Incorporating The "long S" Into Standard Cursive

[lowfiwhiteguy]

Hey guys,

I am a "Renaissance Man" I suppose, and I've always been fond of Victorian era script. It's kind of what got me back into using cursive, and getting into fountain pens. I've always enjoyed seeing the long S in German, but I think it's something that is graceful and elegant in English writing. A bit of an anachronism but I think it should make a comeback! Who of you use the long s in your everyday writing, if anybody? I'd like some tips of making my long s look like a long s and not an f or a t. Of course, I use this following the rules, only in the middle of words or as the first letter of a word.

 

Included is a photo of the word "Anachronism" in my own Victorian-influenced writing style that I'm trying to develop (this is an early work in progress, or progreſs) which also includes a "crossed C" which occurs a lot in German handwriting of old, and I like the look of it.

Of course it looks kind of stilted right now but with time and practice and forcing myself to write like this at every opportunity, I hope to make it look more natural. I think a lot of this stems from the fact that I have always hated writing the standard cursive s.

What do you guys think? Anyone else do this or am I just an eccentric? Do you think it would just confuse people or can this be done in a way that makes it look like a definite S, but just "long"?

 

Cheers!

 

[Paddler]

Wow. When you mentioned "long s", I immediately thought of the German esszet, but I had never seen its cursive form before. Now that I know what it is (in addition to the crossed c), I could read it without much effort. However, I am sure it would confuse someone not "in the know".

[lowfiwhiteguy]

Yeah the esszet is two S's one beside the other, one long and one short. Like this: ſs

 

Over time they got closer and closer and then at some point linked at the top to give it it's shape today. And then then long s fell into disuse. I just think it's really cool.

I'm thinking though, maybe I should focus more on standard handwriting to improve my natural writing than trying too early to come up with some sort of ostentatious script style. Haha. Maybe I should get a book for practice...

[mirosc]

Yeah the esszet is two S's one beside the other, one long and one short. Like this: ſs

Not quite. Like the name says, it's not two s's but s+z, with the z having a "tail" at the bottom (originating from blackletter, gothic, Kurrent, Sütterling). Like this: ſʒ

 

For OP's question: I wouldn't recommend it, most people aren't used to it anymore and have difficulties in reading it. I have a colleague who writes with the long s and I prefer not to read his handwriting...

On the other hand: I'm writing my z as a tailed z and I guess others feel the same about me handwriting :-)

 

So: if you go for the ſ you might as well go for the ʒ ...

Edited November 23, 2013 by mirosc

[lowfiwhiteguy]

Haha, of course. I do speak German, and I never stopped to listen to the "S, Z" name of the letter. I do know that the esszet in modern is effectively two S's though... But I agree with your opinion that it may be a bit too extreme for daily use. I might just get a good Blackletter calligraphy book to get my long S urges out, and leave my handwriting unmolested.

Not quite. Like the name says, it's not two s's but s+z, with the z having a "tail" at the bottom (originating from blackletter, gothic, Kurrent, Sütterling). Like this: ſʒ

 

For OP's question: I wouldn't recommend it, most people aren't used to it anymore and have difficulties in reading it. I have a colleague who writes with the long s and I prefer not to read his handwriting...

On the other hand: I'm writing my z as a tailed z and I guess others feel the same about me handwriting :-)

 

So: if you go for the ſ you might as well go for the ʒ ...

[HDoug]

I've also been tempted to use the long s, the one that makes "west" look a little like "weft." In italic it's just an f without a crossbar and italic double long esses are rather gorgeous looking constructions. I haven't done that yet because people aren't used to it and would have a hard(er) time reading my writing. But I'm still contemplating that...

 

Doug

[beak]

The dangers of the long s are manifold; Alice reads from an old bible ...

Edited November 23, 2013 by beak

[Fountainnib]

Gadzooks! what a wonderful thread. Does it bespeak an effete decadence of a mortally-wounded civilization?--or rather, a commendable interest in a significant aspect of our cultural heritage, and, just possibly (as I shall attempt to show) an aspect of some practical utility? As an act of compassion towards myself, and towards my fellow fountain pen maniacs, I choose to believe the latter.

 

I have for many years used the long ess in handwriting ("cursive," according to the New Learning, I guess)--but only in the formation of the initial letter of the double-ess. My practical reason is, that it is easier on the hand than the double-backup contortion of two consecutive short esses. My aesthetic reasons are, that I like the way it looks and feels; and it also betokens my respect for our cultural heritage; and I believe that it should be preserved and known to us. I follow the pattern of its last use in cursive, in which it was preserved only as a kind of ligature for the "double-ess"; and I observe that my father always spelled words out loud with the expression, "double-ess"--which, perhaps, indicates a vestigial imagining of two consecutive esses as a special ligature, even after this feature had disappeared from handwriting and print. I personally do not utilize two consecutive long-esses, but only long ess-short ess. The reason is, that I tend to form my lower-case effs (Fs) with the decending loop made clockwise--again, in the interest of speed and physical ease; and it would make for too much confusion to have the characters for double-ess in the center of a word and double-eff (double-eph) look pretty much the same. I have, however, refrained from imposing my long-ess mania on others, up to now, at least: I use long-esses only in my private handwriting, in the interests of speed--which is, for me, a very practical consideration. My handwriting is abominable; but readable by my wife and myself. In those instances in which I must write something to be read by others, I consciously revert to short esses throughout; the youngsters out there have enough trouble with my terminal tees, thank you; I cannot conceive of a speaker of modern "up-talk" understanding what on earth the long ess is about; it just does not compute, not even in my fevered imagination.

 

In print, the long ess followed a different and quite complex set of rules--the Wikipedia article on the subject is a good place to start--and there, the use of two consecutive esses was the rule, rather than the exception, except at the end of a word. The long ess seemed to have died out rather suddenly (with some exceptions) around 1804--except, of course, in Germany and Scandinavia. Its death was a French-Revolutionary thing, even though the ascendancy of universal short-esses had been gradually growing (Benjamin Franklin commented on an example of this). As we all know, the Germans still use it to a limited extent. I once got a letter may years ago from an older American who had been reared in Germany, and who, for some reason, assumed that I read German fluently: and he employed the Roman script with double-ess ligatures, as I have described above. The Gothic script is--or was--quite different in appearance. Talk about manias: what else does one call it when one forms lower-case "u" and "n" the same, and then distinguishes them from one another by placing a small "u" above the former?

 

In the English-speaking countries, the long ess appears to have survived up to, or almost up to, living memory. Take a look, if you will, at the book, Titanic, by Leo Marriott (Smithmark, 1997). On page 99, there appears a photograph of a letter by one Reverend John Harper of the Walworth Road Baptist Church of London, dated 2nd April 1912, in which he uses consecutive short esses throughout, except in the word, "Miss", for which he employs long ess-short ess. Apparently, the word "Miss" was thought of as a kind of glyph or logo, as it were. (Today, it is largely replaced by the barbaric "Ms.", heaven help us; I was taught that "Miss" is the term proper for use by a professional woman who does not wish her marital status to be made public; "Ms. is therefore redundant, at best.)

 

The long ess dates back to Roman times; and its continued use for so long a time shows, in my opinion at least, a meticulous concern over niceties of expression and form that has, alas, become progressively attenuated; and its disappearance is but one sign of such attenuation. Such attention to detail was found in the music of the time as well, as well as virtually everything else that the old masters did. The long ess fell victim to the egalitarianism and mass-culture of the post-French-revolutionary years; in this sense, it was perhaps a logical outcome of the Enlightenment (and I do applaud egalitarianism, as long as it be undertaken with a due respect for excellence and for history, rather than as a general "dumbing-down," which last is surely a misapplication of the true Democratic principles of the Enlightenment). It is paradoxical that just as eyeglasses improved, the long ess died out--although, as noted above, it continued to be used in handwriting for several generations thereafter. There is an interesting illustration of an excerpt from the Encyclopedia Brittannica from 1816, and, then from 1823--the only difference being the replacement of the long ess by short ess throughout. I must say that the short ess version looks much cleaner and more legible, even though I am certainly accustomed to reading long-essed material in both print and cursive. Paradoxically, the computer has made it relatively easy for the long ess to make something of a comeback--but (so I have read) the rules for its use are so complex as to defy easy codification in the form of software programming. You revert to short ess in the vicinity of eff, for example, for obvious reasons. I personally am quite content to stick with short ess in print; what I do in handwriting meant for my eyes only is my business. But the acuity of aesthetic discrimination and attention to detail that enabled our culture to support two different forms of lower-case esses is valuable for its own sake: and it is the demise of this acuity in many walks of life that I personally mourn far more than I do the demise of the long ess.

[Gentlemind63]

I am using a cursive version of the old-school Sutterlin script in my private journal (FONT), and I use the 'long s' there, but not in everyday writing. There are, of course, literally dozens of rules concerning the use of the 'long s'- many of them conflicting- but I limit my pesonal use to these rules:

 

1. The 'long s' is never used at the end of a sentence.

 

2. No consecutive 'ss', long or short, use the 'etzett' instead.

 

I second the notion above that it might not be a good idea to use the 'long s' for public writings; while I am personally all for it, the problems associated with others not having a clue about it are obvious. If you are writing to a friend or colleague who knows what's what, you might incorporate it, but for general consumption I'd stick with 'standard' letters.

 

An observation on the handwriting sample provided, if I may: in aid of setting the 'long s' apart from standard letters, and possibly helping to avoid any confusion should you use it for everyday writing, I would increase the height to at least that of your 'h' and the depth to at least whatever your lower loops go to. And I noticed the lower-case 'crossed c' right off as well- that's straight out of the Sutterlin script I use.

 

(Why Sutterlin- a dead script not taught since the late 30's and notoriously difficult to read, much less write? Remember, it's being used in a private journal! Can't read it? GOOD!)

 

I'll add a scan of "is an Anachronism" in my own hand this weekend for the OMGWHATISTHAT moment.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Gentlemind63

[mcdurl]

Here's an 18th-century example:

 

 

From George Washington's first inaugural address. http://www.archives.gov/legislative/features/gw-inauguration/#images
I really enjoy his writing.

Mike

[the flexistentialist]

I used the long s for almost a year, because I truly loved the look of it. And I still do. But after explaining that I wasn't misspelling simple words over and over became rather tedious... I took it out of my public penmanship. It stayed in my notes to myself and in journals and things that were just going to be read by me. I don't know why, but it made my grocery lists seem very classy. Sadly it fell out of my private handwriting too, due to under-use. I thought I was being eccentric at the time, but I've discovered since then, there are more people enamored of that letter than I thought.

 

I hope you keep up your experimentation with the long s and will show us some more samples – it's a lovely piece of history that fits beautifully in many handwriting styles. Whether it fits into daily life... that's really up to you and your readers.

 

The Flexistentialist

[mirosc]

It becomes fun when you start incorporating not only the long s, but also the long r (e.g. from Insular scripts and early Carolingian scripts like the Luxeuil variant) into your handwriting:

 

http://www.phil-gesch.uni-hamburg.de/edition/Palaeographie/AngelsaechsischeSpitzschrift.jpg

If you like training your Insular reading skills:

tus episcopus ciuitas rodoma . maurinus episcopus ciuitas eboracas . genbaudus episcopus ciuitas
laudumo . hildigangus episcopus ciuitas suaseonis . athalfridus episcopus . ciuitas nouionis
megingozus episcopus ciuitas uuirziaburgo . uuilliharius episcopus de monasterio sancti mau
rici folricus episcopus ciuitas tungris. theodulfus episcopus de monasterio laubicis.
Hiddo episcopus ciuitas agustoduno . yppolitus episcopus demonasterio eogendi . Iacob episcopus