Shame Using Collectables?

[peterg]

You bought it, it is yours to preserve, use or destroy.

 

However NOS doesn't come along every day and it will never be NOS again if used. There are plenty of 51 daily users out there. Why not sell it at a premium and buy one of those? That way you will have made a profit, have a daily writer and the pen will have been preserved for prosperity.

 

An impartial view as I don't like 51's! Make mine a Duofold, Vac, Parkette or Televisor any day.

[GTOZack]

wow i havent heard about televisor in a long time, Canadian right?

[icevic]

It depends if you are a User or a Collector.

 

If you're a Collector then you want to keep your pens pristine: store them properly, handle them gingerly, and don't use them. That's the whole point of Collecting: you keep your stuff in perfect condition because that's how you appreciate it.

 

If you're a User then you just use the pens you have, and if they break or you lose them you buy new ones. No problem.

 

The minute you use a NOS pen you drop it down from NOS to a lower grade. You've destroyed some of the value. That's fine if you like to do that, but there are only so many NOS pens out there so why not leave those to the Collectors if you can? No sense paying a premium for NOS when you can buy an identical used pen for less, unless you get a great deal on it.

 

I am surprised so many people here don't understand what Collecting is all about.

 

I've bought and used NOS pens but they were from the 1970's and 80's and were not particularly rare or valueable so using them scarcely changed their value.

 

In the end it is the free market that determines the price of goods, and as buyers we only have to decide if we want to purchase that good or not for the offered price. We don't have to speculate on the intrinsic or projected value: just buy it or not, and that sets the value. In the end if there is a huge demand for a NOS 1950's Parker 51, for example, then it will be priced high enough that the average User will simply not see the value in it and they will be left for the Collectors.

 

But for now, with a surprisingly large supply of NOS vintage fountain pens out there, we can purchase them for a small premium and use them if we want to. I think fountain pens are inherently collectible and valueable and vintage pens will appreciate in the short, medium, and long term, especially as middle class Chinese and Indian Collectors start entering the market in huge numbers - but that is just my opinion. In the mean time, the free market allows us to do what we want with them.

 

What I hate to the see is when the market prices the scrap value of the gold in the nib as greater than the entire intact pen and perfectly useable vintage pens get broken into scrap. But I guess the market will correct that in the end: less vintage pens on the market means higher prices in the long term, since they aren't making any more.

 

Better buy them while you can!

[OcalaFlGuy]

Oh goody, can I play C-Worder too?

 

I say the use or not Really revolves around that PIA R word.

 

To ME, unless someone has numbers to change my mind, which I doubt, the Actual subject of the original question, a NOS Window Pane capped 51 just isn't Rare enough (or close Enough to rare) to warrant being stuck away and not used. Now, (and I'm not so up on Rare) talk about a NOS Fishscale set or Presidential Set and I head towards Don't Use. Items with special significance I'd lean towards not using even it they exist in numbers, a NOS 1st Year 51 comes to mind.

 

IMO, the vast majority of us don't own pens, or many of them, that are genuinely so rare they shouldn't be used.

 

(That's Not to say there aren't a good many FPers that DO have such items, just not the vast majority.)

 

I'm a confirmed Accumuluser. I'm allergic to NOS. I traded a stickered red Icicle to Antonios for an unstickered one because it got on my nerves.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Edited November 27, 2013 by OcalaFlGuy

[loudkenny]

Yes, I collect pens.

 

Anybody who has more than one pen does too. It's all a matter of degree. Do I have nice pens? Yes... just look in the avatar. However, I don't obsess about perfection. I would much rather have a pen I can use, than one I have to keep in a dark padded box in a safe because the sun might fade it.

 

There are some obsessive people who ***MUST*** have a perfect 51 or whatever they collect. More power to them. I believe pens or other collectibles are to be used, but not abused. I would rather sell any perfect objects I find to these collectors so they can have them, just as long as I can have one 'not so nice' that I can enjoy too.

 

My father collects vintage fender telecasters and stratocasters. esp autographed by leo fender and/or george fullerton himself he never plays them Instead, he buys the same color, model and appox year range to trash amp

If you think pen collecting is bad, try collecting guitars or antique cars. I should talk... I like old guitars too.

 

ken

[Sasha Royale]

A mint condition pen is worth more than NOS. NOS is worth more than "used". Do you intend to sell the pen ? If so, then sell the pen. Keep a picture of it, and admire the beauty. Since I do not intend to sell my pens, I used them, respectfully and lovingly. Will they be diminished in value, when my heirs USE the pens ? No ! Will they be diminished in value, when my heirs sell the pens ? I don't care.

.

So, decide. Why do you have this fountain pen ?

.

"Go thy way. Eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart."

[maksim]

Are people seriously comparing a signed baseball of which there is one or two, to a mass produced pen?

 

Once the people are dead, there are no more signatures that can be produced. A pen... is just that, a pen.

 

Anyone can easily reproduce the pen. Better yet, I guarantee in about 25 years, you will be able to reproduce any item you want, 3D Printing is here. You can 3d print plastic, alloys and metals. They are out there and already making a big dent into the CNC machine business. Put up a design and you can make anything you want.

 

Pens, I am afraid, unlike great baseball players, are going to be more and more looked down upon as we use technology, speech recognition and I am sure in no time, thought recognition.

 

There are no collectible matches as far as I know. There are lighters.

Collectible Betamax or VHS players?

What is the collectors market for a Packard Bell 286SX2 computer?

 

I hate to say it, but these markets, along with stamp collecting and others are slowly going into insignificance. Baseball cards anyone? The kids these days just don't get it, and more and more, you can more easily reproduce and fake it.

 

We all earn our money and can spend it as we want. I just hope these posts don't give new people the impression that somehow buying a new pen and never touching it will make them millions of dollars. =) Spend your money and do what makes you happy with it, be it fondling it like a precious diamond ring, or using it as it was intended to be used.

 

..(and yes, I do have 4 like new in box colt revolvers, and all were shot by me... got to make sure they work, and why not enjoy the beauties. =)

[usk15]

Shame?!? NO!

I'm proudly using a Parker Vacumtic Major 1943 almost everyday! I’m looking forward for a Sheaffer Sentinel to arrive and to be used!

[OcalaFlGuy]

A mint condition pen is worth more than NOS.

 

You have that backassards.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[ANM]

Maksim, glad to hear you understand that uncommon, limited quantity items are different than common mundane things. Not all vintage pens are uncommon nor were ever held in high value. There are some that do deserve to be esteemed above everyday usage. Telegraphs and phone booths are obsolete but are still collected. Maybe it's because no one uses them any more that they are more desired today. And the baseball I mentioned was indeed mass produced, at least on a limited basis. Even so it was beneficial to treat it differently than a sandlot baseball.

[balson]

Are people seriously comparing a signed baseball of which there is one or two, to a mass produced pen?

 

Once the people are dead, there are no more signatures that can be produced. A pen... is just that, a pen.

 

Anyone can easily reproduce the pen. Better yet, I guarantee in about 25 years, you will be able to reproduce any item you want, 3D Printing is here. You can 3d print plastic, alloys and metals. They are out there and already making a big dent into the CNC machine business. Put up a design and you can make anything you want.

 

Pens, I am afraid, unlike great baseball players, are going to be more and more looked down upon as we use technology, speech recognition and I am sure in no time, thought recognition.

 

There are no collectible matches as far as I know. There are lighters.

Collectible Betamax or VHS players?

What is the collectors market for a Packard Bell 286SX2 computer?

 

I hate to say it, but these markets, along with stamp collecting and others are slowly going into insignificance. Baseball cards anyone? The kids these days just don't get it, and more and more, you can more easily reproduce and fake it.

 

We all earn our money and can spend it as we want. I just hope these posts don't give new people the impression that somehow buying a new pen and never touching it will make them millions of dollars. =) Spend your money and do what makes you happy with it, be it fondling it like a precious diamond ring, or using it as it was intended to be used.

 

..(and yes, I do have 4 like new in box colt revolvers, and all were shot by me... got to make sure they work, and why not enjoy the beauties. =)

 

i collect old paper matchbooks from time to time. i just enjoy the old graphic design on them mostly. i get the sense that the people who saved them originally kept them as mementos to remember places they had been. and i know there is more of a collectors market for your old packard than you would think.

 

its possible to collect anything really. i know a dude in florida who collects and repairs old space heaters. living in central florida there is not much a a functional need for space heaters but he lovingly restores them to working order none the less and will happily tell you all the differences between them whether you want to know or not.

 

i think with collecting there is an emotional worth that is applied to the objects that is often much greater than the inherent physical worth of the object.

[Florida Blue]

 

Anyone can easily reproduce the pen. Better yet, I guarantee in about 25 years, you will be able to reproduce any item you want, 3D Printing is here. You can 3d print plastic, alloys and metals. They are out there and already making a big dent into the CNC machine business. Put up a design and you can make anything you want.

 

There are several highly skilled pen makers out there that sell exact replicas of 51s and other collectable pens like Duofolds, Balances, Waterman 52s, but even very nice examples don't sell anywhere near a very nice original example.

 

I think people will always pay a premium for an original example of a rare pen over a replica no matter how well it is made. I don't know much about 3D printers so perhaps you could make a 51 with one, but a serious collector would want the original made by Parker in Janesville, WI.

[OcalaFlGuy]

 

There are several highly skilled pen makers out there that sell exact replicas of 51s and other collectable pens like Duofolds, Balances, Waterman 52s, but even very nice examples don't sell anywhere near a very nice original example.

 

I think people will always pay a premium for an original example of a rare pen over a replica no matter how well it is made. I don't know much about 3D printers so perhaps you could make a 51 with one, but a serious collector would want the original made by Parker in Janesville, WI.

 

I think Mr. Thompson's "replicas" are nearly the price of the real deal in the rarer colors anyway. I know that Asian replicators Duofolds have sold for Higher than an equivalent original.

 

I DO however, wholeheartedly agree with the last part of your last sentence.

 

Bruce in Oclaa, Fl

[rochester21]

Every pen can be seen as a "collectible" just because someone might put it in a collection(just like bottle caps). The only difference when it comes to a rarer older model is the value of it. Of course, one might consider the fact that certain rare items are better preserved of in a museum, but i now tend to believe that the products of mass-production, like most pens, are not that important as to preserve untouched for future generations.

 

If parker 51 is such an important pen, why don`t they start making it again(did they lose the schematics?). As for "museum pieces", they can display used pens as far as i`m concerned, they have more personality exactly because they belonged to someone- that`s the purpose of pens, to be used. A unused pen is like a painting that no one ever sees.

Edited November 27, 2013 by rochester21

[usk15]

...used pens as far as i`m concerned, they have more personality exactly because they belonged to someone- that`s the purpose of pens, to be used.

 

 

That's right! That's my philosophy!

[pajaro]

The purpose of a pen is to be written with. We are all temporary custodians of pens. If you keep it NOS, the next custodian might ink it. At the end of the day, who cares?

[maksim]

good question, why did they stop making the 51?

 

I do like the parker pens quite a bit. =)

[maksim]

And I do apologize if I ruffled some feathers. By collectible, I am talking about items that have value to more than just the one person.

 

Ie, yes, anyone can collect bottle caps, pogs, cars, marriages (hehe), or pens, guns, swords, plants, etc.

 

In that regard, as I stated previously, if someone collects for the sake of collecting, and not for the monetary value, then they can do as they please. ie, if they want to have a certain pen in every color in new, uninked condition..... Myself, I "collected" Alexei Kovalev hockey cards. I wanted to get one of each made out there. By most accounts, the monetary value of such a collection would be close to zero, as I doubt many people find him quite collectible.

 

On the other hand, there are collectors who pick up items and keep them new in box because they can sell it for more money in the future, like Art, mint condition cars, firearms, etc. This is the segement I was referring to. I do not think the pen market is one of art or guns. It is not something that is limited produced or has a growing base of followers. Technology can replicate it at very little cost. Modern methods can reproduce a Parker 51 or old Mont Blanc, or any pen out there if they know the plans for it.

 

Unlike...

That baseball someone mentioned. You can get another baseball, but it was signed by the team, who are no longer around and it was limited. No way to reproduce it.

Fine art by artists that are no longer here.

Guns that cannot be legally produced anymore or factory is out. Take a look at a Colt Python or any other Colt or particularly German rifles from 50's to 70's, in the blued, or in case of Colt, Royal Blue finish. Gorgeous, and based on EPA regulations, you cannot do that type of finish anymore.

 

Hope that makes it clear where I am coming from. Not saying I am right, just my view from the ouside, and what the reactions I get from my own family and many friends and clients who know about my new fountain pen appreciation.

[Florida Blue]

good question, why did they stop making the 51?

 

I do like the parker pens quite a bit. =)

 

No worries, no feathers were ruffled

 

I suppose Parker stopped making the 51 because it was out-of-date and the pen market had changed. When Parker discontinued the 51 in the USA in 1972 it was a design that had been in production (more or less) since 1941 and in the 1940s most people used a fountain pen (or pencil) for daily writing, but by the 70s the fountain pen market had nearly collapsed because of disposable ballpoint pens. Parker decided/needed to become a niche, luxury, gift company to survive (like Montblanc, Waterman etc.). The need for a utilitarian, workhorse fountain pen had been superseded by the gift market that saw fountain pens as luxury items.

 

However, the 51 ceased being Parker's top-of-the-line pen when the 61 was introduced in 1956, even though they were still selling 1 million+ 51s a year. By the 60s, Parker stopped actively advertising the 51. The 61, was designed to compete with the Snorkel as a "clean" filling fountain pen. Only the Snorkel tube was covered in ink when being filled. In the 61 only the Teflon coated tube was covered in ink, it filled by itself (through a sponge that soaked up ink) and the ink just fell off the coating. In 1960, Parker introduced the 45 (supposedly named after the Colt revolver). It used the revolutionary cartridge/converter system, which was easy, convenient and required no bottled ink at all (no mess, stains, spills or inky fingers). The 45 was truly a "clean" filling pen. By the end of the 70s, all American Parker fountain pens were C/C fill.

[welch]

A pen is meant to write. If you fill and write with a "collectible", you are simply putting to use a pen that was neglected, left on the store shelves or in a warehouse. Forgotten and then discovered. Think of this as `1952 and you have just bought the pen from the pen counter of a local department store.