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Ink Suggesstions For Beginner

ink cartridge beginner flow maintenance

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44 replies to this topic

#21 Tanzanite

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 11:56

parker quink blue sucks.  looks fine going down but dries to a chalky looking pale blue like a bad 1970's tuxedo.
 
Glenn


Could this be caused by the pen? Or is it washable blue that you have used? Or perhsps a bad bottle?
Or we just have different expectation and taste :)

I use Parker Quink Blue for my dry and fine nibs because it leaves good colour on the paper. It also makes pens with a slight scratchiness feel softer.
A good beginner ink. Of all my inks this is the most reliable ink.

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#22 rafizip

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 13:01

This quick string has shown me that I have a lot to learn about inks - it's not just the pen.   :)



#23 Waski_the_Squirrel

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 14:01

I used Parker Quink for years before I started delving into other inks. My only complaint is it is a bit pale for my tastes. Pilot inks (the regular kind) are also pretty reliable and low cost.

 

Right now, I use mostly Noodler's inks. There are a few oddballs (and most retailers label them appropriately). However, most colors in the brand are easy to work with and no more labor intensive than the Pilot or Parker inks I mentioned earlier. I would consider most Noodler's quite easy to get along with and easy to wash out of a pen. (Not so easy to wash out of clothes, but it is ink, after all...)


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#24 amberleadavis

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 15:03

Hi,

 

As I reckon a so-called 'beginners ink' should be a learning experience, today I'll suggest Private Reserve DC Supershow Blue.

 

Using inks that are very fast to clean-up may result in developing lax practices, so ink with a very high dye-load will give you better feedback as to the effectiveness of your clean-up regimen, and allow you to determine your personal Tedium Tolerance Threshold.

 

PRDCSsBl will give you [harmless] negative feedback if mistreated - left lingering for days without use, or in an uncapped or empty pen. That will give you an idea of how your manner of use & handling FPs can be developed. (I consider many problems blamed on ink to be a result of inappropriate handling.)

 

As that ink can be manipulated by simple dilution to give a range of values (light - dark), it will demonstrate how aspects such as chroma (vibrancy) can be fine-tuned in concert with perception of hue.

 

The ink is not without foibles, so using it on various papers will give you an idea of what to look for in terms of line quality, lubricity, smear/dry times, bleed- show-through, etc.

 

During that time you should also be developing a 'proper' grip, and breaking away from habits carried forward from years of using other writing implements.

 

Bye,

S1

 

 

Sandy, I think this TTT test is a brilliant idea.  Amber


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#25 ac12

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 17:56

I second the idea of getting a bunch of samples of the inks that you think you may like, then trying them yourself. 

I have a few samples, that FAILED.  IOW, I thought they would be OK, but when I tried putting ink to paper, I did not like how it looked. 

This will save you $$ in ink that you find out you do not like.


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#26 ac12

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:06

GAtkins, on 04 Apr 2014 - 21:00, said:snapback.png

parker quink blue sucks.  looks fine going down but dries to a chalky looking pale blue like a bad 1970's tuxedo.
 
Glenn

 

 

Could this be caused by the pen? Or is it washable blue that you have used? Or perhsps a bad bottle?
Or we just have different expectation and taste :)

I use Parker Quink Blue for my dry and fine nibs because it leaves good colour on the paper. It also makes pens with a slight scratchiness feel softer.
A good beginner ink. Of all my inks this is the most reliable ink.

 

I have had this experience with a couple different inks.

My experience is that the PEN is likely the culprit.

  • Cross blue (made by Pelikan); pen #1 Parker 51 will come out a lighter blue, #2 Esterbrook LJ will come out dark blue.
  • Sheaffer turquoise; pen #1 Parker 45 will come out a nice turquoise w/o shading, #2 Esterbrook LJ will come out a dark teal with shading.

Both of these are same ink on the same paper, just different pens.

My evaluation is that the WET pen will write darker.

Note however that there are inks that are basically light in color, and a WET pen won't make that much difference.

 

 

However, the paper could also make a difference.  A porous paper will suck the dye into the paper and lighten the ink line, vs a hard paper that will keep most of the dye on top of the paper.

 

My personal experience is that Parker blue is indeed a lighter blue, when compared to Waterman Florida blue (testing with the same pen and the same papers).

 

But, if it works for you, that is all that matters.

I've read reports that did not like Waterman black, whereas for me it looks just fine.


Edited by ac12, 05 April 2014 - 18:07.

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#27 yamaha_no_46

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:24

 It also makes pens with a slight scratchiness feel softer.
 

 

I agree with that. I think the formula contains some material for lubrication which really makes the nib glide over the paper. That is why I like Parker Quink Blue. And the shade is very formal, suitable for signing documents at work.



#28 Shyner

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:29

Thanks for the thoughtful advice. I just need more ink and more pens to try ...... :-)

#29 SallyLyn

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 18:56

I always keep a bottle of Waterman's in my ink supply. Pick a color you like, any will do. The blue, purple or blue-black are the most useful as stand alone ink. The brown is also very nice. Have one bottle to use as a test. My rule is, if a pen is fussy with Waterman something is likely wrong with the pen. I'll also use a small fill of Waterman if I get a used pen that still has old ink after I've tried to clean. The small fill will often clear the rest of the old ink and the Waterman will be easy to rinse out at the end. I go ahead and use the pen with the mixed ink, you can have some interesting colors but most will be blue-black.



#30 ac12

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:04

This quick string has shown me that I have a lot to learn about inks - it's not just the pen.   :)

 

Also the paper.   Paper is not paper. 

 

Inks will behave differently on different paper.  Some paper will blot and feather, and do other ugly things to the ink.  Other papers take a LONG time for the ink to dry.  Some papers will make the ink color look different.  You have to choose the paper appropriately.

 

So to with the pen.  I have paper that I will NOT use my F nib pen on, because they feel too scratchy with a F nib, and become irritating to write on.

 

There are 4 factors/variables to a good writing experience, any one of which can ruin the writing experience.

  • pen
  • ink
  • paper
  • writer

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#31 rafizip

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 19:06

SallyLyn you are right on.  I've been using Waterman Blue-Black for the last couple years and it is my most dependable.



#32 WirsPlm

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 21:39

Interesting! That's good news, because I find the Noodlers Antietam to be an elegant color.

Yeah, most Noodler's inks are just inks and not any more work than any others, it's just a few that are notorious and those are usually labeled as such (Richard Binder's article was written some years ago, is pretty alarmist and should be taken with a grain of salt). There's a few inks to avoid or be careful with in most of the brands with large numbers of inks, especially the ones that have many colors, even Diamine and Montblanc. Of Noodler's inks, the Baystate inks are very weird inks and should be treated very carefully (many people only use them in a dedicated cheap pen), Kung Te Cheng and La Raine Mauve are prone to drying up or clogging (I dilute KTC when I use it and it works great), and the Polar inks are prone to feathering when used in warmer weather. I've had lots of great experiences with Noodler's as have many others.

I especially recommend the Black Swan inks which are a joy to write with and beautiful on the page, they're great to make things a little more interesting and fun to write and read. I like the color of Bad Green Gator and it's great to write with but it tends to feather on cheaper paper.

Edited by WirsPlm, 05 April 2014 - 21:40.


#33 stoof2010

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:17

Double post

Edited by stoof2010, 06 April 2014 - 01:28.

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#34 stoof2010

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:27

Ill add my $.02....
I love noodlers black... best all around black even on the worst of papers...
As far as colors, i would stick with traditional colors. I.e. regular noodlers blue rather than a bulletproof one. I really like noodlers, but otgers may disagree. Thats what makes it great... so many choices, and they are all up to you.
Samples are the best way to go. I like goulet because he shakes the bottles before filling into the sample vials.... this comes in handy with colors that have "sheen" like 1670 rouge hematite and diamine majestic blue.
They also have an ink drop subscription which will automatically send you samples each month....
Cant beat the shading of apache sunset....
Hope this helps.
Best of luck and let us know how the hunt is going!!

Edited by stoof2010, 06 April 2014 - 01:28.

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#35 Enoch_Root

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 04:53

I second the Goulets monthly sample program.  I loved some of my discoveries there.  Chiefly they got me into the Iroshizuku inks.  I love the Shin-Ryoku.

 

My workhorse blue is Private Reserve American Blue.  

 

But try a bunch.  It's fun.  



#36 Sandy1

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:05

 

 

Sandy, I think this TTT test is a brilliant idea.  Amber

 

Hi,

 

Thanks!

 

It's kept me from charging my 51 Vac with Noodler's Kung Te-Chen. :rolleyes:

 

Bye,

S1


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#37 Anoia

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 17:34

I'd suggest samples. 

 

This.

 

parker quink blue sucks.  looks fine going down but dries to a chalky looking pale blue like a bad 1970's tuxedo.

 

Glenn

 

And this.

 

For years Pelikan 4001 royal blue was my go to ink, when another bottle was empty, I bought Quink blue for a change. Never again, looks like it has been diluted with water. -_-

 

Anyway, I really like the Pelikan inks, they are well behaved in any pen. Can recommend.
 



#38 odd_soul

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 19:23

Yes, definitely get samples! Choose a color you like, and buy a bunch of different samples. The swabs you'll see on the computer screen will be different than what the ink actually looks like on the page, and the paper can cause lots of variation. Different inks will work differently in different pens, too. 

 

I will also recommend that you don't buy a bottle of the first color you like. Keep trying samples. I made a couple of rash decisions in the beginning and thus now have a couple of bottles of ink I will probably never use. 



#39 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 20:48

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink, and in that order.

 

You have skinnier than western Japanese nibs...so you will need a bright vivid, boring monotone supersaturated ink. :P

 

When you get a western F or M, then I suggest looking at two toned shading inks. :thumbup: If you have 90 g or better paper...useless to look at them with regular 80g papers.

 

Paper....there is copy paper and writing paper and seldom are they the same. Good to better scribbling paper costs a couple cans of coke or cups of Starbucks coffee more than decent copy paper.

If you are going to waste your time with dirt cheap paper, you might as well go back to ball point or bic disposable fountain pens.

 

Advice I wished I'd followed....for every two bottles of ink you buy, buy a ream or box of good to better paper. In no time at all you will have a very nice collection of nice paper....so you can see what nib and ink dance at midnight.

 

Ink jet paper is a no-no. It is made for fast absorption of ink jet ink.

 

Laser paper is better for fountain pens, 90g paper is better than 80g paper, 100 better than 90g.

 

Combo laser and ink jet paper has to be a compromise in it has to be ink jet friendly. I have some good combo paper but sigh...it's not laser.

 

Go over to Ink Reviews and look up the inks reviewed by Sandy1; our ink and paper guru, :notworthy1: :thumbup: . She uses 4-5 normal pens with different width nibs, on 4-5 different papers you can get if you put your mind to it.

It is amazing what a nib width can do to an ink, or how a paper can make or break an ink.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#40 Moose22

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 21:45

This quick string has shown me that I have a lot to learn about inks - it's not just the pen.   :)

 

Don't worry. You'll discover samples, then you'll REALLY start to see why there are so many inks to choose from. They all have different character for good and for bad. In my stash Waterman works but is boring as hell, Hakodate Twilight is wildly shaded but dries on the nib if you pause for 30 seconds uncapped, DC Supershow needs to be rinsed and rinsed and rinsed when you flush a pen and it NEVER dries on the page... I have many inks all across the fussiness spectrum, but each is attractive in its own way. And some work in one pen better than others -- I have a gusher of a pen loaded with Scabiosa, which is a dry Iron-Gall ink, and they're the perfect pair while my dry fine points really like my wetter and more saturated inks.

 

It'll get a little worse as you start seeing reviews and want to taste another shade of your favorite color, or try something in a different color.  Everyone tries something wild like Apache Sunset or Ambre de Bermanie eventually. Thankfully, samples are a good way to really learn about ink colors and properties and not expensive at all so you don't worry about getting stick with a year's supply of something you don't like. You'll probably buy a sample vial holder because you'll have so many of the little vials rolling around.

 

I got one of these, by the way: http://www.amazon.co...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1 And you should get a syringe or two and some extra vials -- you can get them from the same places you get samples for just a couple of dollars.

 

Then you'll want a broader nibbed pen or an italic or stub. Just because you'll start really digging some of the shadey inks and realize the Metropolitan is not super full of character and you'll probably get a wild sample of ink or two. Then maybe you'll get annoyed with your handwriting and get a fine nibbed pen to practice with and MORE samples since you will learn to like vibrant, saturated colors there...  I seriously doubt there are any people posting on this board who have only one pen and one ink.

 

You'll start noticing papers more, too. Get a Tomoe River pad, or a Rhodia dot pad, or even a Black 'n Red book and you'll see different character from each of them.

 

All of your friends will think you're crazy so don't try to explain it to them. But, eventually, you'll recognize the difference in someone's writing pretty quickly. A G2 may look OK, but there's nothing in ballpoint land that compares to Black Swan or Tsuki-Yo or Rouge Hematite.







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