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Tipped Stub?

inexpensive stub tipping italic iridium

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15 replies to this topic

#1 Songyi

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 00:37

Hello everyone!

 

I have recently gotten into stub nibs with the Pilot 78G in broad as well as some "pseudo-regrinding" of some inexpensive Chinese pens. I love the way the 78G writes, but after constant use for three months, the nib is visibly wearing down.

 

Most of the inexpensive pens that I've looked at come with untipped stubs (Pilot 78G, Lamy Safari/Vista/Al-Star, TWSBI, Monteverde). And the only stubs that I've seen that are tipped are on $150+ gold nibs (for good reason, as gold is even softer).

 

Does anyone here have or can recommend a stub nib pen with some tipping? I'm going to university in the fall and would really enjoy a long-lasting stub nib without breaking the bank (<$80).

 

Thank you all in advance!


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#2 balson

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:48

if you want to go the vintage rout keep an eye out for english parkers.  stub and oblique nibs seem to be much more common on them and many of them are even flexible too even into the 1960's.  i have found some good flexi stub nibs on the parker victory and the parker 17 lady model.  

 

if you keep an eye out you can probably find a better deal than this but here is an example of one with an oblique nib.  

http://www.ebay.com/...=item518c230e8c

the lady parker 17 is a really small pen, close the a waterman 52 1/2 v in size so it really needs to be posted to write.  


Edited by balson, 29 January 2014 - 08:13.


#3 Centopar

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 11:59

Try haunting Greg Minuskin's site: I've a 1.3mm customised stub he made for a Parker Challenger with a lovely fat ball of tipping, which I think cost me under $100. His stub nibs are things of beauty, and he's a terrific guy to deal with.



#4 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 12:31

Stub vs Stubbish

 

Germans made Stubbish writing pens.

Pelikan 140-€70-90 on German Ebay...with patience less. The Geha 790 is your best bet, at with great luck and long patience 20, mostly €30-40 now...price of pens have gone up, that Pelikan 1 1/2 years before was €20 cheaper. At that price you can get two...one regular semi-flex, the other an oblique with more stubbishness. (Sigh...sigh squared....no, sigh cubed....it's normally a black and gold pen, color costs twice as much.sigh..seen them in gray and green stripes sigh.)

(off to look at German Ebay now...want a 790 in Color and not the three nibs I have. Well I can always screw the nib out and put a nib from my other three on it.....who knows I could really luck out and get an semi-flex OM. I'm light in OM's only have two in other pens.)

 

These are not the stubs you think you want. These are German stubbish, with semi-flex. I would suggest an OM, in the M's of then are narrower than the modern M's.

A modern stub in nail or regular flex, will give you max at all times. The German stubbish pens do not. They give you 'stub' on demand. In semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex that's not much.  For more stubbish, I recommend German vintage '50-65 pens with those two flexes. Oblique for more stubbishness.

 

As 'noobie' I'd thought some idiot had taken a file or put the nib to the stone for some crazy reason...Then I had only experience with The American Bump under type of nib. The Germans wanted a stubbish pattern and some spring ie semi-flex = spring +, or a bit of flex in a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex. They wanted a stubbish script.

 

It is not stub...Cheetah vs Leopard. It is stubbish.

 

How much stub are you going to get, depends on if the nib was ground to @15 or @30 degrees.

That is pure luck.

 

Get a semi-flex Geha 790 only (Not the school pen which is seldom in semi-flex, mostly very nice vintage springy narrow clean line...but it has an American Bump (FK) under like the Pelikan 120.)), three little rings on the start of the cap jewel. You have a great deal of ink in it. It is a standard sized pen the same size as a Pelikan M400 or an Esterbrook DJ.

OF does just fine too.

An OB from then a writing nib more to the size of a modern M-B, but for notes you may want the smaller OF.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#5 Kquill

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 16:11

I don't know about tipping, but the Lamy 1.1 italic nibs are made of some good steel, write smooth, and since they're steel, chances are the tipping won't wear out. 

 

I'm not even sure if tipping makes all that much of a difference, I have a smooth as butter vintage flexible stub nib with no tipping, and I don't really feel a difference in smoothness as compared to a modern tipped stub and my Lamy Safari with a 1.1 italic. 

 

Don't worry too much about the tipping, unless it's a gold nib, the tipping doesn't count for much, and even then, you probably won't even feel the difference in smoothness (in my experience). 



#6 Ted A

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 17:05

An advantage to the Lamy stubs is that they are easily replaceable and are fairly inexpensive. Though if you're using the 78G, that pen is about the same price. The Lamy nibs fit most of the Lamy line. There are several Pilot pens that you can swap the 78G broad or the Plumix nibs onto if you would like a different pen body.

 

At $150.00 for a gold, you could get 10 - 12 replacement nibs for the Lamy or Pilot (by buying low priced pens) for the same price.


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#7 Ted A

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 17:08

Another approach, if your budget is $80, find a $40 pen with tipping and have it ground to a stub by a nibmeister, which seems to go for $40.


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#8 impossiblebird

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 17:17

I'd go for a Lamy Safari/Studio with the stub-ish italic nib, as well. I don't know whether the broader nibs are as smooth (corners-wise) as the 1.1mm, but I'd guess so.



#9 Koyote

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 18:26

I don't know about tipping, but the Lamy 1.1 italic nibs are made of some good steel, write smooth, and since they're steel, chances are the tipping won't wear out. 

 

I'm not even sure if tipping makes all that much of a difference, I have a smooth as butter vintage flexible stub nib with no tipping, and I don't really feel a difference in smoothness as compared to a modern tipped stub and my Lamy Safari with a 1.1 italic. 

 

Don't worry too much about the tipping, unless it's a gold nib, the tipping doesn't count for much, and even then, you probably won't even feel the difference in smoothness (in my experience). 

 

I think the OP's main concern is that the untipped nibs will wear out quickly...And the Lamy 1.1 is untipped. (At least mine appears to be.)

 

I don't really have a sense of how long an untipped nib will last, but I suspect that, under heavy use, it will indeed wear down.

 

TWSBI offers some nice tipped stubs on some of their models at low prices, though I am loath to recommend them because the pens themselves have so many failures.


Edited by Koyote, 29 January 2014 - 18:26.


#10 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 18:40

At I believe @$7.00 for a Lamy nib....first it will take ages...months and moths at least... to wear down and is cheap to replace.


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 


#11 dooooooor

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 18:53

The fine italic/stubs on the Italix pens have tipping. Unfortunately it's all ground away on their larger sizes.



#12 Randal6393

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 18:59

For a Pilot 78G to wear out in a few months? That's a lot of wear! Begs the question, are you bearing down when you write? What type of paper are you using? Yes, the Pilot has an untipped nib and the metal is a bit on the soft side. I reground one into an italic nib and wrote with it for over a year with little or no wear. So ... Maybe some minor changes would reduce the amount of wear on your pens.

 

The average "iridium" nib is a polyglot noble metal nib that seems, to me, to be about as obdurate as a better grade of stainless steel. And, frankly, I see no difference between a good stainless tip and the usual tipped nib. Tipped pens that I grade excellent would be the Lamy 2000, the Pelikans from M400 on up, and high-grade Bexleys, Auroras, and Conklins. Untipped pens that I use regularly are the Lamy Safaris, the Pelikan M200s, and the Noodler Ahabs (with Goulet Pen nibs).

 

Hope this helps, best of luck to you,


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#13 Songyi

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 19:13

For a Pilot 78G to wear out in a few months? That's a lot of wear! Begs the question, are you bearing down when you write? What type of paper are you using? Yes, the Pilot has an untipped nib and the metal is a bit on the soft side. I reground one into an italic nib and wrote with it for over a year with little or no wear. So ... Maybe some minor changes would reduce the amount of wear on your pens.

 

The average "iridium" nib is a polyglot noble metal nib that seems, to me, to be about as obdurate as a better grade of stainless steel. And, frankly, I see no difference between a good stainless tip and the usual tipped nib. Tipped pens that I grade excellent would be the Lamy 2000, the Pelikans from M400 on up, and high-grade Bexleys, Auroras, and Conklins. Untipped pens that I use regularly are the Lamy Safaris, the Pelikan M200s, and the Noodler Ahabs (with Goulet Pen nibs).

 

Hope this helps, best of luck to you,

I don't believe that I "bear down" on my pens, but the paper may be an issue. (I can't really afford good, smooth paper for all of my notes).

I thought that the "iridium" was a combination of platinum, osmium, and rhodium, but I guess these metals are no cheaper than pure iridium.

 

I'm currently saving up for a 2K, so it is pretty assuring that you have had a good experience with them.


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#14 pjford

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 14:05

Tipping is essential on solid gold nibs, they would not last more than a day or two without it. On stainless steel nibs it is not needed, in fact on italic nibs, you get better thick and thin line definition without tipping. Cheap nibs like those made by 'Manuscript' give the best definition although not too smoothly and they have no tipping at all.

 

Another popular belief is that untipped nibs become scratchy after a period of use, this is a myth. In fact as the ink lubricates the tip the paper acts as the finest of smoothers making the tip mirror smooth.

 

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#15 Songyi

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 14:28

Tipping is essential on solid gold nibs, they would not last more than a day or two without it. On stainless steel nibs it is not needed, in fact on italic nibs, you get better thick and thin line definition without tipping. Cheap nibs like those made by 'Manuscript' give the best definition although not too smoothly and they have no tipping at all.

 

Another popular belief is that untipped nibs become scratchy after a period of use, this is a myth. In fact as the ink lubricates the tip the paper acts as the finest of smoothers making the tip mirror smooth.

 

MrPen

Thanks for your comment! I've tried a stubby Pelikan once (in a B&M shop), and though it did not feel "scratchy", it wasn't as smooth as my 78G now. My main concern is not smoothness, as is longevity. But even the latter issue was explained quite well. I guess I'll stick with steel untipped stubs until I can save up enough for either a tipped gold nib stub or a custom regrind of a broad nib.

 

Thank you again!


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Graham Greene

#16 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 15:50

No! A rolled steel tip is not a long term solution.

That an Esterbrook 2xxx nib can be smoother than the same in 9xxx with 'iridium' tip is a given, how ever with a touch of smoothing they write as good. I of course am an expert, having one of each.

 

How ever, back in the day of One man, One pen, writing 8 hours a day, a rolled stainless nib was only good for a year and or year and a half, before you bought another cheap nib....in the 'iridium' 9xxx cost 2-3X as much, in an Esterbrook. The poor man's solution. Esterbrook did improve it's steel nib, so that the 2xxx, replaced it's 1xxx nibs. Writing 8 hours a day...an 'iridium' tip could be expected to last 7-10 years or even more.

Today of One man, 27 pens and one in the mail,....steel and 'iridium' will last a life time.

 

Iridium tipping was perfected in WW2. It's not changed much since. Before that 'iridium' could be lumpy, chunky and break off. It does not do that now.

 

Yes no tipping on italic calligraphy nibs can be normal. I have an Osmiroid set, ..some sort of bronze I'd guess, with none. The nibs were cheap enough to replace back in the day.... In one is drawing letters, it takes longer to wear them out. My Sheaffer's set that I sent to my god son, was not tipped either, nor is my Joy.

 

You have to remember 'iridium' was more expensive than gold back when a $20 Double Eagle could be bought for only $40. (1932- 70's)

"Iridium' is still not cheap...in the world is covered with a very thin layer of it, from the asteroid that destroyed the dinosaurs. So mining it is a problem. That is why over the time, 'iridium' has been replaced as far as I have read completely with other platinum group metals. Still more expensive than gold once was. I don't know how much the rare metals are going for now...but are not cheap.

 

Iridium point Germany is 'iridium complex replacement' made in Germany where they seem to be good at it. So China or India buys their 'iridium' from Germany and put it on their nibs as a perhaps the only quality on their nib. Trying to fake it's a quality German nib.

It is still expensive or the cheap Chinese pens wouldn't be rolled steel.

 

'Iridium' so those who are AR can't say there is no iridium in the tipping of a modern pen.

 

My '30's50's Pelikans and some of the others, have very, very little 'iridium' on their flat stubbish tips....it did make for cheaper manufacturing. The Americans had great big lump of it under the tip. I call it the American Bump under...because of my vintage flat 'iridium' tipped German pens.

 

As a 'noobie' I almost tossed nibs, thinking some idiot had taken a file or a stone to the nib trying to make a stub...for some odd reason. I was wrong.

 

As a stupid noobie, I thought in House nibs must be so much better.

Degussa (Bought up Osmia's nib factory 1932...Osmia's brand name (1922) was because they bought the patent from a Heidelberg Professor for the tipping.) Degussa continued to make the superb Osmia nibs, and of course nibs for many of the one time 120 German manufactures or pen assembling companies. Like Bock, there were cheaper nibs made, or nibs made that were not 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex' Like the Osmia Supra, or the nib size # 2,3 or 4 in the Osmia Diamond, semi-flex. I have Degussa nibs that are regular flex, on other pens.  

 

Rupp (started 1922-@1970), Bock (started 1938), were as good. JoWo I know less about but they too have lasted since 1853.

 

Yep, so glad I didn't toss those "no name" Degussa and Bock nibs.

 

Many of the top names in pens use Bock today; like Visconti and many others (there is a list somewhere)....Pelikan did too before going back to made in House, could be the 1000's nib is still made by Bock.


Edited by Bo Bo Olson, 01 February 2014 - 16:07.

German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 






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