Bbc Blows Pen Details In Historical Documentary

[dcwaites]

Was the documentary 'made' by the BBC, or by some outside company that then flogged it 'to' the BBC? And no, you would never have used a dip pen in the field, you would have used a pencil. All my field notebooks had a loop with pencil inserted.

 

The most recently dated film I have seen which had a dip pen was Psycho.

5 virtual Maltesers to the first to quote the scene.

[sotto2]

When she signs in to the Bates Motel?

[Ink Stained Wretch]

 

These portable writing sets were used by the upper class before the Victorian era, where they expected all the comfort of home wherever they went. Do not forget policemen in Victorian times were not at all well paid, so they would have used woodcase pencils for field notes, dip pens would have been really impractical.

 

For some time into the 19^th Century wood cased pencils were not exactly cheap. The scenes I was referring to with the fountain pen were in the police station house, Scotland Yard's offices. Dip pens would definitely have been what they'd use.

[Ink Stained Wretch]

I realize they have a budget to consider, and research costs $$$, but at what point is accuracy sacrificed to fill time on the screen? And how does that inaccuracy reflect on the movie/program as a whole? If that is not accurate...what else is not accurate.

 

Some things are going to be hard to research, but fountain pens in the 1840s, should really raise a question for anyone. And it was a fountain pen that was obviously of a style no older than the 1990s.

 

I think it's an artifact of kids not getting taught history even in places other than the U.S.A. I have observed lots of people who are now starting to push middle age who are amazingly ignorant of history and it's because they were never really taught it in school.

 

With all of the people involved in such a production, someone should have caught that flub - IMO.

[Ink Stained Wretch]

Was the documentary 'made' by the BBC, or by some outside company that then flogged it 'to' the BBC?

 

I do not know that detail. It did have “BBC” stamped on it though, so I would expect that they'd have examined it before putting their logos on it.

[KBeezie]

 

Some things are going to be hard to research, but fountain pens in the 1840s, should really raise a question for anyone. And it was a fountain pen that was obviously of a style no older than the 1990s.

 

I think it's an artifact of kids not getting taught history even in places other than the U.S.A. I have observed lots of people who are now starting to push middle age who are amazingly ignorant of history and it's because they were never really taught it in school.

 

With all of the people involved in such a production, someone should have caught that flub - IMO.

 

Though they did have piston/twist filling pens before 1840. (though I imagine they were somewhat large and prohibitively expensive)

Edited April 14, 2014 by KBeezie

[theverdictis]

I just typed into google about the met and writing equipment. It brought up a website called ringpen.com, which has a history of the fountain pen stating "A metal pen point has been patented in 1803 but patent was not commercially exploited. Steel nibs came into common use in the 1830s. By the 19th century metal nibs had replaced quill pens. By 1850 quill pen usage was fading and the quality of the steel nibs had been improved by tipping them with hard alloys of Iridium, Rhodium and Osmium".

 

Ben

[Ink Stained Wretch]

I just typed into google about the met and writing equipment. It brought up a website called ringpen.com, which has a history of the fountain pen stating "A metal pen point has been patented in 1803 but patent was not commercially exploited. Steel nibs came into common use in the 1830s. By the 19th century metal nibs had replaced quill pens. By 1850 quill pen usage was fading and the quality of the steel nibs had been improved by tipping them with hard alloys of Iridium, Rhodium and Osmium".

 

Yes, there was a patent issue with steel pens, as they were called. IIRC the guy patented them and everyone waited till his patent ran out before they started making their own steel pens and marketing them.

 

I recall seeing a really forceful magazine article from a mid-19^th Century magazine once where the author was just blasting away at steel pens. They made it so that penmanship was dying, he said. No one could read anyone else's handwriting anymore because people were not using quills. The imminent death of Western Civilization was prophesied as a result, as usual.

 

Yeah, people got really huffy about these new fangled writing implements. Of course we woudn't do that today, would we ?

[dcwaites]

I believe the original steel pens were hand crafted, making them much more expensive than quills, which were at the time hand-cut commercially.

It wasn't until later in the 19th Century that stamping machines were precise enough to make them cheaply. By the end of the 1800s Britain alone was making over 1 billion steel pen nibs a year.

[Inkysloth]

I believe the original steel pens were hand crafted, making them much more expensive than quills, which were at the time hand-cut commercially.

It wasn't until later in the 19th Century that stamping machines were precise enough to make them cheaply. By the end of the 1800s Britain alone was making over 1 billion steel pen nibs a year.

The vast majority of these from Birmingham! http://www.penroom.co.uk/

[Charles Rice]

OK, so we nit-pick

 

Try it yourself. Make a documentary about some thing that happened in say 1849 and get everything right. It's close to impossible.

[KBeezie]

OK, so we nit-pick

 

Try it yourself. Make a documentary about some thing that happened in say 1849 and get everything right. It's close to impossible.

 

I imagine if some of the historical re-enactors had the technical know-how for audio/video they would be like "Challenge Accepted".

[Inkysloth]

OK, so we nit-pick

 

Try it yourself. Make a documentary about some thing that happened in say 1849 and get everything right. It's close to impossible.

 

Of course it is, but where's the fun in just blithely letting anachronistic mistakes slide by?!

 

Besides, it wouldn't have taken more than 5 minutes with Professor Google to check whether a modern pen was even half appropriate for the era. If they had an advisor from the Scotland Yard archive, they would have known whether records were kept with dip pens, pencils, or some kind of highly advanced experimental writing device brought back from the future!

 

Edit to add: a particular bugbear of mine is when documents / magazines / books in films set 50+ years ago (and filmed as though contemporary) are aged and yellowed... They would have been crisp and clean and new! Agh! It's a little thing, and I appreciate they are using original materials, but they wouldn't have been aged back then.

 

Ahem. Taking a calming breath and sipping my tea again.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Inkysloth

[Ink Stained Wretch]

OK, so we nit-pick

 

It's hardly nit picking to call attention to a glaring error like that in a BBC historical documentary.

 

Anyone doing historical research at all of that period will see what people were writing with, there are a great many drawings, paintings and photographs of people with steel dip pens or quills in their hands from then. And there is the ubiquitous ink pot in those same graphics.

 

Simple familiarization with the period of the mid-19^th Century would give people of today the idea that they were writing with different things from what people write with today. It is not a deep research subject to see that a chrome trimmed fountain pen, cap and all, are not authentic in a depiction of something happening in the first half of the 19^th Century.

 

But where would you draw the line? Would it still be nitpicking if they had shown telephones in the police station? Would the police driving automobiles be all right?

 

 

Try it yourself.

 

I've done a number of things not so different from that and I've paid attention to the details.

 

 

Make a documentary about some thing that happened in say 1849 and get everything right. It's close to impossible.

 

Not if people pay attention. You set the bar way too low.