surface to be fully dyed, suppressing show-through of the paper's base tint which shifts the ink's hue.

 

I have yet to find a discernible benefit to blending NWotW with a highly saturated ink, though I usually put a halt to dilution at ~40% concentration (2 parts ink + 3 parts water), so should one choose to dilute to a lower concentration, NWotW might come into play as a means to retain performance of the medium from say 60% downward. (To date he only ink I thought was a keeper at 10% concentration was Sailor sei-boku.)

 

Also, as NWotW is a member of Noodler's family of bullet-proof inks, blends with inks outside that family have a greater exposure to the risk of an 'unsafe' result.

 

IMHO the chalky aspect of a blend which includes NWotW isn't quite 'worth it' - I'd rather change to a pure White paper or switch ink as work-arounds.

 

Even though there isn't all so much general interest in pale inks, (my Review of ESSRI has more views than Herbin Bleu Azur), I reckon those inks do have a place in my array when I want what's written to cast no more than a tinted shadow upon the page.

 

I for one certainly look forward to your future explorations.

 

Bye,

S1


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#4 amberleadavis

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 18:35

What she said....

 

Well, what I meant to say is that I found the experiment interesting.  I don't know that I will be adding WoW to any of my inks because I hate the chalky look, but I love using it on black or super dark paper.  It makes me happy.


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#5 vossad01

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 05:08

 

 



I'd suggest trying to put those samples under a UV light.  Also, test how permanent the ink is.

 

Unfortunately, I have no UV light so won't be able to show that.  For permanence, I knew it was not very because if you look at the WotW swatch on the Walmart paper, you can see the result of a drop of water (well water+photo flo) from a needle I set there after removing from a syringe.

 

It seems wasteful to me to just flush ink from a pen even when dipping it, so generally try to write it out.  Which is how I got this page.

 

13918800823_7cb2d3ddcd.jpg

 

The left column below the other colored ink is the water mix, while the rest is mostly WotW.  It took a couple days to get you this since it required getting it to to work for scanning both before and after:

 

13918796463_3e6e8ac862_n.jpg13895634642_b241937721_n.jpg

 

These are on the Strathmore paper and were done by running the page under the tap.  When I saw the after-scan I realized it made it look worse than it actually was so I took a picture too.  Of course I happened to set the paper in a water spot when I went to take the picture which is the spot you see in the middle of the page.  To be honest, it fared better than I expected, but still not very resistant.

 

 



How did the flow change?

Flow was pretty much nonexistent by water at all by 20x; I put a little in a pen and even though the nib was just immersed in the ink for filling it did not write.  That is when I moved some to another vial and added some Photo Flo which has it writing nicely. IIRC it was by about 6 that I was noticing even when dipping that flow was greatly reduced.

 

The WotW mixes were consistent. This was my first writing with WotW I definitely understand that chalky feel now, but I need to actually load it up in a pen and write with it for a while before I can make judgement on what my opinion of that flow is.

 




I do love Ghost Blue for mixing.

 

That was one of the things I thought I should have done differently.  Acquire Blue Ghost (its clear, right?) to mix with to keep a more consistent flow or else mix with a photo flo solution for the same reason, as the higher surface tension of water made the dipping less consistent.

The other was to used a better tuned pen.  During this process I realized the one I was using really needed some work (I now know my first victim for figuring out how to smooth a nib).  I thought for time I was the inks/dilution, but that ended up not being the case.

 

 



 I don't know that I will be adding WoW to any of my inks because I hate the chalky look, but I love using it on black or super dark paper.

I thought I had read that WotW dries clear so does not work for writing white on dark paper so hadn't even tried that.  Guess I will need to find some dark paper.

 

 

 

Thanks for the detailed information Sandy1.  I think you make a good point about the opacity if using colored papers.

 

So search can actually find this if need be, I wanted to note that the pictures depict dilution Noodler's Navajo Turquoise with Distilled Water and Whiteness of the Whale at various concentrations.


Edited by vossad01, 18 April 2014 - 05:12.


#6 amberleadavis

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 17:38

Ooo Thank you.


Fountain pens are my preferred COLOR DELIVERY SYSTEM (in part because crayons melt in Las Vegas).

 

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#7 vossad01

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Posted 19 June 2014 - 17:48

I have a little more data on this question from doing some dilution of Shah's Rose.  At this point I am of the opinion that yes, WotW has a place in ink mixing though it is not a "must-have" for making light colors.  I am not entirely sure it has a great impact on the color so much as it brings along different ink properties that causes the ink to look different.  However, these differences may be significant enough to be sought after.  At this point I think I am comfortable saying there are ink looks on the page that can be achieved with WotW that can not be created with water alone, if only because of property differences.

 

To get a better idea of the subtleties of what is possible with WotW and not with Water, I think investigation would need to be one on mixes that are not so greatly diluted.  That is, mixes where the majority is not the dilutant.







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