Carene: Stub Compared With Oblique Broad.

[checkrail]

Hi All.

Most of the pens I have got since FPN got me started are second hand ones with interesting nibs, but I have come to realise that I more readily make new ones everyday carriers. I am interested in the Carene with either a stub or oblique broad and wonder how the edge and line compare. I am equally happy with a straight or angled tip; so that is not an issue. All experience is helpful.

Kindest regards,

Timothy

[Ghost Plane]

The stubs are wonderful. They feel between the M & B nibs, nicely wet & pretty much smooth - just a hint of tooth from slightly sharper corners than some brands. Very fast writers if you write a lot. I adore them. Haven't managed to get my hands on an OB yet. PenSellerFromFrance on Amazon & Pilotfish on eBay are sources. Bought in the past from PenSeller when he was still on eBay. Good seller, no affiliation.

[cougarking]

Pls show writing samples if you can!

[esteroids]

I haven't yet tried an OB Carene. I do have a broad and a stub to compare. I stubbed the broad and it's a slightly wider tip than the ST.

 

I've found this to be true on all of the modern gold nibs I have. The widest tip - easiest to make italic and most line variation - is the OB. Second widest is the L, and the ST a little narrower. An OB on my Man is about 1.2 mm, the L about 1 mm and ST about .9 mm. My Carene nibs are a little smaller, Preface/Charleston a bit smaller yet. My guess is that they make the stub from a finished broad, and lose a bit in the regrind.

 

I've seen people refer to the Waterman L as a BB; that's probably very accurate.

At the same time, these are only my observations. And I do know that these nibs display their hand made quality by being inconsistent. I sold along a Man 2 stub that was more like a medium, and I have a broad I'll never let go because it's about 1.3 mm.

 

My suggestion is to look at the width of the tipping, and not worry too much about the letters stamped underneath. Don't be surprised if you have to do some grinding to get what you want.

 

One more observation: I've had the best luck with consistent flow and good starting on these paintbrushes with a pretty wet setup. But this also means that these poor little converters don't have the capacity for a lot of use.

 

Have fun!

[checkrail]

Many thanks for replies so far. For the opinion from the horse's mouth I have now e-mailed Newell Rubbermaid at Fradley Park, but I imagine they may need to refer the question to the factory for an authoritative answer.

Kindest regards

Timothy

[Left FPN]

Many thanks for replies so far. For the opinion from the horse's mouth I have now e-mailed Newell Rubbermaid at Fradley Park, but I imagine they may need to refer the question to the factory for an authoritative answer.

Kindest regards

Timothy

If you asked for writing samples you may have a long wait...longer than here even. If not, what did you ask.

[checkrail]

I didn't suggest writing samples, as I thought that would be pushing my luck, though I am an optimist! I just implied a description in words, but I'm not holding my breath.

Regards

Timothy

[Left FPN]

I am not sure about this answer but enquire what hand are you. I ask because looking at the samples provided in most catalogues the OB appears bevelled for right hand use.

 

OB is shown to provide a very broad up/down stroke (possibly 1.5x that of the Stub) and a thin horizontal stroke very slightly thinner than that of the stub. Strangely though the fine oblique (OF) is portrayed as providing a slightly narrower up/down stroke, almost stub, yet the sample writing is indistinguishable (IME) from that of the OB.

 

I have recently swapped out a medium for a stub and to be honest, I prefer the mediums for day to day notes. This said the sub is a very nice tool to have in ones box.

 

If I were honest and you I would have one of each.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Force

[pajaro]

Do they make a reverse oblique? Left handed, I have recently found these nibs to be very nice, where a regular oblique is mind numbing for me.

[Left FPN]

Do they make a reverse oblique? Left handed, I have recently found these nibs to be very nice, where a regular oblique is mind numbing for me.

Parker appear to cater for this but not Waterman.....yet I thought Waterman owned Parker. Maybe a question for CS at Fradley Park.

[checkrail]

Thank you, Force. This is really useful. I am right-handed and apart from a few flexes, too fiddly for ordinary work, I pretty well exclusively use italics and stubs, either straight or oblique, these days. I had originally wondered if the oblique, in what I gather is the case with some makes these days might not be italic. I suspect strongly that the Carene which arrived this morning and is now awaiting a trip for a nib swap will shortly be joined by a sibling!

Regards

Timothy

I am not sure about this answer but enquire what hand are you. I ask because looking at the samples provided in most catalogues the OB appears bevelled for right hand use.

 

OB is shown to provide a very broad up/down stroke (possibly 1.5x that of the Stub) and a thin horizontal stroke very slightly thinner than that of the stub. Strangely though the fine oblique (OF) is portrayed as providing a slightly narrower up/down stroke, almost stub, yet the sample writing is indistinguishable (IME) from that of the OB.

 

I have recently swapped out a medium for a stub and to be honest, I prefer the mediums for day to day notes. This said the sub is a very nice tool to have in ones box.

 

If I were honest and you I would have one of each.

[Mickey]

I am not sure about this answer but enquire what hand are you. I ask because looking at the samples provided in most catalogues the OB appears bevelled for right hand use.

 

OB is shown to provide a very broad up/down stroke (possibly 1.5x that of the Stub) and a thin horizontal stroke very slightly thinner than that of the stub. Strangely though the fine oblique (OF) is portrayed as providing a slightly narrower up/down stroke, almost stub, yet the sample writing is indistinguishable (IME) from that of the OB.

 

I have recently swapped out a medium for a stub and to be honest, I prefer the mediums for day to day notes. This said the sub is a very nice tool to have in ones box.

 

If I were honest and you I would have one of each.

An OB (left-oblique) should, compared to a stub or italic nib, show thinner downstrokes and broader horizontals. The thinnest strokes (15 degree L-OB) would be on the +30 degree axis (60 degrees above horizontal), and the thickest strokes on -60 degrees. A stub would show them at +45 and -45 degrees.

 

Added: A right oblique would show thinnest strokes at +60 degree and broadest at -30. Consequently, it will show broader downstrokes and thinner horizontals.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Mickey

[Left FPN]

An OB (left-oblique) should, compared to a stub or italic nib, show thinner downstrokes and broader horizontals. The thinnest strokes (15 degree L-OB) would be on the +30 degree axis (60 degrees above horizontal), and the thickest strokes on -60 degrees. A stub would show them at +45 and -45 degrees.

 

Added: A right oblique would show thinnest strokes at +60 degree and broadest at -30. Consequently, it will show broader downstrokes and thinner horizontals.

 

 

An OB (left-oblique) should, compared to a stub or italic nib, show thinner downstrokes and broader horizontals. The thinnest strokes (15 degree L-OB) would be on the +30 degree axis (60 degrees above horizontal), and the thickest strokes on -60 degrees. A stub would show them at +45 and -45 degrees.

 

Added: A right oblique would show thinnest strokes at +60 degree and broadest at -30. Consequently, it will show broader downstrokes and thinner horizontals.

[Mickey]

 

 

There's a question here? Does it help is I tell you 0 degrees is vertical?

Edited November 2, 2013 by Mickey

[esteroids]

This description is what I observe. I've used mostly italic since I was a kid, and my fine line is at about 45 degrees. A left footed (for some reason I say footed) oblique puts the fine line close to vertical, right footed close to horizontal.

 

Modern Watermans seem to have more angle on their obliques than most, exaggerating the difference.

I do appreciate the way Waterman puts a lot of tipping material on their obliques, allowing for plenty of adjustment.

[manolo]

An OB (left-oblique) should, compared to a stub or italic nib, show thinner downstrokes and broader horizontals. The thinnest strokes (15 degree L-OB) would be on the +30 degree axis (60 degrees above horizontal), and the thickest strokes on -60 degrees. A stub would show them at +45 and -45 degrees.

 

Added: A right oblique would show thinnest strokes at +60 degree and broadest at -30. Consequently, it will show broader downstrokes and thinner horizontals.

Agreed, except that about a stub, that is not my experience.

If it helps, I am using these days left obliques in a Man 100 and an Exception, and I find them easy to use and giving a very nice line, quite expressive. I have no experience with those fitted on the Carene, that is something I should solve.

[Mickey]

Agreed, except that about a stub, that is not my experience.

If it helps, I am using these days left obliques in a Man 100 and an Exception, and I find them easy to use and giving a very nice line, quite expressive. I have no experience with those fitted on the Carene, that is something I should solve.

Stubs are more tolerant of poor pen technique than italics, but the geometry is exactly the same, other than the corners being slightly more relieved. (Some stubs - literally stubbed nibs - are even more tolerant, but the orientation of the edge is exactly the same as an 'italic' nib: at right angles to the slit.)

[checkrail]

Do they make a reverse oblique? Left handed, I have recently found these nibs to be very nice, where a regular oblique is mind numbing for me.

I have just had an e-mail back from SAS giving a list of Carene nib sizes available, a bit different in some respects from what I had believed to be the case: Extra Fine, Fine, Medium, Broad, Medium Oblique, Medium Reverse Oblique, Medium Italic and Broad Italic.

They also included a writing samples file, though I have not been able to get it to open yet

[Left FPN]

Are they calling the Stub Medium Italic, if so what's the Broad Italic.

[checkrail]

Don't know, I'm afraid. Just quoted the descriptions as in the e-mail. I was a bit surprised.