Help Me Figure Out If This (1964 Sheafer Imperial) Is Worth It?

[WirlWind]

First off, this is my first actual post. So howdy!

 

Secondly, I've been doing a bit of research on a pen I found while looking for my first Parker 51 (I figured I might start with what a lot of people would consider 'the best'). One of the sellers had another pen that's currently sitting at 1 bid and $13. Ends tomorrow (In about 15 hours).

 

The only detail given is it's a "Sheaffer Imperial Grey" and has a 14k nib. From a quick google search, I -think- it looks like a 1964 model because of an ad I stumbled on, but it's hard to tell.

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-SHEAFFER-GREY-IMPERIAL-U-S-A-FOUNTAIN-PEN-14K-Nib-NICE-/00/s/MTQwOFgxNjAw/z/dXsAAOxy4dNSr69j/$_12.JPG?rt=nc

 

So that's the pen.

 

Does anyone know exactly what type it is? When it was made? And also if there are any reviews. If it's a good solid pen, then I might have to just skimp on Christmas grog and pick this up because from what I can see of it, it looks really damned pretty. If it writes as nicely as it looks, then it's getting bought.

 

Also, sorry if this would go better in the Sheaffer sub-forum, but I figured that if I posted here, I might get more balanced opinions etc. Cheers for all your help (in advance!).

 

- Josh

Edited December 23, 2013 by WirlWind

[Paul80]

Hi

 

It looks to me to be an Imperial IV (4) which I find to be best of all the Imperials but that is obviously just a personal opinion

 

Paul

[WirlWind]

Hi

 

It looks to me to be an Imperial IV (4) which I find to be best of all the Imperials but that is obviously just a personal opinion

 

Paul

 

Hmm, yeah. There's a website advertising new old stock and as far as I can tell, they look identical (besides being green, not grey).

 

From a quick ebay search, they seem to be going for $75+, so I think $20 tops should be a good price (unless it gets down to the wire tomorrow).

 

Do you know of any reviews of the pens? I tried to search for a Imperial IV review and got almost nothing of any use =\

[pajaro]

It looks like a nice pen. It might need to be restored, with a new sac and maybe an o-ring. You might investigate what the cost would be to restore a Touchdown filling Imperial would be in your area, if you couldn't do it yourself. I think it's something around $30.

 

I have a burgundy Imperial like the one pictured, with a 14K fine nib. I am very glad to have it.

 

If you get this pen, and if it doesn't fill, you might escape with just replacing the sac. Unscrew the section from the barrel. There is a shiny steel sac guard around the sac. You could carefully work the sac guard off without breaking anything. The sac is inside the sac guard and can easily be replaced if it isn't good. Work the old sac off and install a new one. Check it out in the Sheaffer forum for specific instructions. It isn't very hard. After replacing the sac, reinstall the sac guard. There are threads about doing it. If you haven't replaced a sac before, you might be better off having someone else do it. I have replaced a couple of sacs in these pens, and I am not much good at repairing pens.

[WirlWind]

It looks like a nice pen. It might need to be restored, with a new sac and maybe an o-ring. You might investigate what the cost would be to restore a Touchdown filling Imperial would be in your area, if you couldn't do it yourself. I think it's something around $30.

 

I have a burgundy Imperial like the one pictured, with a 14K fine nib. I am very glad to have it.

 

If you get this pen, and if it doesn't fill, you might escape with just replacing the sac. Unscrew the section from the barrel. There is a shiny steel sac guard around the sac. You could carefully work the sac guard off without breaking anything. The sac is inside the sac guard and can easily be replaced if it isn't good. Work the old sac off and install a new one. Check it out in the Sheaffer forum for specific instructions. It isn't very hard. After replacing the sac, reinstall the sac guard. There are threads about doing it. If you haven't replaced a sac before, you might be better off having someone else do it. I have replaced a couple of sacs in these pens, and I am not much good at repairing pens.

 

I may be new to fountain pens, but if there's one thing I do well, it's research

 

Not afraid to give it a go, so I might pick up a sack off ebay and an O ring or two if I do win it and start getting some hands on experience. Worst case scenario, I screw up royally and I learn a sharp lesson on what not to do

 

Trouble is I think the only real "stationary / art" store that I have nearby only carries basic calligraphy sets and know basically nothing about fountain pens. Might end up being a pretty penny to send it off to another part of the country. So I figure it's worth a try at least.

[OcalaFlGuy]

I can only give you the U.S. pricing I'M aware of and I understand that doesn't translate so well to the Aussieland Drachma.

 

Keep in mind that the I4 came in both cart/converter And Touchdown filler. Arguments can be made for both models. C-Worders often prefer the TD fillers [1] while the argument could be made For the converter model that's it's a no restoration needed pen as long as there are Sheaffer converters available.

 

Be as sure as possible there are no nib issues. Nib repairs can be complicated (to say the least) as the nib ISN'T removable from the shell to be repaired.

 

The 14k inlaid nib with the upturned Waverely styled nib are usually very smooth, wetter writers.

 

All of mine are from Fleabay and my all plastic Imperials cost me $25-40 with 14k nibs. I think Peyton Street Pens DID have some I4 in TD for about $80 that if not NOS were near it. I've seen apparent NOS I4s go for around $45-50 on The Bay.

 

 

[1] Many of these C-Worders are or were afflicted with the especially virulent Snorkel virus and IMO, the TD filler tube that is similar invokes a slight relapse of the related Snorkel virus in them.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[ISW_Kaputnik]

I got one of the Peyton Street Pens NOS Imperial IVs for $56, but they don't have them at the moment. If a used one needs at most a new sac, O-ring seal, and minor nib tweaking, Danny Fudge does them for (I believe) about $20 plus shipping costs both ways.

 

Anyway, they are good pens, but as always when buying used pens on eBay you're taking some chance on undisclosed issues, in some cases ones that the seller is unaware of.

[Ron Z]

While gray is not rare, it is one of the less common colors of the touchdown Imperials. Black, burgundy, blue, green, gray - with gray I think harder to find. I charge $35 plus shipping to restore. But I sell the gray at a somewhat premium price. Decide what you are willing to pay and bid on it. If you restore the pen, you should also replace the 0-ring in the barrel. This pen uses the same 0-ring as the snorkel and it's related TM Touchdown.

[pajaro]

Apart from any other issues, you will want to make sure there are no cracks in the barrel, particularly at the end of the pen with the blind cap that you unscrew to work the Touchdown filler. If there is a crack in the barrel, the Touchdown filler might not work, because that would cause an air leak. When you pull the Touchdown out and then push it back in, it's pushing air to compress the sac and expel air and ink. It reaches a point at the end of travel where the pressure is released, and then the sac sucks in ink. If the barrel is cracked, the pressure won't build when you push the TD knob + tube back into the barrel. No pressure= no filling action. I have a pen like this, with a crack in the barrel at the TD knob end of the barrel. If I hold the cracked portion together with my fingers while working the filler, it will work, proving that barrel crack is a large issue. I would ask about whether there are cracks in the barrel, because it can be a show-stopper.

[OcalaFlGuy]

Care should also be taken with the TD model NOT to extend the filler tube while the nib is submerged in ink. This can bring ink up into parts of the pen where it wasn't intended to be and may cause internals to rust.

 

I personally find the TD fill method backassards intuition wise. I try to devote a few more brain cells to the process to be sure I am paying sufficient attention and don't hose it up.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pajaro]

Care should also be taken with the TD model NOT to extend the filler tube while the nib is submerged in ink. This can bring ink up into parts of the pen where it wasn't intended to be and may cause internals to rust.

 

I personally find the TD fill method backassards intuition wise. I try to devote a few more brain cells to the process to be sure I am paying sufficient attention and don't hose it up.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Heck, I never knew that. I have usually waited to put the pen in the ink and then pulled the filler rod out. It's a wonder I don't have more trouble with those pens. You learn something new every day, thanks to your friends.

 

Season's greetings to all.

[WirlWind]

Cheers for all the tips, guys. Sounds like I could be walking through a bit of a minefield with Homie-Gbay. I think I'll cap the price at $20 and if it goes over that, I'll just skip it. Seems like a reasonable price to pay for a chance at what seems to be a good pen and if it does turn out to be partially busted, hopefully it should still come in under priced even after a professional repair job.

 

I think I'll send a question off to the seller and ask some hard questions about cracks / the nib / if the touchdown moves any air when he pushes it down / etc.

[Ron Z]

 

 

Care should also be taken with the TD model NOT to extend the filler tube while the nib is submerged in ink. This can bring ink up into parts of the pen where it wasn't intended to be and may cause internals to rust.

 

Close, but not quite correct. This applies to the snorkel pens because pulling back on the TD tube with the nib in the ink can create enough of a vacuum that the ink (or water) is pulled in around the point holder gasket. With a TD pen (no snorkel) pulling back simply pulls on the sac. A fruitless exercise since the pen doesn't get drawn into the pen because the sac guard keeps it from expanding much. A snorkel on the other hand is a royal pain because if ink does get pulled in around the point holder gasket the spring and the screw and about anything else can rust.

[OcalaFlGuy]

Snipped from Richard Binder's section on TD/Snorkel fillers;

 

It has been my experience with Richard's site that he doesn't make exclamatory statements in Red ink loosely. I would presume that he wouldn't feel that degree of warning necessary for just any harmless "fruitless exercise".

Interestingly enough, the same exact statement, in the same Red ink, with the same exclamation point is in Exactly the same part of BOTH the TD and Snorkel fill areas.

It was my presumption then that the possibility of taking ink up inside the barrel existed in Both pens.

But what the heck do I know?

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[WirlWind]

Just an update: I did something real stupid

 

I only had about $60 in the bank, ended up winning a really nice Parker 51 Aero w/ medium tip for $55 (It was finishing up a few hours before this did).

 

The Imperial sold for $20 and I wasn't worried thinking I might find another, but sadly I havn't seen anything since and I've been looking daily ;_;

 

Honestly, I think if I could go back in time, I'd skip over the 51 and pick this up, restoration or otherwise I REALLY love the look of the inlaid nib and the fact that it's a touchdown filler.

 

Ahh well, guess I'll keep looking every few days. I'll find another one some day

[pajaro]

Just an update: I did something real stupid

 

I only had about $60 in the bank, ended up winning a really nice Parker 51 Aero w/ medium tip for $55 (It was finishing up a few hours before this did).

 

The Imperial sold for $20 and I wasn't worried thinking I might find another, but sadly I havn't seen anything since and I've been looking daily ;_;

 

Honestly, I think if I could go back in time, I'd skip over the 51 and pick this up, restoration or otherwise I REALLY love the look of the inlaid nib and the fact that it's a touchdown filler.

 

Ahh well, guess I'll keep looking every few days. I'll find another one some day

 

While they are different pens, the Parker 51 aerometric and the Sheaffer Touchdown Imperial are both very nice pens, and they both write superbly. The aerometric's sac will likely outlast the Sheaffer's, but style is about the real decision point. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

 

Not too long ago I got a Sheaffer Touchdown Imperial with fine Triumph nib for $22 on ebay. You never know. This pen is smooth.

[WirlWind]

 

While they are different pens, the Parker 51 aerometric and the Sheaffer Touchdown Imperial are both very nice pens, and they both write superbly. The aerometric's sac will likely outlast the Sheaffer's, but style is about the real decision point. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

 

Not too long ago I got a Sheaffer Touchdown Imperial with fine Triumph nib for $22 on ebay. You never know. This pen is smooth.

 

I'm sure they'd both write nicely, but once I saw the design (the inlaid nib), it really started to grow on me. It's a very attractive pen, where as the 51 is more of a "it works and looks functional" style of pen. It almost looks like a ballpoint. Whereas I think the Sheaffer has just the right amount of flair to be like "Dude, that's a sexy pen" without them thinking "and you're a (bleep) for showing it off" afterwards

 

I might just have to wait, but one day I will own a Sheaffer with a 14k inlaid nib like that again. I have like 5 similar pens being watched on ebay. None will get even close to as cheap, but at least I know most of these are actually functional lol.

 

I had an option on one that was a c / c, but it had a stainless nib and I would ideally like to get a touchdown because it's so easy to fill + has that kick ass factor.

[OcalaFlGuy]

<Finger thwapping the end of the syringe of Anti-C-Worder serum/>

 

Yes the TD filler Does have that little sumpin' sumpin' that gets the C-Worder in everyone all excited...

 

SOMEday however, the TD filler is going to need to be rebuilt. You're going to need the sac and o-ring for that and someone to do it if you can't yourself. Yes, those items Are available (and Will likely remain so), but you Are Also in Australia.

 

OTOH, with the C/C models, your pen is back to writing again with a new Sheaffer converter or cart likely easily available most anywhere on earth.

 

(FWIW, my own personal decision is to Avoid the few models that are Cart ONLY. <The cart spike visibly sticks out the end of the section.>)

 

I actually DO like the TD filler itself though, it's 95% of the FLASHBANG! of the Snorkie without the unnecessary over complication of the Snork.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl