Bbc Blows Pen Details In Historical Documentary

[Ink Stained Wretch]

I watched a PBS show from the BBC about the history of Scotland Yard a couple of months ago. I was surprised to see the documentary reenacting some famous cases using a very anachronistic pen!

 

They talked about some detective of the 1840s, going after the crooks scientifically. He's shown writing things down, making a catalog of the MOs of crimes and the criminals who use them. And in the 1840s, they have the actor doing this using what looks like a 1990s, fountain pen with black barrel, section and cap with chromed trim and clip.

 

Of course in the 1840s, the detective would have used a dip pen. Here he took a pen out of his pocket and just unscrewed the cap and began writing. I forget if he posted the cap.

 

They then went on to some reenactments of later Scotland Yard detectives' work to the mid-19^th Century, and they used the same fountain pen every time!

 

Yes, there was never an ink pot to be seen at any time in these scenes.

 

I was rather amazed that the BBC made a mess of these details. Someone was not paying adequate attention during the production of this historical documentary. This blown detail certainly distracted me from the message of the documentary.

[KBeezie]

Only we would really notice that... to any one else in the home audience most of them look at a FP and think that's ancient. But yea... 1840s, you would have had a little bottle of ink with you just to be able to write, the pen and ink container wouldn't ever be separated. If memory serves correctly, there were probably small metal vials that you could just uncap to dip into so could hold the ink in one hand between fingers while dipping with the other. (though for some reason not sure it would be metal at all... think the ink would have corroded any metal containment.)

 

I wonder what BBC would say if you call em on it.

 

Even Sheaffer knew this in the 50s (10 minute mark or so)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xUDehNvbrE

Edited April 13, 2014 by KBeezie

[ISW_Kaputnik]

Someone who had to write on the go would probably have used a wood pencil. They did have those. But yes, back in the office it would be dip pens.

[KBeezie]

Someone who had to write on the go would probably have used a wood pencil. They did have those. But yes, back in the office it would be dip pens.

 

Back when there was real lead in them?

 

I wonder if they had like a portable set for pens. Like a tiny little popup table with a place to unpack your ink well, and paper, and such. Dunno, probably like something below?

 

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/hh/37/images/hh37e1.jpg

Edited April 13, 2014 by KBeezie

[Charles Rice]

Back when there was real lead in them?

 

A mix of graphite and clay.

[KBeezie]

Back when there was real lead in them?

 

A mix of graphite and clay.

... I was lied to as a kid...

[Inkysloth]

*shakes head*

 

I expect better of the BBC!

[KBeezie]

*shakes head*

 

I expect better of the BBC!

 

Too busy making sure Doctor Who is accurate...

[Charles Rice]

KBeezie -

 

Thanks for the flick. Takes me back to threading the 16mm projector in grade school.

[KBeezie]

KBeezie -

 

Thanks for the flick. Takes me back to threading the 16mm projector in grade school.

 

Done that as well, except wasn't as part of school but because I worked in a camera shop that dealt with that stuff on a regular basis (which by the time I worked there, they were already antiquities).

 

I even photographed my son on the 35mm projector we had in the front of the store.

 

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs22/f/2007/349/b/0/b0b5fca80ad8e688.jpg

(yes, there's a reel in there, but can't remember which film it was).

Edited April 13, 2014 by KBeezie

[Charles Rice]

I like the photo. I work in a camera shop from about 1974 to 1984.

 

Did the 35mm projector still work?

Edited April 13, 2014 by Charles Rice

[Ink Stained Wretch]

 

Back when there was real lead in them?

 

Wood cased pencils never had lead, as in Pb, in their interiors. Nor did mechanical pencils. Lead was last used for inscribing text or graphics by the ancient Romans.

 

Now the paint on a wood cased pencil used to frequently contain lead, but that was true of a great many paints back in the old days, and that's not done anymore.

[carlos.q]

I wonder if they had like a portable set for pens. Like a tiny little popup table with a place to unpack your ink well, and paper, and such. Dunno, probably like something below?

 

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/hh/37/images/hh37e1.jpg

One of these portable desks was used by a British officer in two different scenes, in the first episode of the new series "Turn" on AMC. The events in the series occur in 1776 and there are no fountain pens.

[inkstainedruth]

*shakes head*

 

I expect better of the BBC!

I knew a bunch of people who complained about the most recent Robin Hood series that BBC did a few years ago. Whined about how "it's the BBC, they should have made it accurate". I said it was entertaining fluff, and that I wasn't expecting historical accuracy from a TV show.

That being said, yeah, in a documentary they should have been more careful. But there are an awful lot of goofs that get listed for movies and TV shows on IMDB....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[ac12]

WW-II documentaries are BAD.

- Palm trees in Germany ???

- European villages in the Pacific ???

- German planes in the Pacific ??? OK the Japanese did have some planes that looked somewhat similar to German planes, but that is the exception to the rule.

They regularly mix up Pacific theater film with European theater film.

And the same footage on both Pacific and European theater films.

Yeah only a nerd would notice.

I try to forget the mess ups, or I would get upset at the program.

But that taught me that documentaries, no matter who makes them, cannot be assumed to be accurate. And what did they say about ASS-U-ME...

 

I realize they have a budget to consider, and research costs $$$, but at what point is accuracy sacrificed to fill time on the screen? And how does that inaccuracy reflect on the movie/program as a whole? If that is not accurate...what else is not accurate.

 

BTW, while Downton Abbey is a "soap opera" (like an English version of Dallas) and not a documentary, at least I've seen dip pens in several episodes. I give them credit for trying to be accurate.

Edited April 13, 2014 by ac12

[KBeezie]

I like the photo. I work in a camera shop from about 1974 to 1984.

 

Did the 35mm projector still work?

 

It does, but it's one of those Arc Lamp kinds, so definitely need some ventilation and eye protection if you wanted to fire it up in it's original condition. My boss traded a 60 foot projection screen for it, and mainly sat in the window during christmas time, not sure where it went after the store went out of business late 2007.

[sotto2]

Probably the last time anyone at the BBC cared about such historical accuracy as the fountain pen thing was when Robin Hood was still running around in Sherwood Forest.

[KBeezie]

Probably the last time anyone at the BBC cared about such historical accuracy as the fountain pen thing was when Robin Hood was still running around in Sherwood Forest.

 

The man or the fox?

[Seele]

One of these portable desks was used by a British officer in two different scenes, in the first episode of the new series "Turn" on AMC. The events in the series occur in 1776 and there are no fountain pens.

 

These portable writing sets were used by the upper class before the Victorian era, where they expected all the comfort of home wherever they went. Do not forget policemen in Victorian times were not at all well paid, so they would have used woodcase pencils for field notes, dip pens would have been really impractical.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Seele

[KBeezie]

 

These portable writing sets were used by the upper class before the Victorian era, where they expected all the comfort of home wherever they went. Do not forget policemen in Victorian times were not at all well paid, so they would have used woodcase pencils for field notes, dip pens would have been really impractical.

 

True, though a detective might be a *slight* different scenario.