What Is Your Personal Preference On This?

[YeOlCaptain]

Hello everyone! I really want to buy a Pelikan, and am indecisive of buying either a Pelikan m200 or spending more and buying the Pelikan m400. What are the differences. Im mainly interested in knowing the differences on nib writing quality, writing performance, and the pleasure you have in writing with the pens, however feel free to chime in and tell me more differences. Also, I would very much like to hear which one you prefer.

 

Thanks!

[Jadie]

Huh. I only have a Pelikan M400, so I can't give you a comparison. From what I know, though, the M400 has fancier "furniture" (aka more gold trim) and a 14K gold nib VS. the M200's single gold trim and gold-plated steel nib.

 

Some people think there aren't any differences besides the aesthetics; others are convinced the 14K nib is better.

 

My Pelikan is actually a mix of both--fancy M400 furniture and boring ol' steel nib. It writes excellently, all smooth gliding goodness and steady ink flow. I can only speculate that a gold nib would give the same experience, if not better.

 

Here's a link to a thread with more in-depth discussion on your subject:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/3401-pelikan-m400-vs-m200/

 

EDIT: Ah, heck, I went around and found a few other links, too, since I have the time today.

 

M200 vs M400 Review

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/233179-pelikan-m200-vs-pelikan-m400/

 

M200 vs M400? Discussion

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/148898-m200-versus-m400/

 

Etc:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/88228-pelikan-nibs-m200m400m600/

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/87660-m200-body-vs-m400-body/

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/236789-help-with-m400-or-m200-choice/

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/146506-m200-vs-m400/

 

Ah, the eternal debate. 200 or 400? More or less gold trim? Why not just buy a M200 and scrounge a M400 nib from somewhere? =)

Edited November 26, 2013 by Jadie

[proton007]

Hello everyone! I really want to buy a Pelikan, and am indecisive of buying either a Pelikan m200 or spending more and buying the Pelikan m400. What are the differences. Im mainly interested in knowing the differences on nib writing quality, writing performance, and the pleasure you have in writing with the pens, however feel free to chime in and tell me more differences. Also, I would very much like to hear which one you prefer.

 

Thanks!

 

For the modern M200 and M400, apart from the aesthetics (gold trim and stripes), there isn't much difference. Yes the M400 has a 14K nib, but it doesn't really have any advantages over the gold plated steel nib of the M200.

 

My advice, buy an older 400 or 400NN if you're comfortable with the size. Two reasons :

• They sell for cheaper than a new M400 (you can find a well restored 400NN in green for about $130).
• The nibs are wonderful, the writing has character, unlike the thick blobs of the modern M400s.

[linearM]

I have an M200 and an M630. Between the two the basic difference is in their size. I have a medium sized hand and find the M630 more comfortable, simply because it is a bit bigger both in length and width. I'm not sure about the comparative size of an M200 and M400, probably not a lot. Check out Richard's Pens and look at their charts for Pelikan nibs and see which sizes are compatible with which Pelikan pen models. Since you are dealing with nib units it isn't that hard to change a nib if you aren't satisfied with the one you have.

[sargetalon]

Congratulations on deciding to buy a Pelikan. Great pens! The M200 and M400 have similar size, weight, and ink capacity. The M400 has some more trim rings at the piston knob and has a 14K nib. Both pens write very smoothly with a flow on the wetter side. I see no difference between the modern 14K and stainless steel nibs. Of course, the M200 will be significantly cheaper. Both have ink windows. They also both come in 205 and 405 varieties which only differ in chrome colored vs gold trim if that's more to your taste. Good luck with your decision.

[Pennata Penna]

Different resin. Different trims. Gold nibs don't rust, nor can have worn plating. Similar shape, but totally different pens. Different target market segment. Ygwypf. Either is a good buy.

 

Now, before you go willy nilly buying vintage pens on eBay, have a look the other "help! Parts needed" threads and yet got rubbish unhelpful reply if any. And a recent asker got some of the nicest vintage birds (Heck, his pencil cost more than most of your big pens.) Please stay away from vintage, OR if you insist, buy from a reputable dealer with warranty ie Rick Propas. Btw, he's also an authorised new Pelikan dealer. Win-win.

 

It cost me quite a bit of money and time to find these simple facts the hard way. All the best.

[Pterodactylus]

Different resin. Different trims. Gold nibs don't rust, nor can have worn plating. Similar shape, but totally different pens. Different target market segment. Ygwypf. Either is a good buy.

 

Now, before you go willy nilly buying vintage pens on eBay, have a look the other "help! Parts needed" threads and yet got rubbish unhelpful reply if any. And a recent asker got some of the nicest vintage birds (Heck, his pencil cost more than most of your big pens.) Please stay away from vintage, OR if you insist, buy from a reputable dealer with warranty ie Rick Propas. Btw, he's also an authorised new Pelikan dealer. Win-win.

 

It cost me quite a bit of money and time to find these simple facts the hard way. All the best.

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/7039/jkxl.jpg

 

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/5377/cv5q.jpg

 

(Pelikan 400NN - F ..... Rohrer & Klingner Verdura)

(Pelikan M600 - M ..... Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black)

[RitchieMac]

I have a M205 EF and M400 EF. They both have similar size, ergonomics and piston feel (IMO, Pelikan makes the best pistons). For writing performance and value for money, M205 is great. My M205 has the best steel nib amongst all my steel nib pens. It is smooth, springy (unlikely most of the other steel nib pens) and the feed is generous. This is a pen that I highly recommend.

 

Then why do I buy a M400 as well, which costs twice as much? Purely for the looks - it has the Souveran look as it is a Souveran pen. Because in between the writing, I like to admire the colours of the barrel and how it plays and glistens with the light as the pen is rotated. BTW, I have the white tortoise M400 - Beautiful...

Edited November 26, 2013 by RitchieMac

[Pennata Penna]

Pterodactylus.

 

I simply love Pelikan, be it modern, vintage, or whatever. I just buy them all. I don't praise nor bash one over another, which is for whatever personal reason, quite common here. Too common.

 

While I love vintage, I wouldn't be happy if it turns out that my, say, grey 100 or 400 barrel is hard to replace and the person who had suggested them can't help; Nor would I be happy if people of different level of expectations bash 'modern' Pelikan just because it's cool for noobs to do so. TLDR; I simply buy them all. I love them all. Yes I'm a Pelikan fanboy. While I typed this I got four 400s in the bath and the postie came and brought me another vintage nib. But should I stop buying new pens? Heck no. Ask my mate printhardcopy, heh.

 

Now. Regarding steel plating: I just recently turned a plated nib into a plain steel with silver polishing in minutes. Pic: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IWVWEHwfH5o/Taq91B9BilI/AAAAAAAACIo/piVFuI_eaiQ/s1600/IMG_3395.JPG --Regarding rust: here's my other nib http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3675/9650374235_8a0b70d11b.jpg (pardon the link, I hate wasting bandwidth with uncalled images, just click it) Look ma! I could see sunlight through steel! It was left dry with probably with gallic ink in the ED. Things like that happen, see. But this is not about "steel vs gold" nor "shark vs croc" childish bullcrap, you're all adults. You decide what you want and can afford. Some have only one pen, others buy sets be it steel or sterling whatever, horses for courses. Heck, I got steel nibs on my silver toledos. Again, YGWYPF.

 

All the best.

 

Tony Rex

 

PS: Yes, I do have those greys mentioned and some, but that's absolutely beside the point!

[Pterodactylus]

Thanks for your detailed answer.

 

A broken barrel or section is never easy (cheap) to replace and you are right for a vintage pen it is maybe a death verdict. But luckily they are not prone to breaking by themselves and the pen prices are (for most common pens) in an area that a new vintage pen costs as much or less as a new Souverän Barrel (of the bigger ones).

So yes you might get a lemon buying a vintage pen, it's always a game as they are old and time makes no thing better, but the damage is not higher or less than a breakdown on a modern pen.

 

Come on .... , you don't want really to compare vintage steel with modern steel ....

On modern stainless steel nibs you most likely will never ever see such a picture.

And even you would, wouldn't you say 50 years of usage was worth the 20€ nib unit price (for a M2xx nib unit)?

 

I modified my Noodler's Ahab steel nib (EMF - ease my flex) grinded steel away and the nib is continuously exposed to iron gall ink (Salix, by the way one of the best inks you can get), no flushing, no maintenance, just refill when it's empty. And even on this cheap (Indian) stainless steel nib there is not a hint of corrosion even with strong magnification on the cutting edges.

Modern stainless steel will not corrode from ink influence (no matter what ink you use), and it's not a plating thing, so even if you cut into it, it will not rust, as it's an inherent material attribute of modern stainless steels.

[proton007]

^^ Stainless steel vs steel.

[Pennata Penna]

http://earnestward.blogspot.com/2013/01/roses-are-red-tools-of-trade-6.html?m=1

 

Rust and moth devour all including gold. Just at a slower rate, that's all. There's a reason bulk vintage dealers tend to price their stuff out of gold scrap value. Pen make and model mean stuff all to them. Then gradually less so to the smaller volume /retailer.

 

I thought these things are common knowledge http://www.nibs.com/WhyUseGoldNibs.htm

 

Edit: When I say Steel it's short for Stainless Steel. No manufacturer is stupid enough to use plain steel for nib material. Certainly not PILOT nor Pelikan.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Pennata Penna

[Pterodactylus]

I can only repeat myself, durability is NO argument to buy a gold nib anymore (at least the last 40 years).

This Pelikan Signum P5xx is my second FP I received as little pupil about 30 years ago.
The first one a Pelikano did not survived by "caring" treatment. .

 

It never ever saw any maintenance, nobody I knew as a kid flushed or maintained a FP, just fill ink and it´s ready to go, funny color changes when you change to a different color included.
It dried out with ink many times.

I did (as far as I remember) things with this nib which were never intended to do with a FP, and it still writes perfectly and shows not a hint of corrosion after more than 30 years of heavy and not caring usage.

 

So when you buy now a steel nib (e.g. on a Pelikan 2xx pen) and do not destroy it by force, it will last more than likely longer than your remaining lifetime, no matter how young you are.

 

You may prefer gold nibs for the look or for the "precious" material, but durability is for sure no argument for a gold nib (nor will you give a gold nib a better writing performance per se, the writing performance is depending on the nib engineering and not the nib material, there are good and bad gold nibs as well as good and bad steel nibs).

http://imageshack.com/a/img716/5429/z14c.jpg

(Pelikan Signum P5xx - EF ..... ESS Registrars Blue/Black)

[Pennata Penna]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-vl9yrUmaKPk/UNOgMCEnaWI/AAAAAAAABsw/5DYgRhuGjhs/s1600/IMG_9865.jpg

 

Care to comment on that nib's durability before going on testimonials, please? Wait, nevermind. I'll ask him whether he abused it by force or not.

 

Ironically, I love Pelikan steel nibs, I just don't expect them to be what they are not.

 

Peace,

Tony Rex

[Pterodactylus]

Ok, let's agree to disagree.

 

How could I comment on a single picture without any details on some internet blog?

 

The problem not even is shown in detail, it could be everything, a single event, a faulty steel band batch, some weird chemical reaction on mixed inks, writing with non FP IG ink or home brew stuff, even that he used very acidic cleaners, almost everything is possible.

And in this world nothing is impossible.

 

My personal experience is different, in more than 30 years using personally steel nibs I never observed any corrosion problem nor I heard something like that from people I know (talking not about very old vintage steel nibs)

I used several Pelikan, Montblanc and Herlitz steel nib FPs for that long time period myself

 

If this would be a common problem I'm sure that there would be tons of threads on FPN regarding this, but this is not the case.....

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Should I also postulate another thesis?

"Gold nibs are prone to cracking AND corrosion, beware of buying a gold nib, you will regret it very soon"

 

Here is the proof please take a look yourself !!!

 

http://www.goldnibs.com/portfolio/belmont-pen-8/

 

What do you say now please comment on the weakness and non suitableness of gold as nib material!

 

Just kidding

Edited November 27, 2013 by Pterodactylus

[ebearius]

If you are at the point of trying to justify the upcharge for the 400, you might as well buy the 400. I bought the 205. I liked it. I still like it. But something gnawed at me about owning the "stripped down model".

Then I bought a couple of 400's....and an 800

Now, for strictly utilitarian purposes, they all operate flawlessly and are delightful to uses. But there is more to a pen than utility. The mere fact that you are on this site suggests that you appreciate all of he visual and tactile aesthetics that that accompany utility.

Just buy the 400 and skip the first $100.00 step. It won't be the last Pelikan you buy anyway.

[proton007]

Pennata,

I have serious doubts over your apprehension with vintage Pelikans.

If theres one pen that can be bought vintage, its the 400. There are so many of them its easy to find one in working condition, and once you buy a working pen chances are it'll be working for a long time to come.

If someone is capable of damaging the nib or breaking barrels in regular use then they shouldn't be buying FPs in the first place.

Edited November 27, 2013 by proton007

[Bo Bo Olson]

One should not get distracted...and lose the whole long post, with all the reasoning....pages long.

Two at least.

 

Buy a first 200 it has a nice thin sharp semi-/vintage line, with nice spring...2 of the ones I transshipped were as springy as my 120 . Three were as springy as my '90's M400 and Celebry.

Stated lots of reasons why the modern half a flex and half a width wider M400 is not as good.

That will get you use to a very nice nib.

.

Then a 140 (or Geha 790)because it's semi-flex...use that for a few months before buying a 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex 400NN.

 

You can buy a modern M400 used, with the money saved, send it to a nibmeister to get the nib thinned, and have a bit of flex added to it...at least '90's...if not semi-flex.

Modern Pelikan nibs may be butter smooth, but they are fat and blobby.

 

There are different colors of the 200 ...so take your time and find one that you like. They have been coming out with different colors every other year it seem like.

 

Steel nibs are fine...got some from the '30's-50's.

Yes if you stick a steel nibbed pen in the drawer two or three generations before with Iron Gall ink it will corrode a nib....Pelikan Royal Blue not. Yep...out of 35-40 old pens, two steel nibs were really corroded.. They were war pens, so stuff to make them stainless could have been in too short supply to make them stainless...and both pens had iron gall ink in them.....after a while I can tell if it's sort of stringy Iron gall or nice make a friendly cloud Pelikan Royal Blue.

 

If you flush your pen every month to 6 weeks, you will have no trouble.

If you never change your oil in your car...it will corrode your engine.

 

Modern inks are not as corrosive as long ago. And if you use Iron Gall ink...it is a high maintenance ink like many of Noodlers or Private Reserve. Clean your pens ever four weeks.

This is not back in the ignorant times of last century when folks didn't know enough to clean their pens or even that it could be done....therefore Parker stopped making the '90's high maintenance Parker Pennmann inks. @ the turn of the century 2000. (I do like that turn of the century...in most of my life that was 1900...an old fogy thing.)

 

A good steel nib is as good as a good gold nib. Osmia, Pelikan war nibs, Pelikan 120 and 150-200's nibs. accent on Good...

Edited November 27, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

[Pennata Penna]

Pennata,

I have serious doubts over your apprehension with vintage Pelikans.

If theres one pen that can be bought vintage, its the 400. There are so many of them its easy to find one in working condition, and once you buy a working pen chances are it'll be working for a long time to come.

If someone is capable of damaging the nib or breaking barrels in regular use then they shouldn't be buying FPs in the first place.

I too have doubts of some people's comprehension of vintage pens. If one is capable of shaming Pelikan on a public forum, sometimes over a simple warranty claim, he ought not even think of touching a 400 let alone recommending everyone to buy it off eBay. And he often easily dismiss a modern M400 as blobby, unfit for writing, etc. Yes, strong doubts on their reasoning. And manner too. Peace.

 

Tony

Edited November 28, 2013 by Pennata Penna

[proton007]

I too have doubts of some people's comprehension of vintage pens. If one is capable of shaming Pelikan on a public forum, sometimes over a simple warranty claim, he ought not even think of touching a 400 let alone recommending everyone to buy it off eBay. And he often easily dismiss a modern M400 as blobby, unfit for writing, etc. Yes, strong doubts on their reasoning. And manner too. Peace.

Tony

A bad product is a bad product.

When a pen costs more than a vintage, writes worse than a vintage, and has quality issues far worse than any vintage pen, its a bad product.

 

And as a customer I guess everyone of us has the right to shame a company publicly for making bad products. We don't owe them our allegiance.

 

However, I highly praise the same company when it comes to their vintage pens.

 

What does that mean? I'll always praise a good product and bash a bad one. Welcome to the real world.

 

EDIT: As I recall, you had the same attitude when I'd complained about the new Pelikans. I think we both pretty much know where we stand on the issue.

Edited November 28, 2013 by proton007