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Leaky Sailor 1911

leaky sailor 1911 demonstrator

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19 replies to this topic

#1 whalebiologist

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 11:44

Somehow my 1911 has pulled ink inside of the section while sitting in my pen case, and is quite obvious as it's a demonstrator. So far I have had no luck getting the ink out. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated  :D

 

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#2 tinta

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 22:01

Oh dear!   This 1911 is a lovely pen, but your problem is quite common with most demonstrators. 

 

I would remove the converter first & wash all the parts as clean as you can.

Re install the converter & cycle water through pen till all parts are clean. 

A de-soldering bulb or an ear syringe cut a little narrower than the size of your section's threaded area can produce greater water pressure than your converter.

 

But the main stain is under your grip, making it hard to remove

Most likely,  your claret ink seeped backward from the nib & feed to get under your grip-section.

If some ink is still stuck under the grip, try to soak the nib/section in a solution of 1 part non-sudsing ammonia to 9 parts water. 

This solution may pull out more ink from under the grip.

 

All that said, you may have to accept some level ink staining under the grip (& sometimes under the cap) of your 1911 demo from time to time.  

Think of it as a badge of honour. 

One web-site (nibs.com) warns that demonstrators are not meant for neat freaks, as the stains that are hidden in opague pens may show up in transparent ones. 

(I'm not suggesting you are a neat freak, just quoting what was said.)

 

What 21K nib do you have with the pen?


Edited by tinta, 16 February 2014 - 22:08.

*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#3 whalebiologist

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:49

Thanks tinta! 
 

I will give the ammonia solution a go and see how it goes. It is the Medium nib.



#4 tinta

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 21:34

Hope you get the desired results. 

Staining or not, there's a certain fascination to demonstrators.  I have been looking at them (Sailor & Platinum) for the last two or three years.


*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#5 Pholky

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 00:03

Oh dear!   This 1911 is a lovely pen, but your problem is quite common with most demonstrators. 

 

I would remove the converter first & wash all the parts as clean as you can.

Re install the converter & cycle water through pen till all parts are clean. 

A de-soldering bulb or an ear syringe cut a little narrower than the size of your section's threaded area can produce greater water pressure than your converter.

 

But the main stain is under your grip, making it hard to remove

Most likely,  your claret ink seeped backward from the nib & feed to get under your grip-section.

If some ink is still stuck under the grip, try to soak the nib/section in a solution of 1 part non-sudsing ammonia to 9 parts water. 

This solution may pull out more ink from under the grip.

 

All that said, you may have to accept some level ink staining under the grip (& sometimes under the cap) of your 1911 demo from time to time.  

Think of it as a badge of honour. 

One web-site (nibs.com) warns that demonstrators are not meant for neat freaks, as the stains that are hidden in opague pens may show up in transparent ones. 

(I'm not suggesting you are a neat freak, just quoting what was said.)

 

What 21K nib do you have with the pen?

OOOH! I have the same problem as Whalebiologist!

Just got the Sailor 1911 Demonstrator of my dreams only to experience skipping and leaking from the ink flooded nib section. I have taken apart and cleaned and finally got almost all of the ink from nib section. Then it happened all over again.

So disappointed! Then to top it all off, I dropped the cap while cleaning and it chipped. Oh well, ink happens!!!



#6 tinta

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 21:39

"Whalebilologist", please let us know if you were able to remove (some or most of) the staining in your 1911's section. 

 

"Pholky", having to pull the nib & feed from your 1911 every time there is staining will lead to having nib & ink flow problems with your demonstrator.

I'd suggest just to flush out the stained parts as best as you can with water or ammonia + water (10% solution) .

The nib & feed IMO should be serviced by expert techs. 

(You are not dealing with an inexpensive Noodler's pen,  but a Sailor in the 250.00 USD range)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#7 Pholky

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 20:29

"Whalebilologist", please let us know if you were able to remove (some or most of) the staining in your 1911's section. 

 

"Pholky", having to pull the nib & feed from your 1911 every time there is staining will lead to having nib & ink flow problems with your demonstrator.

I'd suggest just to flush out the stained parts as best as you can with water or ammonia + water (10% solution) .

The nib & feed IMO should be serviced by expert techs. 

(You are not dealing with an inexpensive Noodler's pen,  but a Sailor in the 250.00 USD range)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! will flush accordingly!



#8 mhosea

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 04:58

Hmmm.  I'm wondering if the ink seeped in from the front edge of the grip section as a side effect of filling the pen.  I don't have any Sailor demonstrators, but when I put my Sailor grip sections in my ultrasonic cleaner, I've noticed that if I have filled them from the bottle in the normal way using the converter, some ink always comes out from that general area no matter how much I flush.


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#9 whalebiologist

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 05:05

Sorry for the late reply! 

I am sure the problem is not from filling the pen. Even if all I do is fill the converter separately and then put it into the pen it will very slowly draw ink up into behind the section after about a day or so. There also appears to be condensation of water inside the barrel after a day or so too. 

 

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#10 mhosea

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 13:43

Well, the condensation in the cap, at least, is definitely normal.

 

I'm inclined to guess that some ink migration in the grip is normal as well, but exactly where and how much matters. Note that sealants can be unsightly in demonstrators, so they might tend to skimp a little, but does this ink touch any metal parts other than the nib?  That could be a problem over time.  Have you tried it with cartridges?

 

You can probably remove the ink with an ultrasonic cleaner with diluted ammonia with surfactant.  The nib and feed are friction-fit on Sailors, but I have never even contemplated trying to remove the plastic insert in the grip section that holds the nib, so you're still probably going to need to finesse the ink out of there.


Edited by mhosea, 03 April 2014 - 18:14.

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#11 tinta

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 19:46

Mhosea, I believe you have mentioned that when you flush (ultrasonically) your Sailor sections, ink tends to come out from just under the grip. 

Sorry,...I may not have read what you've written correctly.   I also have no ability of inserting your quotes into my replies to support my post on FPN (as many members can do).

 

Anyway, ...filling my Sailors using a Sailor bottle (with the filling thingy) , my small size 14K nibs are not immersed into the ink any more than 3/4 of the length of the 14K nib.  So the "rim" of the grip never seems to touch the ink.

 

As long as I have all of my breather hole under the ink's surface,  the ink will draw properly into my converter. 

This method works with the two different styles of Sailor feeds (some with just combs & some with combs & a tunnel shaped opening at the front).  I rarely have to wipe ink off my section after filling using the "thingy"..

 

If on the other hand, .......if I'm using another ink brand's bottle or have removed the thingy from the Sailor Jentle,  I'll often inadvertently dip my nib too deep below the ink's surface & when I clean that pen, some ink comes out from underneath the grip. 

Usually leaving the nib-section+converter immersed (tip down) in RO water for a few hours will draw out most of the ink.

Since all my pens are not transparent, much of this is of little consequence.

 

When I got my first large size JoWo #6 nib,   Sailor's ink filling thingy turned out to be not deep enough for a proper fill from their squat bottles. 

Sure,  the # 6 nib was in deep enough to cover the breather hole, but with this nib's feed,  you have to immerse the nib fully (+ some more) to get a good draw of ink.   That's been my experience. 

This means that unless I decant my Sailor inks, I cannot use large size JoWo or Bock nibs.  The Schmidt feeds these nibs use have their filling channel opening at the bottom,  close to the rim of the section.  

 

When cleaning the JoWo #6,  I have noticed that some ink does inevitably seep in between the threaded nib-unit's sleeve & the inside of the section. 

I can easily take this apart and clean it but really don't need to except if I am changing out a nib unit.

 

I believe too that the original poster's (ink stain) findings seem normal for demonstrators   The OP may also dip the Sailor's nib too deep.

The Sailor's grip is press-fit  into the plated metal, threaded sections.     The nibs & feeds are friction fit & may not be designed (or intended) for a lot of repeated dis-assembly.

 

Being a neat freak from way back & being warned off by nibs.com (no affiliation) about the demonstrator's down-sides, I've not yet acquired one.

Never say never though.

 

Cheers:  Istvan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.


Edited by tinta, 03 April 2014 - 23:17.

*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#12 mhosea

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 21:11

Yeah, I let go of the idea that it had to do with filling the pen in this case when it was pointed out that it happens when filling the converter directly.  Maybe it can happen as a consequence of immersing the end of the grip section, but clearly that is not the explanation when it happens with filling the converter directly.  

 

Very cool that you can fill a Sailor (at least some of them) without immersing all the way to the grip section.  I will have to try that.  


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#13 tinta

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 19:49

I'd be curious Mike,  if you get a similar filling performance with your Sailors by just dipping your nibs past their breather hole. 

I only have the smaller Mid size 1911s, with less nib extending to the front of the feed.

Maybe the larger 21K nibs & feeds need to be immersed deeper?

 

(I apologize to the Original Poster if this discussion is deemed to be straying from the topic.  We are trying to find out why the ink travels in between the grip & feed of the OP's 1911L demo.)


*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub

#14 redneck6497

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 14:15

Here is another post just to confuse everyone.  I had a the same thing happen yesterday, except I was just using a cartridge.  However, I don't think it was on good, and ink wound up in the barrel too.  I got a good bit of ink in the section.  The bad thing is its just kind of seeping out all over my hands now.  



#15 mhosea

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 15:09

I'd be curious Mike,  if you get a similar filling performance with your Sailors by just dipping your nibs past their breather hole. 

I only have the smaller Mid size 1911s, with less nib extending to the front of the feed.

Maybe the larger 21K nibs & feeds need to be immersed deeper?

 

I haven't tried this with my Sailors yet, but it seemed to work with the MB 149 I recently acquired (used, of course).  This was not something I was trying to do, rather something forced on me by how far the 149 would fit into the container with the ink in it.  :)


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#16 mhosea

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 16:07

I just received a clear demonstrator Sailor 1911 Large, and while I have not yet seen any ink this area, I did see water in there after I flushed with a bulb syringe. I haven't worked out exactly how this section is put together, but I think I have it mostly sorted out, and I think with the right tool it is possible to fully disassemble it, which is to say, I don't think it's one of those things that's snapped together once like the Platinum Preppy sections.  The tool, or one of them, would be the one that fits into the keyed collar around the cartridge nipple.  I'm not sure if a tool that fits in where the feed does is also needed.  Anyway, a tiny gap between the cartridge nipple and the collar is probably how I got water in there when flushing it.  I'm not certain if ink would make this particular journey without some assistance from a loose converter or a cracked cartridge nipple, but I may find out eventually.  It's also possible that I forced water around the outside of the collar.  At any rate, I wonder if mashing the cartridge or converter down hard on the sac nipple isn't counterproductive.

 

It would be possible to seal it up nicely, but I think it would difficult to do a thorough job of sealing both ends without the sealant being seen through the clear section.  

 

BTW, I took a look at the Sailor filling instructions for the first time.  They do indeed say to immerse the nib far enough to cover the breather hole, not to reach the section. 


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#17 mhosea

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 02:18

I just received a clear demonstrator Sailor 1911 Large, and while I have not yet seen any ink this area, I did see water in there after I flushed with a bulb syringe. I haven't worked out exactly how this section is put together, but I think I have it mostly sorted out, and I think with the right tool it is possible to fully disassemble it, which is to say, I don't think it's one of those things that's snapped together once like the Platinum Preppy sections.  The tool, or one of them, would be the one that fits into the keyed collar around the cartridge nipple.  I'm not sure if a tool that fits in where the feed does is also needed.  Anyway, a tiny gap between the cartridge nipple and the collar is probably how I got water in there when flushing it.  I'm not certain if ink would make this particular journey without some assistance from a loose converter or a cracked cartridge nipple, but I may find out eventually.  It's also possible that I forced water around the outside of the collar.  At any rate, I wonder if mashing the cartridge or converter down hard on the sac nipple isn't counterproductive.

 

I was actually wrong about this.  I'm sure the keyed slots would be used to get the two apart safely with a tool, but it is not a "collar" or a "ring".  I got my section apart.  I was fiddling with it and noticed that I had gotten it loose.  It's really super simple.  Once the nib and feed are removed, it's just four pieces--a molded plastic insert that holds the nib and feed, the threaded metal connector, the outer grip itself, and a metal trim ring.  The trim ring and grip are sandwiched between the two parts that screw together, the molded plastic insert and the metal connector.  If the molded plastic insert is not cracked, and if ink does not seep end through the end of the section when the pen is filled (which is not necessary given that the pen is supposed to be fillable from the breather hole), then the only way in is around the outside of the plastic part and around the threads.  This would imply that the cartridge converter or cartridge are not fitting tightly on the nipple.  

 

Putting some kind of sealant on the threads of the molded insert might prevent ink from seeping into the grip section from behind.  However, I wouldn't actually encourage folks to try to unscrew these parts without the right tool.  The reason is that, without the tool, it is only some plastic protrusions on the grip fitting into some detents in the molded plastic insert that would be acting as a wrench to let you unscrew the parts.  You could end up cracking the grip trying to unscrew the thing.  Alternatively, you could use the feed as a wrench, since it has a channel that slides over a ridge inside the molded plastic part, but then there is risk of damaging the feed.


Edited by mhosea, 18 August 2014 - 02:19.

I know my id is "mhosea", but you can call me Mike. It's an old Unix thing.


#18 semperfi

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Posted 18 December 2016 - 09:44

Hi All,

Apology for reviving old thread but I have searched all over the net without result. I would like to let you know that I have 1911L Demo that have a stuck water upon cleaning on the grip section which is a bit annoying.

Based on the above discussion and a bit of guts, I actually manage to disassembled and clean it.

You just have to grip the grip section and the metal section, turn it open as you would on opening barrel and there you go.

*Please do it at your own risk

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#19 Poision Pen

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 10:07

I have sort of the same issue with my Pro Gear Realo. Based on your photo above, I have ink weeping out of where the black threaded part of the nib fits into the clear section. My pen is all black.
I use the word weeping because it's not like it leaks all over my hand as I write, but I do get a build up in the cap which eventually transfers to the pen when posting, and then onto my hands.
I have been trying to find out how the nib comes out but have been unable to find clear information. One other thread said it pulls straight out. I see yours is threaded.
Actually, looking closer at your photo, I guess the actual nib is still fitted to the black section with the threads, would that be correct? That would actually be the place where the ink seems to be coming out of.
How would that be fitted? Maybe it is a force fit making removal that much more difficult.
Any suggestions on how to stop my leak?
Nakaya Aka-tamenuri Long Cigar, standard fine two tone nib/ Nakaya Aka-tamenuri Piccolo, soft medium stub in two tone/ Nakaya Aka-tamenuri Neo Standard, medium cursive italic/ Sailor Pro Gear fine/ Sailor Pro Gear medium cursive italic/ Pelikan M800 extra fine/ 1954 Monte Rosa medium left oblique/ Nakaya Naka-ai, medium left oblique, Heki-Tamenuri/Sailor Realo ll, medium left oblique/ Cross Townsend “Year Of The Rooster” medium/ Pilot Vanishing Point, fine.

#20 tinta

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 16:03

While I'm impressed that you got the 1911's section into its component parts without destroying anything, I wouldn't do it too often.  These pens are not meant to be broken down unless it's for an actual repair. 

The purely cosmetic staining, seeping etc., that occurs with demo pens may be a part of their charm.  I am too fastidious to own a Sailor demonstrator.

BTW:  :W2FPN:


Edited by tinta, 05 May 2017 - 16:05.

*Sailor 1911S, Black/gold, 14c. 0.8 mm. stub(JM) *1911S blue "Colours", 14c. H-B "M" BLS (PB) *2 Sailor 1911-M Burgundy/gold pens: 14c. 0.6 mm. "round-nosed" CI (MM) & 1.1 mm. CI (JM) *Sailor Pro-Gear Slim Spec. Ed. "Fire",14c. (factory) "H-B" *2 Kaweco SPECIAL fountain pens: 14c."M" "B",-0.5 mm & 0.7 mm stubs (PB) *Kaweco Stainless Steel Lilliput, 14c "B" -0.6 mm. stub (PB) *Montblanc 254, 14c. "BB" (1.1 mm?) flügelfeder factory stub





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