Can Someone Id This Pen - Themis Vintage

November 15, 2013

Hi Folks

I bought a pen on Ebay. It didn't cost much, £4.99 plus shipping, but I am intrigued as to what exactly it is.

It was sold as a Themis Vintage Fountain pen, but google doesn't bring anything up for that brand, so hoping you guys may be able to shed some light on it.

Here is a pic of the pen.

This is what I know (which isn't much)

Materials - Seems to be green plastic. Not sure about the feed, I am guessing plastic. It did smell a bit when I got it, almost like rubber bands, but I washed it and the smell went away, so I don't imagine anything other than plastic.

Filling Mechanism - Piston filler. Small blind cap comes off to reveal a piston turning knob. With the blind cap on the pen it is barely noticeable that there is a break in the barrel. Seems to hold around 1.5ml of ink which is good on a relatively thin pen. also has a clear ink window.

Pic of ink window

Nib - 14k Gold, Semi Flex, would go from European Extra Fine to double broad maybe? It has a picture of a lion on the nib.

Not something I recognize

Here is a pic of the nib

Cap - Green Plastic with gold(plated?) accents. The word THEMIS is written between the end of the clip and the centre band.

I tried to capture it in these pics

So Can anyone tll me anythign about it?

It only cost a few pounds, so I don't mind if it is a cheap brand. It writes well, and seems a nice pen to have, so I am happy either way, just curious

Thanks in advance

Ren

November 15, 2013

I'd love to see a writing sample when you can, Renfield. Even if it is a "3rd tier" brand, if it is a good flexy writer, I'd say you definitely nailed one this time!

November 16, 2013

Here is my poor attempt at a writing sample.

You can see the flexiness of the nib. It is quite a soft nib, so on most down strokes even with a little pressure it starts to open the tines.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7398/10878152725_69505d7256_b.jpg

November 16, 2013

I was right, that is a great find- info on it forthcoming or not!

November 16, 2013

Lucky, lucky...that is a Rupp nib.

Rupp was a nib maker in Heidelberg from 1920's to 1970.

I am judging the flex rate off a One nib sample and a few comments from other lucky Rupp nib owners.

My single Rupp nib is the most flexible of my 13- 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nibs.

A system of measuring I abandoned in it was only for me.

Most of my 'flexi' nibs were F-1, some were markably more flexible. F-1 1/4th.

One was F-1 1/2 my Rupp nib.

Then, I didn't know much other than I had then some 10-15 semi-flex pens...have 26-7 now.

For three days I walked around saying wow, that sure is a maxi-semi-flex nib.

Finally :eureka: it dawned on me, it was one of those 'flexi' nibs many talked about and didn't define.

A 'flexi' nib is NOT a Flex nib. It really helps to have a semi-flex nib to make any judgments at all about any nib more flexible.

Regular flex, semi-flex, and 'flexi' all spread their tines only 3X a light down stroke.

A well mashed regular flex will do that, so will a semi-flex with half the pressure of a regular flex.

'Flexi'/maxi-semi-flex requires half that or 1/4th a well mashed regular flex.

FLEX nibs spread their tines 4-5-6 or even 7 X a light down stroke, with half the pressure of a 'flexi' for an Easy Full Flex or 1/8th a mashed regular flex.

Wet Noodle/Superflex 1/16th a regular flex.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle even less.

I just missed a Rupp nib....but it was in the Exact same pen as the last(first and only) one....a third tier pen. Looking close and picky...a third tier pen. Big deal. I do have my eyes open for a certain other third tier pen with a Rupp nib on it....I missed it the last time due to LOM.....

The nib is what counts most....and you got a Rupp.....

Your Clip looks similar to a Merlin pen. Actually your pen looks good enough to be Second Tier.

At one time 1920-s to after the War and some time after; there were 120 pen makers/manufacturers in Germany. Some only put parts together that they ordered from big boys like Osmia, MB, and a few others....others were made for department stores, with their names (or term like Themis) on it. Other small family factories....like Merlin and Cleo also made pens.

I'd put your pen because of the cap jewel in the late '50' and more to the mid '60's. The clip looks like a Merlin.

November 17, 2013

Lucky, lucky...that is a Rupp nib.
Rupp was a nib maker in Heidelberg from 1920's to 1970.
I am judging the flex rate off a One nib sample and a few comments from other lucky Rupp nib owners.

My single Rupp nib is the most flexible of my 13- 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nibs.
A system of measuring I abandoned in it was only for me.
Most of my 'flexi' nibs were F-1, some were markably more flexible. F-1 1/4th.
One was F-1 1/2 my Rupp nib.

Then, I didn't know much other than I had then some 10-15 semi-flex pens...have 26-7 now.
For three days I walked around saying wow, that sure is a maxi-semi-flex nib.
Finally :eureka: it dawned on me, it was one of those 'flexi' nibs many talked about and didn't define.
A 'flexi' nib is NOT a Flex nib. It really helps to have a semi-flex nib to make any judgments at all about any nib more flexible.
Regular flex, semi-flex, and 'flexi' all spread their tines only 3X a light down stroke.
A well mashed regular flex will do that, so will a semi-flex with half the pressure of a regular flex.
'Flexi'/maxi-semi-flex requires half that or 1/4th a well mashed regular flex.

FLEX nibs spread their tines 4-5-6 or even 7 X a light down stroke, with half the pressure of a 'flexi' for an Easy Full Flex or 1/8th a mashed regular flex.
Wet Noodle/Superflex 1/16th a regular flex.
Weak Kneed Wet Noodle even less.

I just missed a Rupp nib....but it was in the Exact same pen as the last(first and only) one....a third tier pen. Looking close and picky...a third tier pen. Big deal. I do have my eyes open for a certain other third tier pen with a Rupp nib on it....I missed it the last time due to LOM.....

The nib is what counts most....and you got a Rupp.....

Your Clip looks similar to a Merlin pen. Actually your pen looks good enough to be Second Tier.

At one time 1920-s to after the War and some time after; there were 120 pen makers/manufacturers in Germany. Some only put parts together that they ordered from big boys like Osmia, MB, and a few others....others were made for department stores, with their names (or term like Themis) on it. Other small family factories....like Merlin and Cleo also made pens.

I'd put your pen because of the cap jewel in the late '50' and more to the mid '60's. The clip looks like a Merlin.

Thanks for all the info!

Sounds like I am the sumgui on this one then. I think most ignored it as they didn't know the brand, but good to know I snagged a bargain.

It is a solid little performer. Not the smoothest nib I have used, and I guess I could smooth it a little, but based on your info, I think I will jsut enjoy it for what it is

November 17, 2013

You have to check to see if the tines are aligned.

One tine is up or down compared to the other....misalignment.

That is 90% of scratchy, 8% is holding the pen like a ball point before the big knuckle of the index finger instead of behind it like a fountain pen.

That only leaves two percent of the nib really needing smoothing.

Do you have a 10-12 or 15 X loupe...it's needed to cure scratchy any way you have it. It's a once in a life time buy, a good one costs @ $30.

Yes, the other thing is you need a light Hand with nibs with some flex, the nib can be bent from over stressing it.

A lighter Hand and better paper has been known to cure scratchy too. Wetter ink.....

One person's scratchy can be another person's tooth.

I've read tooth being described as like writing with a pencil. Many like it that way.

I like it good and smooth....a step under butter smooth.

The pen should lay in your grasp like a featherless baby bird.

If you make bird paste....scratchy can happen.

November 18, 2013

Wow, the writing sample looks beautiful... And that for a £5 pen! This anecdote proves that sometimes price isn't everything

I might take small 'risks' by buying low-priced pens like this too, maybe I will get lucky one day!

November 18, 2013

Lucky, lucky...that is a Rupp nib.
Rupp was a nib maker in Heidelberg from 1920's to 1970.
I am judging the flex rate off a One nib sample and a few comments from other lucky Rupp nib owners.

My single Rupp nib is the most flexible of my 13- 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex nibs.
A system of measuring I abandoned in it was only for me.
Most of my 'flexi' nibs were F-1, some were markably more flexible. F-1 1/4th.
One was F-1 1/2 my Rupp nib.

Then, I didn't know much other than I had then some 10-15 semi-flex pens...have 26-7 now.
For three days I walked around saying wow, that sure is a maxi-semi-flex nib.
Finally :eureka: it dawned on me, it was one of those 'flexi' nibs many talked about and didn't define.
A 'flexi' nib is NOT a Flex nib. It really helps to have a semi-flex nib to make any judgments at all about any nib more flexible.
Regular flex, semi-flex, and 'flexi' all spread their tines only 3X a light down stroke.
A well mashed regular flex will do that, so will a semi-flex with half the pressure of a regular flex.
'Flexi'/maxi-semi-flex requires half that or 1/4th a well mashed regular flex.

FLEX nibs spread their tines 4-5-6 or even 7 X a light down stroke, with half the pressure of a 'flexi' for an Easy Full Flex or 1/8th a mashed regular flex.
Wet Noodle/Superflex 1/16th a regular flex.
Weak Kneed Wet Noodle even less.

I just missed a Rupp nib....but it was in the Exact same pen as the last(first and only) one....a third tier pen. Looking close and picky...a third tier pen. Big deal. I do have my eyes open for a certain other third tier pen with a Rupp nib on it....I missed it the last time due to LOM.....

The nib is what counts most....and you got a Rupp.....

Your Clip looks similar to a Merlin pen. Actually your pen looks good enough to be Second Tier.

At one time 1920-s to after the War and some time after; there were 120 pen makers/manufacturers in Germany. Some only put parts together that they ordered from big boys like Osmia, MB, and a few others....others were made for department stores, with their names (or term like Themis) on it. Other small family factories....like Merlin and Cleo also made pens.

I'd put your pen because of the cap jewel in the late '50' and more to the mid '60's. The clip looks like a Merlin.

I have seen others rate flexibility this way and i have seen others rate flexibility other ways. i personally think rating how easily the tines spread is more important to rating the flexibility of a pen than the ratio of un flexed to fully flexed. a simple writing sample will tell you all you need to know about how wide the tines spread but it will not be able to tell you how much pressure it took to make those lines.

perhaps a better solution would be to have a graph where you show how much the nib can flex in one direction and you show how easily it can flex in the other.

http://mathbits.com/MathBits/StudentResources/GraphPaper/quadone.gif

the only thing that would be counter intuitive about the graph is that you would have to have no pressure be 10 and lots of pressure be zero. it would still be very much a subjective system but i think it would give the user a much clearer idea of exactly what kind of flexibility the nib has

also to the op: congrats on your find!

November 18, 2013

"""" i personally think rating how easily the tines spread is more important to rating the flexibility of a pen than the ratio of un flexed to fully flexed.""""

The reason I don't is you can spring a nib, by making it do Olympic splits; when it is not made to do so.

Many folks don't know the flex stages...and push a nib too hard....looking for tine spread....with out knowing ease or hardness.

If some one with too little experience jumps right into a 'flexi' 3 X nib like a 400NN, they could think it one of those 'Flex' nibs and try to spread it 6 X....

Then it's off to the nibmeister in hopes the nib will be 94% of what it once was.

One should know the flex range of the pen one buys..... like a 140 is semi-flex, a 400NN a flexi or a Waterman ripple should be a Flex pen. Any idiot can press a nib so it looks so wide to sell it, that don't mean it's safe to flex it that much.

There is progressive flexibility from one flex set to the next.

I took my time and worked my way up the flex chain. My Hand had time to get lighter, and lighter.

Semi-flex can be used by the Ham Fisted.

'Flexi' by the Slightly Ham Fisted.

Real Flex nibs need a Light Hand. It needs knowledge of how far does the nib want to go....not how far can it go. Richard Binder's article on how easy it is to spring a nib was a huge warning to me. A nib can go a few times, then it goes to the well once to much.

When ready one can buy a nib that has the ease and the width and is 'made' to do Olympic Splits.

In a way this is 100% correct.

"""" i personally think rating how easily the tines spread is more important to rating the flexibility of a pen than the ratio of un flexed to fully flexed.""""

Those who are penmen are more worried about snap back than width of tine spread, the ease of the nib, more than how wide. Folk like Micky say too many try to make only fat letters, when it's the skinniness of the line makes the writing.

I'm quite happy to know my Pelikan 100 only spreads 4 X...it does it so nice at Easy Full Flex. I had enough experience to know the nib didn't want to spread 5X. I have other pens that do 5X.

There are nibs that spread wide 6-7 X.

There are nibs that don't spread that wide but do it easy. I'm a bit Noodle deficient...in fountain pens.

I have some dip pen nibs that spread so wide so easy...the standard fountain pen Wet Noodle looks like a nail.

Don't know if there is an ink that one can hold a 10X spread.

In my reading I've come across description of two stage flex.That was written by some one with not only enough wet noodles but had learned to write good enough to use them.

Take care with your nibs...don't press them in to trying to be more than they are. Work your way up the flex chain, and develop a lighter Hand...before having to send the sprung nib off to be nearly-fixed.$$$$

Edited November 18, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

November 19, 2013

You have to check to see if the tines are aligned.
One tine is up or down compared to the other....misalignment.

That is 90% of scratchy, 8% is holding the pen like a ball point before the big knuckle of the index finger instead of behind it like a fountain pen.
That only leaves two percent of the nib really needing smoothing.

Do you have a 10-12 or 15 X loupe...it's needed to cure scratchy any way you have it. It's a once in a life time buy, a good one costs @ $30.

Yes, the other thing is you need a light Hand with nibs with some flex, the nib can be bent from over stressing it.
A lighter Hand and better paper has been known to cure scratchy too. Wetter ink.....

One person's scratchy can be another person's tooth.
I've read tooth being described as like writing with a pencil. Many like it that way.
I like it good and smooth....a step under butter smooth.

The pen should lay in your grasp like a featherless baby bird.
If you make bird paste....scratchy can happen.

Yes I have a loupe and checked the tines, thats the first thing I did, even before cleaning the pen.

I checked the feed and nib once clean to see how it was set up, and then inked it.

I tend to prefer butter smooth nibs, and it only scratches in one direction, if it was a "normal" nib i would smooth it, but will keep it as it is to see if it annoys me.

Some might not notice the scratch so much, but I a a tinkerer, so pretty much every nib I own has had a little work until it is as perfect as I can make it.

That's the fun part

Ren