New Pelikan Classic P200 Fountain Pen With Cartridges

[rafapa]

Ok then. It seems my way of reasoning it's not "fountain pen builder" friendly.

Thanks again,

Rafael

[Lady P]

I hope this isn't the march of progress... because I'm afraid that we might loose another pen to C/C filling. History tends to favor the simplified things in life, and it seems that the piston might fall to the wayside with Pelikan...

 

 

I sure hope not! I wonder if I should stock up on M2xx's before they go the way of dodo and Parker 51...

Why, thanks Inkling13 for freaking me out.

[conib]

Pelikan argues that they have had to design and built new tools for the making of the new barrel and the connection between the cartridge and the feeder.

 

Yes, for me at least, this is understood.

 

However, in considering this argument, I was reminded of one of the largest successes in which I had the pleasure to participate. My company had normally done products that sold in the low 6-figure range and were quite successful. When we built a scaled-down version that sold in the very low 5-figure range, that new product sold (as our Swiss distributor put it, in American English no less) "like cookies".

 

Our Marketeers had had the vision to see that we should eat the NRE and they were so right.

 

 

 

It also opens a door to a possible price reduction in the future, should the produced quantities of the P 200 be high enough.

 

What do you think?

 

Well, to me, your m20x line, with its steel nibs, competes with the Pilot Prera (whose MSRP is something like $70 but normally sells in the range of $36 - $60 or so).

 

So, in my case that meant that I had already had three Pilot Preras (and had added three higher-end Pilots to my pen collection), before I purchased my first (and so far, only) Pelikan, a m200 Demonstrator.

 

I went with the Pilot Prera first because 1) of the outstanding reputation of its nib -- that it works perfectly right out of the box and 2) it can be completely disassembled for cleaning and thus can be used with pigmented inks.

 

I purchased my first Pelikan because 1) of the variety of additional nibs that can be purchased and swapped out on the fly, and 2) it turns out that a good nibmeister can build a cursive italic for me, giving me the equivalent of the Prera's "CM" or the Pilot France Plumix "F" nib, which have become my preferred nibs in my Preras, and 3) there is the opportunity to obtain a vintage flex nib that can be fitted to the m200.

 

HTH!

 

-- Constance

Edited January 23, 2014 by conib

[Steven]

This makes it just another fountain pen and an over priced one at that.

[Runnin_Ute]

As an accountant, I understand wanting to cover my fixed costs (new tooling) for the new product as quickly as possible, but it might be a smarter move to differentiate it price wise from the more complex M2xx's filling system - even though the tooling for that was paid for many years ago. One of two things is likely to happen.The P2xx stays at what we have been told and the M2xx is moved upmarket price wise - or leave the M2xx pricing as is, and differentiate the P series pen by decreasing the cost bey 15-25 Euros. (70 Euros = $96 US/93 Euros =$127 US)

 

I think making a fewer $/unit initially and higher volume would be more advisable.

[Fritz Schimpf]

Dear Runnin_Ute,

 

I think your reasoning is totally logical and I can only agree with you. Maybe Pelikan will listen to a sound reasoning and change their pricing policy before the release.

 

Kind regards

 

Fritz Schimpf

[oknrabata]

I really like it and I guess I will buy one for travelling. Actually it is much better looking than Pelikan's previous c/c pens.
The only downside is the limited selection in nib widths. Buying a separate ef nib unit and swapping the nibs makes it even more expensive. But then again I would have swapped it for a gold nib anyhow

[a m a r g o]

Interesting concept and design, could be appealing to many, but at the same price point as the m200 line could be its doom. What is the point in buying the same pen with different filling systems at the same price but one of them with better margin of income to the manufacturer, not your wallet?

 

Do not understand why Pelikan, or any other brand for that matter, doesn't do some research... We all want the the m200 series in blue and grey marble but they quit making them, many would love an italic nib on their m200 or m205 and run a little production number, thousands would love to get more colours on the demonstrators m205 series and instead they bring on the toupe and neon color schemes.

 

Arghhhhhhhhh....

Edited March 8, 2014 by coppilcus

[Aimsport]

Two thoughts.

 

This would make a great graduation present. I have hesitated in the past because of the whole bottle thing for graduates new to FP.

 

Is this a good eyedropper conversion candidate?

[zubipen]

Dear readers,

 

after the idea has been around for at least two years, Pelikan will start selling in March 2014 (at least in Germany) their new fountain pen, the Classic P200. The P200 is similar to the M200 fountain pens, but instead of offering a piston mechanism it accepts cartridges. The P200 fountain pen will be released in two versions (one with silver and one with gold coloured applications). There are three nib sizes to choose from (fine, medium and broad). Some pictures can be found here: http://www.fritz-schimpf.de/Neuheiten/Pelikan-Classic-P200-205-Patronenfuellhalter.html.

 

In order to be able to offer the matching cartridges Pelikan will also start selling the Edelstein ink in cartridges. They come in a lovely metal box (http://www.fritz-schimpf.de/Neuheiten/Pelikan-Edelstein-Ink-Collection-Tintenpatronen.html.

 

Please excuse the fact that our website only offers German as a language, but for the pictures this should not be a problem. Should you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Besides English you can contact us in Spanish as well.

 

Kind regards

 

Fritz Schimpf

. Thank you for the complete information you provided. Is is very clear. Do you have my info about a new special/limited edition of a new M 101n red tortoise that suppose to be in the market in September 2014?

[Fritz Schimpf]

Dear Zubipen,

 

yes, there will be a M 101N Special Edition tortoise fountain pen in red later this year. I can not confirm September 2014 as Pelikan might release the pen later.

 

Kind regards

 

Fritz Schimpf

[zubipen]

Thank you. Please inform us as soon as you have more info.

[Koyote]

Something I don't understand is why the price is the same that the m200. I assume that the piston one is more difficult to produce.

 

Why would you assume that? Each pen has a cap, outer barrel, clip and trim rings, feed, nib. Each also has a set of threads for a filling system: on the knob for the piston filler, and between the section and barrel for the C/C pen. The only significant difference is that one pen contains a converter (and a section with the extra hardware to accommodate the converter), while the other pen has a piston which is just a piece of plastic with a rubber seal on one end.

 

In other words, I suspect that the production cost of the C/C pen is about the same as for the piston version. And even if that weren't true, I would bet that production cost (marginal cost) of any pen is only about 25%-30% of the retail price.

[rafapa]

Why would you assume that? Each pen has a cap, outer barrel, clip and trim rings, feed, nib. Each also has a set of threads for a filling system: on the knob for the piston filler, and between the section and barrel for the C/C pen. The only significant difference is that one pen contains a converter (and a section with the extra hardware to accommodate the converter), while the other pen has a piston which is just a piece of plastic with a rubber seal on one end.

 

In other words, I suspect that the production cost of the C/C pen is about the same as for the piston version. And even if that weren't true, I would bet that production cost (marginal cost) of any pen is only about 25%-30% of the retail price.

Well, comparing the M20x and P20x models I would say the main and almost only difference is in the barrel. The M20x has more parts than the other. To produce the piston more machines are necessary. Also the interior of the barrel needs to be machined at a higher precision in the M20x model to allow smooth piston operation. Looking at QC the barrel of the P20x needs to be checked only at the thread whereas the M20x needs also to be checked form good piston operation.

I believe all this differences should add cost to the M20x model.

Best regards,

Rafael

Edited March 13, 2014 by rafapa

[Koyote]

Well, comparing the M20x and P20x models I would say the main and almost only difference is in the barrel. The M20x has more parts than the other. To produce the piston more machines are necessary. Also the interior of the barrel needs to be machined at a higher precision in the M20x model to allow smooth piston operation. Looking at QC the barrel of the P20x needs to be checked only at the thread whereas the M20x needs also to be checked form good piston operation.

I believe all this differences should add cost to the M20x model.

Best regards,

Rafael

 

I don't think that plastic pen barrels are machined; they are likely injection molded and the tolerances come out fine.

 

As a share of the pen's marginal cost, I would bet that the differences are rather slight.

[rafapa]

 

I don't think that plastic pen barrels are machined; they are likely injection molded and the tolerances come out fine.

 

As a share of the pen's marginal cost, I would bet that the differences are rather slight.

Maybe you are right. If you read post #18 Pelikan argues that the price is justified by the need to develop new machines.

[GG917]

Maybe you are right. If you read post #18 Pelikan argues that the price is justified by the need to develop new machines.

 

And I guess the machine used to make the M2XX - M4XX have been covered since a long time!

 

I am quite interest by this pen, its line looks better to me than the M2xx series, sleeker on the back without the piston knob. I just hope the cartridge will be better keep in place than in the Pura!

[Fritz Schimpf]

According to Pelikan they will start shipping the P20x to retailers starting end of March. As soon as we have received them, I will give you a hands-on description.

 

Another information has also been detailed: the nib and feeder units are not exchangeable with the M 200 series. I do think, that this is a shame.

[a m a r g o]

According to Pelikan they will start shipping the P20x to retailers starting end of March. As soon as we have received them, I will give you a hands-on description.

 

Another information has also been detailed: the nib and feeder units are not exchangeable with the M 200 series. I do think, that this is a shame.

Indeed, it doesn't make any sense at all... Pelikan is shooting themselves on the foot with this one, they could have targeted another market than the ones willing to acquire the M200 series and sell ver y well... Its a shame

[conib]

the nib and feeder units are not exchangeable with the M 200 series. I do think, that this is a shame.

 

Bummer! Well, so much for my application!

 

-- Constance