Ebay

[KBeezie]

If I want to buy a 'grail pen' in perfect condition then with the exception of a very few buyers I won't go to the Bay.

 

On the other hand, I'm willing to risk a few pounds or euros on a murky picture of what's possibly quite a nice pen, and am not infrequently rewarded. I've quite often got vintage pens for less than the price of the (identifiable) nib.

 

I also love the way eBay throws up surprises in wicked celluloids from time to time.

 

But I have noticed a lot of rather crazy pricing recently - though I've also noticed a lot of items ending their auctions without a bid. I think a lot of sellers now are adopting the strategy of starting with a high price and gradually reducing it till it sells. On ebay.fr, which has much less traffic than the UK or US sites, I see the same items coming up again and again and never selling, and every time, a few of them will have their prices cut.

 

 

1) Definitely agree with the grail pen comment, if it's going to be your most prized pen, deserves a little more of a discerning approach to acquiring it.

 

2) pretty sure all the ebay sites are the same with the exception of filtering out where sellers will sell (ie: if it doesn't show up on .com but does on .fr , means the seller likely doesn't intend to sell to someone in your country, but if you're logged in, all the domains are going to be about the same).

[lahlahlaw]

I've bought over 100 pens on eBay, and I can't really say that I've been burned. I take calculated risks, and yes, sometimes I end up with parts pens, but it's a thrill to get something really sweet for a fraction of its value (my Pelikan R200 snake rollerball for $12).

 

Like Bruce, One seller recently banned me for making a low ball offer - jeez!!

[Bass Culture]

As most others have said - essentially, caveat emptor. That said, I recently bought a P21 special (I think!) for a very reasonable price which was 'sold as seen' by the seller. I was going to use it to try some refurb techniques on so that wasn't a problem. However, when it turned up it became apparent that it had two substantial hairline cracks in the section which meant the connector/feed weren't properly sealed and it was therefore impossible - for me at least - to use it without it leaking ink all over the place. When I hit the seller for a refund he initially pointed out that it was 'sold as seen' and I therefore had no comeback. However, when I replied that I had no problem with something being 'sold as seen' as long as all potential damage/issues actually could be seen on the photos or were pointed out in the description, and that his photos were not detailed enough to reasonably identify these cracks, he relented and I got my money back. The point being that, although he probably wasn't happy about it, my reasonable observation was ultimately met with a reasonable response form the seller; I'm sure because both of us had a vested interest in continuing to use ebay as a means of transacting. I didn't 'kick off' (as they say on this side of the pond) and neither did he. It might be a struggle sometimes when you really think you've been shafted but simple courtesy can go a hell of a long way towards resolving a dispute.

[my63]

I remember some time ago reading a detailed post by Bruce in Ocala regarding contacting sellers and not being worried about asking questions this advice has stood me in good stead,

Not just in buying pens but also writing slopes (which are another obsession of mine) two of which were significant finds.

If in doubt ask questions if you don't like the answer then ask more questions then if you still don't like the answers then move on.

 

So thanks Bruce

 

Michael

[Left FPN]

I have 500+ ebay transactions with only 4 problems, 2 of which were resolved by refunds or returning the items. The other 2 were just very stuborn people not wishing to take the items back by not providing return addresses. All were resolved one way or tother by Paypal. As many will also know I have had some very good deals.

[pajaro]

Been burned twice - NEVER again!

 

If you have been burned twice (out of how many times ?) then there might be something faulty in your approach that left you vulnerable.

 

Too many fakes, misrepresentations, and garage sale junk finds.

 

Fakes and misrepresentations can occur in any kind of sale, and I have seen them in brick and mortar shops as well.

 

Garage sale junk finds are actually some of the beauty of ebay. Items you need that are no longer available anywhere -- a handle for this faucet, or for a dresser -- this kind of item can be a good find. I have sometimes been pleasantly surprised by finding something I never thought possible. One person's minefield can be another's opportunity. Much depends on the attitude with which you approach something.

 

I have found pens and pen parts on ebay that I thought were gone forever.

 

If you are a poor ebay shopper, you probably won't have much better luck with b & m.

[willard]

> The point being that, although he probably wasn't happy about it, my reasonable observation was ultimately met with a reasonable response form the seller; I'm sure because both of us had a vested interest in continuing to use ebay as a means of transacting.

 

I think this hits the crux of the matter in more than one way.

 

People like eBay because it provide a game experience they like. Most people don't like eBay for the opposite reason: they don't like the game experience eBay offers. This could be related to the way we want to manage our time. Fishermen love to brag about catching free meals, less about waking up at four and fishing until noon. I think this applies even more to sellers: I don't know how it could be a profitable venture, unless one goes all in and become a professional picker with an enormous knowledge base.

 

In other words, we mainly go on eBay for the kicks. But if we abstract away the extra work that applies to both seller and buyer, the decision not to go on eBay could be related to loss aversion:

 

 

Loss aversion sounds like an odd label, because it might seem perfectly reasonable to be averse to losses. Technically speaking, loss aversion is something more than that: it is a disproportionate anxiety about losses. When we pass up excellent opportunities to make larger gains, purely because we are desperate to avoid small losses, that is loss aversion at work.

 

http://timharford.com/2013/01/2013-the-year-i-plan-to-fail/

 

 

Also note that our aversion to loss may vary from one domain to the next. How many of us prefer insured mail? Personally, I believe it's a rip-off, since mailing services are way more reliable than the insurance cost makes it seems. The same applies to extended warranties for most stuff. But then, that people don't gamify their mailing experience or electronic purchases is quite normal.

Edited April 17, 2014 by willard

[Left FPN]

> I don't know how it could be a profitable venture, unless one goes all in and become a professional picker with an enormous knowledge base.

Nor do I.......... £30 bought me a job lot of nibs, which comprised of around 40 of all makes. I sold most in pairs or individual for a total of £350 keeping around 5 Waterman ones for myself.

[OcalaFlGuy]

I remember some time ago reading a detailed post by Bruce in Ocala regarding contacting sellers and not being worried about asking questions this advice has stood me in good stead,

Not just in buying pens but also writing slopes (which are another obsession of mine) two of which were significant finds.

If in doubt ask questions if you don't like the answer then ask more questions then if you still don't like the answers then move on.

 

So thanks Bruce

 

Michael

 

Thanks Michael, I'm happy to hear it helped you.

 

Mike is referencing the root reason behind my term Braille bidder. I like to illustrate it with a hypothetical situation.

 

You notice a ring on the shelf of a jewelry store that gets your interest but you can't see it very well from outside the store so in you go. The store owner says, No, I can't let you look at it. No, I'm sorry, I can't let you hold it. No, I also can't answer any other questions about it for you.

 

Would you still buy that ring? Of course you wouldn't.

 

Unless of course, that store was named Ebay, There, Braille bidders shop that way every single day...

 

Friend don't let friends Braille bid.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[Left FPN]

 

Thanks Michael, I'm happy to hear it helped you.

 

Mike is referencing the root reason behind my term Braille bidder. I like to illustrate it with a hypothetical situation.

 

You notice a ring on the shelf of a jewelry store that gets your interest but you can't see it very well from outside the store so in you go. The store owner says, No, I can't let you look at it. No, I'm sorry, I can't let you hold it. No, I also can't answer any other questions about it for you.

 

Would you still buy that ring? Of course you wouldn't.

 

Unless of course, that store was named Ebay, There, Braille bidders shop that way every single day...

 

Friend don't let friends Braille bid.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

to add, you see a Waterman pen titled Watermen fountin pan (sellers spelling errors). The pictures show a real nice RR No 8 nib all in mint condition. It's at $5 right up to the last day. You know if you ask a question the seller ticks the 'Show questions' box...now you don't want to let everyone know what you are asking do you.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Force

[OcalaFlGuy]

<Whispering; In my experience, sellers post questions and answer Back to the listing Less Than 1/4 of the time.>

 

The sellers that are too damn lazy to learn about the item they are selling to make more money are also too damn lazy to post the questions which might also get them more money.

 

There is only one thing better than needed intel you get back from a seller. When YOU are the Only bidder who GETS that intel.

 

For me personally, this is usually a bit painful. I often get back an answer that has me avoid the item like the plague. But I know that since the seller didn't post the question back, some poor Braille bidder is going to "Win" himself a garbage pen. And there's not anything I can do to help them...

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[willard]

> I sold most in pairs or individual for a total of £350 keeping around 5 Waterman ones for myself.

 

Well played, Sir!

 

Now divide that by hours, taking into account your other deals and other possible cost opportunities.

 

As a possible cost opportunity, consider this:

 

In 2000, Brad Barber and Terrance Odean studied the trading performance of more than 65,000 retail investors with accounts at a large discount broker. Looking at the early 1990s – happy days for investors – Barber and Odean found that while an index reflecting US stock markets returned 17.9 per cent a year, the investors who traded most actively earned just 11.4 per cent a year – a huge shortfall that becomes even more dramatic after a few years of compounding.

 

http://timharford.com/2014/04/how-investors-get-it-wrong/

 

There are myriads ways to be worse than those investors who got 11.4 - eBay may be one of them.

Edited April 17, 2014 by willard

[Crazyorange]

This thread is amazing. I'm learning a lot from you folks. Thank you.

[pajaro]

> I sold most in pairs or individual for a total of £350 keeping around 5 Waterman ones for myself.

 

Well played, Sir!

 

Now divide that by hours, taking into account your other deals and other possible cost opportunities.

 

As a possible cost opportunity, consider this:

 

 

http://timharford.com/2014/04/how-investors-get-it-wrong/

 

There are myriads ways to be worse than those investors who got 11.4 - eBay may be one of them.

 

Consider though, that this is a hobby. Hobbies are usually a money sump, you just pour it down the drain for amusement. So, if you can salvage something from your hobby expenditure on pens, it is not quite the same thing as if your hobby is investing in something financial. You could, of course, choose to view everything as an investment, such as eating being an investment in continued life, but that is kind of overthinking it. The thing about daytraders, they often let their other experiences color their trading, they get into something they think they know the market for, and somebody takes them to the cleaners. Overtrading, yeah, it has its points, but it's not the same as salvaging something from the money pit.

 

It gets back to the marvelous thing about ebay: countless sellers salvaging items from the trash heap and offering them to eager buyers who would otherwise never find the item on offer. Recycling stuff back into the marketplace, pickers if you will, but don't demean them. They are providing a useful service.

[willard]

> Consider though, that this is a hobby.

 

I heartily agree. As I said, we mainly go on eBay for the kicks. As a hobby, it sure can be fun, as I myself find it fun!

 

And I'll be the first to brag about the profit made out of Force's bargains: not only he can enjoy his stories, but I too! "Darling, why do you say I am wasting my evenings on eBay while you watch your (sotto voce, boring to death) series? Some day, I'll be as good as this guy who makes 1000% by buying nibs in bulk! Just watch me."

 

Just like Borgès' short stories where weapons had their own agency, I believe that, in the end, we do this for the pens. The pens are certainly happier to have us around.

Edited April 17, 2014 by willard

[wastelanded]

To me, eBay is for fun. I use it strictly for bargain-hunting. I've pulled a couple of gold rings out of the manure pile.

[Ron_L]

When I purchase something on ebay, I do not leave feedback for a while. You have 90 days to leave feedback. If the product I ordered is fine with no issues, I gladly leave great feedback. If there is an issue, which is rare, if the problem won't be resolved, the feedback is negative. I've yet to leave negative.

 

With regards to knowing your buyer on ebay, I do some research. For instance, let's say I want to buy a certain FP. There are many vendors selling the same pen. First I eliminate any seller with less than 99% positive feedback. I prefer they have a minimum of 500 sells. I look at all the pricing. Then I pick one. I click the auction and the first thing I look for (Buy it Now auctions), is how many others have already bought this item. Then, I click the sellers feedback number. I read several pages of their sales. What I'm looking for is comments about the exact item I want to by. If it's overwhelmingly happy little camper comments, then I feel good about the purchase. It's nice to have buyers before you be very pleased with the item you also want.

 

With regards to auction items that are say 5 or 7 days, that is different. I look at this person's feedback. I want to know what they sell. If you are considering spending $100 or more on an item, it's generally best to buy from, A) a person with better than 99% feedback, B)preferably over 500 feedback, but much prefer over 1000, and C) their sales are primarily of the same or like item with some consistency. In other words, buy pens from a pen sales person, not a tire sales person. Sure there is that odd occasion where the tire sales person found a vintage pen hiding inside the rim of a car when he changed tires. Uh . . . sure. But short of perhaps a seller who does flea markets or garage sales and everything they offer is of vintage stock, beware!

 

Yes you can get fleeced, but usually by not doing extensive homework first.

[Left FPN]

> I sold most in pairs or individual for a total of £350 keeping around 5 Waterman ones for myself.

 

Well played, Sir!

 

Now divide that by hours, taking into account your other deals and other possible cost opportunities.

 

As a possible cost opportunity, consider this:

 

 

http://timharford.com/2014/04/how-investors-get-it-wrong/

 

There are myriads ways to be worse than those investors who got 11.4 - eBay may be one of them.

I do it for fun....

[LindaM]

lahlahlaw: if it makes more sense about getting banned for a lowball offer - I've sold quite a bit of my things on craigslist lately, and I've learned to ignore such offers. I don't know what you term lowball (and don't take the following description personally. I'm describing others), but my rapidly-becoming-jaded definition (unreasonably low offer, trying to take advantage of the seller) usually goes along with other behaviors once negotiations begin. Such as repeatedly insulting the seller, initially making a somewhat lower offer and on its acceptance then lowering it even further plus making demands like "deliver it to me [60 miles away]", as well as outright attempts at scamming. I won't even answer a response that sounds like a lowballer anymore, as I'm not willing to take the abuse. You may have come across a seller that has dealt with too many such 'buyers'. Some perecentage of people are out to jerk other people around. They're best avoided.

 

pajaro: I do hope you're not starting to regret the pens I sold you Tell me, if so.

[DrCodfish]

Most of the pens (admittedly not many, maybe 30 or so) have turned out to be just about as expected; either because they were well described, or because I was lucky enough to ask a question and get an answer that lit up the gray areas. Of those that were surprises, the good to great surprises have outweighed the not so good surprises 3 or 4 to 1.

 

I live out in the country, outside a hick town of 600 souls (including those in the surrounding area such as myself) so Ebay is useful for aquiring 'stuff', never miond the entertainment value.