Why A Parker 51?

[sandy101]

Thank you all for the replies.

 

To summarise;

 

The P51 is a design classic. By owning and using one, an owner can "connect" with users and events in the c20th.

 

Many pens will "just work" and continue to do so for many years.

 

However, some of these pens can come with maintenance issues - so unless one is keen on a "project" or wants to pay more for a repair/restoration, you have to choose the carefully.

 

I'm not convinced that I need to buy one (just yet), having found some modern pens that "just work" for me.

 

However, the enthusiasm for the P51 on these forums, one has to ask why Parker stopped making them. Was it simply that cartridge pens came to rule the roost, or was it the increased machination of pen manufacture which meant the P51 became too expensive to manufacture.

[Blade Runner]

A pen that I found equal to the 51 and dare I say even better, is the Aurora 88P. Partially hooded, but with much more nib exposed, so nib orientation is much easier and it is a piston filler with huge ink capacity.

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

The last Parker "51" that Parker made in the early 2000's was a bit of a disaster in its own way. So was the 100. Both pens had their issues. I wonder why Parker was unable to do what they were able to do in the past with these new pens. In my opinion, current Parker quality isn't anywhere as good as it used to be.

 

Dillon

[Inkysloth]

However, the enthusiasm for the P51 on these forums, one has to ask why Parker stopped making them. Was it simply that cartridge pens came to rule the roost, or was it the increased machination of pen manufacture which meant the P51 became too expensive to manufacture.

 

Why does any company stop making something that's been successful - in part, to sell *new* things. From our 50 year ahead vantage point we can look back and say "that's a design classic", but in 1960, the Parker 51 was a 20 year old pen - not forward looking any more, just... tired, familiar, boring.

[Blade Runner]

 

However, the enthusiasm for the P51 on these forums, one has to ask why Parker stopped making them.

They killed the gold egg laying goose!

 

Parker did not adapt fast enough in the age of ballpoints and position fountain pens in the luxury niche market, something that eventually happened in Europe and helped fountain pen manufacturers to survive and make a profit. It is a shame that Parker couldn't preserve the 51 just as MB preserved the Meisterstuck 149 and Aurora preserved the 88.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Blade Runner

[Florida Blue]

Hi,

 

The last Parker "51" that Parker made in the early 2000's was a bit of a disaster in its own way. So was the 100. Both pens had their issues. I wonder why Parker was unable to do what they were able to do in the past with these new pens. In my opinion, current Parker quality isn't anywhere as good as it used to be.

 

Dillon

I've wondered that as well. Both the 100 and 51 LE were a flop.

 

I think the issue is that they were modern interpretations of a classic, vintage pen. Anything short of the exact same thing was going to be a disappointment to anyone who loved the original.

 

They were C/C fill and featured an open nib and standard feed over a shell rather than a real tubular nib and collector. To be fair, the design was very similar to the original 21s in the 1950s, but that was an economy pen and the 100 and 51 LE were luxury models.

 

A lot of people were put off by the 100's pretty modern and somewhat avant grade design, which is funny since the same could have been said of the 51 in the 1940s. Plus, it was an all metal pen with a metal section. The 51 LE had issues with plastic cracking.

 

I wonder if Parker could make an exact replica of a 51 in 2013? Would people even buy it?

 

I can guarantee it would sell for a lot more than the price of a vintage model. Would FP users be willing to pay $300 or $400 for an exact replica of a pen they can buy restored in the FPN classifieds section for $75 to $100?

 

I think it would be great if Parker could come out with a new 51. One that embodied the spirit of the original, but is as different and bold as the original.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Florida Blue

[akustyk]

They killed the gold egg laying goose!

 

Parker did not adapt fast enough in the age of ballpoints and position fountain pens in the luxury niche market, something that eventually happened in Europe and helped fountain pen manufacturers to survive and make a profit. It is a shame that Parker couldn't preserve the 51 just as MB preserved the Meisterstuck 149 and Aurora preserved the 88.

 

Yes, I completely agree. What's interesting to me is that the P51 writes in a way that's similar to a ballpoint. Yes, it's a fountain pen, but the small, rigid, hooded nib allows for a similar writing technique and versatility to that of a ballpoint.

 

Parker, Sheaffer, and Waterman, all failed to keep their star products in the line-up, which is a terrible shame. How cool would it be to have a Snorkel (or Touchdown), P51, and a Waterman 52 still available. Even if they cost a premium, I am sure people would buy them, just like they still buy the M800 and the 149 - not in huge numbers, but enough to make them viable. But, obviously, others (more knowledgeable than me) decided otherwise. Sad.

[Blade Runner]

^ American industry is alway keen for the next thing. Not always the right tact! If Parker were still making the 51 aerometric fountain pen, including those with precious metal caps and trim, different colors, special editions I'd still be buying them with pride even with the availability of cheaper vintage 51s. Unfortunately most Parker fountain pen discussion and enthusiasm today is about pens that are no longer made. Very sad.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Blade Runner

[Florida Blue]

 

How cool would it be to have a Snorkel (or Touchdown), P51, and a Waterman 52 still available.

 

They are. There are probably thousands for sale at the moment in a huge price range. That's why I don't think people would realistically pay today's prices for a pen when they can have an original for much less. A Sheaffer Legacy Heritage retails for around $400. Would people pay $400 or $500 for a Snorkel when you can get a restored one for $100? I know Blade Runner wrote that, but I still don't think many would.

 

^ American industry is alway keen for the next thing. Not always the right tact! If Parker were still making the 51 aerometric fountain pen, including those with precious metal caps and trim, different colors, special editions I'd still be buying them with pride even with the availability of cheaper vintage 51s. Unfortunately most Parker fountain pen discussion and enthusiasm today is about pens that are no longer made. Very sad.

 

 

Exactly. It was a drive for the next thing that produced the 51 in the first place. If Parker was so sentimental then they would still be making only Lucky Curve pens.

 

I think if Parker wants to get a new generation of FP users excited then they need to come out with something new, fresh and innovative rather then to rest upon their laurels.

 

I love my 51s, but I would love to see Parker or any other company try to make something just as innovative rather than the same thing.

[Blade Runner]

 

They are. There are probably thousands for sale at the moment in a huge price range. That's why I don't think people would realistically pay today's prices for a pen when they can have an original for much less. A Sheaffer Legacy Heritage retails for around $400. Would people pay $400 or $500 for a Snorkel when you can get a restored one for $100? I know Blade Runner wrote that, but I still don't think many would.

 

 

Exactly. It was a drive for the next thing that produced the 51 in the first place. If Parker was so sentimental then they would still be making only Lucky Curve pens.

 

I think if Parker wants to get a new generation of FP users excited then they need to come out with something new, fresh and innovative rather then to rest upon their laurels.

 

I love my 51s, but I would love to see Parker or any other company try to make something just as innovative rather than the same thing.

Parker could come out with new models, but have kept the legendary model that was the 51. MB did exactly that. They kept the Meisterstuck line pretty much unchanged over the decades (their sacred cow) and added new lines and variations on the Meisterstuck line.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Blade Runner

[TLab3000]

The 51... of all the fountain pens I have, it's the closest thing to a felt pen. It feels like a bad excuse to use a fountain pen, I'm sorry. I understand why it was so popular back then, but nowadays, there's just no need for something like this, anymore.

 

I think it would still sell and production costs wouldn't be too steep. So I don't understand why they don't do it anymore. Well, maybe it just doesn't fit into their portfolio. And frankly, it feels rather cheap and there are just too many pens that are similar in a way or two. Back in the 40's, it must have been a fantastic pen: light, plasticky, easy to use. Nowadays, pretty much every ball point has these features. We value heavy things, because heavy equals good build quality. (There were camera manufacturers that put lead weights into the camera bodies to make them feel more valuable.) Plastic is evil. A 51 is more difficult to use than a Pilot G2.

So I actually respect Parker for not producing the 51 anymore just to make money (unless I'm wrong and it really wouldn't sell). And I think it's the right decision. Them still being around is proof enough. And there are still enough 51s available for those who are interested.

 

I've used a 51 for the last couple of days and this was what's been going through my head while writing with it. I'm glad I can say these things, here. If you think I'm just trolling, please ignore me. Thanks.

 

One more thing: I'm still amazed about how much ink the 51 Vacumatic stores (2.2ml, I made a video about this). That's a surprising advantage.

Edited November 5, 2013 by TLab3000

[icevic]

Parker still makes the jotter, which came out around the same time as the 51.

 

The difference is that the Jotter still makes sense in the modern world while the 51 doesn't. Fountain pens have become a niche hobby, and their maintenance and care a chore, while the Jotter is as easy to use and maintain as it ever was.

 

The 51 was never meant to be a collector piece for hobbyists. It was meant to be used and once it stopped being a daily writing instrument it lost its purpose.

 

The manufacturing process for mass production is very different from the manufacturing process for niche production: that's why the pens of the past that were mass produced cannot be easily replicated today without the sales volume to realize the investment in tooling and production.

 

That's why TWSBI is so fascinating, they offer us a glimmer of the past and a glance at the future, all at the same time.

[Florida Blue]

Parker could come out with new models, but have kept the legendary model that was the 51. MB did exactly that. They kept the Meisterstuck line pretty much unchanged over the decades (their sacred cow) and added new lines and variations on the Meisterstuck line.

I'll put on my fantasy hat too

 

Yes, Parker could have done that and I'm sure any 51 LE would be pretty darn cool looking, but what about new pens. I want to see different and exciting new models!

 

I like the Meisterstuck pens. I have a 144 and I would really like a 146 one day, but MB could do so much more. Yes, they have the Boheme (do they still make that?) and the Starwaker is pretty cool, but they place so much emphasis on those Meisterstuck pens. Pelikan is the same way with their Souveran pens. I'd like to see MB or Pelikan come out with some new really innovate lines of pens rather than different versions of the same pens they have been making for 60+ years.

 

However, I respect your love of the classic models. They are great, which is why I love mine too.

[Blade Runner]

Actually MB issues a variety of new pens every year, including the Writers series, Patron of Arts, Music and other donation series, other commemorative lines, and so on. But they always keep the Meisterstuck line unchanged, because it is a very successful model, and I think that helps to support the company's image and tradition.

[Dillo]

I've wondered that as well. Both the 100 and 51 LE were a flop.

 

I think the issue is that they were modern interpretations of a classic, vintage pen. Anything short of the exact same thing was going to be a disappointment to anyone who loved the original.

 

They were C/C fill and featured an open nib and standard feed over a shell rather than a real tubular nib and collector. To be fair, the design was very similar to the original 21s in the 1950s, but that was an economy pen and the 100 and 51 LE were luxury models.

 

A lot of people were put off by the 100's pretty modern and somewhat avant grade design, which is funny since the same could have been said of the 51 in the 1940s. Plus, it was an all metal pen with a metal section. The 51 LE had issues with plastic cracking.

 

I wonder if Parker could make an exact replica of a 51 in 2013? Would people even buy it?

 

I can guarantee it would sell for a lot more than the price of a vintage model. Would FP users be willing to pay $300 or $400 for an exact replica of a pen they can buy restored in the FPN classifieds section for $75 to $100?

 

I think it would be great if Parker could come out with a new 51. One that embodied the spirit of the original, but is as different and bold as the original.

 

I wouldn't say that they had an open nib and regular feed under the hood. The 100 for instance had a Parker 45 derived system with a collector in the hood and a small Parker 45 like nib and feed that were pushed into the front of the section. Still, you are certainly correct that they weren't the same in writing performance or design. That is not to mention that the 45 often had better performance than the 100 did though it was a much cheaper pen.

 

I still wonder about a modern "51" like the original. Certainly with modern technology, it's feasible, but I wonder if anyone would like to even take the risk. I think Parker cut a lot of corners on the 100 and 51 LE, and that's what ultimately hurt them. I have seen very very few Parker 51 LE pens, but I've seen a lot more Parker 100 pens.

 

Dillon

[Garageboy]

It writes well, it looks cool, in a 1950s modern way, it's reliable, and there's a gazillion variants

I could spend the next decade hunting all the colors and caps

 

To me, it's the Tri Five Chevies of pens

[hermanlab]

I think nostalgic sentimentality is what makes them overpriced and keeps them hugely popular.

I think its a very nice design and very well-designed, properly engineered pen that as very advanced for its time. But then you take the cap off, expecting to be impressed. And you are immediately disappointed with the ugly little knob of a nib - much like opening the hood of a Cadillac to find someone had replaced the V8 with some little 4 cylinder Toyota engine.

 

Still, they were and remain awesome writers in my opinion - less quirk than most of its vintage, not so prone to leaking and smudging, and very forgiving to the hands of those who are insensitive to the delicate nature of fountain pens.

 

I still use one as a daily writer from time to time - not my first choice, but definitely still a pleasure to use and to look at.

[zap210]

The 51 still gets so much press time because of one imortant point; it works better than almost any other pen to date, and it will continue to work for decades until it needs a new nib or sac. An argument can be made that the Aurora 88P's function better, but they will blot occasionally and their original piston design will leak after a time. The 51's sacs are much longer lasting, and 51's don't blot. The consumer market has changed dramatically in my lifetime, moving from functional elegance to visually exciting but still reasonably functional. Manifold nibs are now shunned in favor of hyper-flexible exposed nibs with platings and engravings. Pens are now functional works of art, like women's shoes. For occasional use, but you would not run a marathon or hike the Appalachian trail in them. You would get something made for that purpose. The 51 was designed to write, period.

[apkayle]

My experience with the Parker 51 isn't so amazing that I want to rate it as a nicer or more practical pen than most of my other standard firm-nibbed pens.

 

Looking back on my usage of the 51 in 2013, I usually reached for a 51 when I needed a pen that wouldn't draw attention or when I wanted to write a lot without being distracted by the aesthetics of the typical open-nibbed fountain pen. They're fantastic "workhorse" pens in the sense that you get the smoothness of a fountain pen with minimal decorative detailing. Past those qualities, I cannot see anything special about them other than their history.

[psfred]

The Parker "51" is probably the most reliable pen out the, especially the Aerometrics. Very few problems, never clog, hold large amounts of ink (an important thing when you use one all day). Easy to hold, although people with small hands may want the Demi rather than a standard one.

 

Think about it, they sold one to every fourth person in the US between 1941 and 1972. Gotta be something right about that.

 

However, they are first and foremost tools. They are not intended for decoration, although the satin cap and celluloid jewel is nice. No flash, no glamor, just putting ink on the page. They were most popular before ball points were usable (mid 1950s in the US) and unless actively abused will continue to write forever. Superb writing instruments, and meant to be used daily and not distract from the work.

 

Sheaffer Triumph Snorkels write better as far as I'm concerned, I like the line the produce a bit better (and I've acquired some nearly unused Parker "51"s so it's not nib wear). Smoother, too, and I like the shape and size a bit better. Not as robust, by far, and fiddly to fill sometimes.

 

The value of a "51" is not the pizzaz or the show or the glitz, it's the workmanship and usability. Write with one for a while and you may very well find one in your pocket all the time -- happened to me.

 

Note that you CAN indeed buy a brand new one, not from Parker but from Ariel Kulock who makes them in Argentina using original (abandoned) Parker equipment. He sells plain ones, fancy plastic ones, clear ones, and plain and fancy caps, plus assorted other Parker parts for other pens. Pretty reasonable too, although in some cases you need to find a nib.

 

"51"s are NOT molded except for the Mark IIIs, they are machined from solid acrylic rod. This makes them pretty expensive to make and sales fell off through the 60's in favor of the 61 and 75, both newer designs. Both are fine pens, but the 61 can be cranky if not used daily and the 75 was always a very expensive pen, originally only available in silver metal.

 

I don't use fountain pens because I like the look (or the ink mess or the occasional dribble), but because I loathe writing with ball points or pencils. Felt tips are nasty and roller balls tolerable, but some time back I decided to quite torturing myself and get a good fountain pen or three (or hundreds). Never going back, and the "51"is one of the best.

 

Peter