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Photo

Mb 1912 - Exsessive Surface Wear Around Cap

1912 wear

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115 replies to this topic

#41 uniquesolutions

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:30

Hi all, thanks for keeping us all updated with this "problem". I have been following this thread because I have a 1912 and love it. I don't post any of my MB pens so hopefully will not experience the problems that have been identified in this thread. Good result for uniquesolutions. Great customer service from the store. Was it a MB boutique?

Hi no it was no MB-Boutique it is an independent shop who is offering a great variety of different brands of pens. I appreciate their great service. And if MB has a solution for its problem with the 1912 I will get one again because the clear design of that pen is great.



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#42 fountainbel

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 19:30

Looks the cap entry is slightly is too narrow and rubbing against the barrel at the end of the screw-on operation.

Although I expect MB provided a "theoretical" gap between the cap bore and the barrel, a slight backlash on the cap/barrel threads could result in the experienced problems.

Looks the cap has a stepped bore and rubbing occurs at the diameter transition spot, is this right?

 

When this is the case making a 30° chamfered conical transition at the diameter step looks a possible solution to me.

Francis



#43 Bigeddie

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 19:28

Hi folks,

 

I have been slow on the update. The pen came back to me about a month after it went off. I received the following email on it's return to the boutique:

 

I do hope that the following information regarding your Heritage 1912 fountain pen is clarification of its performance and future enjoyment
With the MONTBLANC heritage 1912 fountain pen, you have acquired a special writing that represents an exceptional symbiosis of tradition and innovation. Based on a historical model, manufactured by Montblanc 100 years ago, we have developed a completely new writing instrument using current technology, which combines in a unique way MONTBLANC values such as craftsmanship, durability, quality and perfection.
Of course we would like you to be always satisfied with your Montblanc Heritage, and we share your expectation for a  flawless look and the proper functioning of  MONTBLANC writing. Finally, our production has always used technology and precision engineering and high-quality materials.
Despite the high quality, it cannot be avoided that regular use leaves traces as occurred in your writing instrument. It is wear that is mainly caused by dust and dirt particles on the inner surface of the cap during the opening and closing of the cap. How quickly and wear occurs, depends on the manner and intensity of use.
In contrast to damages that are due to material or manufacturing defects, wear is not included in the warranty. We hope that we could answer your questions and send back your heritage fountain pen as received.
On arrival back in to the boutique you will be contacted as a matter of urgency so you are able to resume using your Heritage 1912.
Kind regards
 
So, as expected. I would dispute that the wear is caused by 'dust and dirt particles' - it seems to be caused by the material that the internal cap 'buffer' is made of itself. I'm a little miffed, someone pointed out that they had the same problem with a 75 years of passion 149 and I can understand on a pen of 15 years, but not so on a pen four weeks out of the box. Anyway, I will enjoy it :) it doesn't affect performance, it's just a little annoying. 

For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love. -Carl Sagan

#44 meiers

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 20:57

I completely agree with your comment.
The mark is caused by a design flaw.

Nonetheless, the nib is amazing. That's all that matters.

My only hope is that there won't be any mechanical issues.


Edited by meiers, 02 December 2013 - 02:44.


#45 Paul80

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 22:25

Does this mean that in a few months time there will be a flood of 1912 pens on eBay at a knock down price because of all the excessive barrel wear. I hope so, I couldn't afford one otherwise ;)

Paul

#46 meiers

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 23:52

Good luck.
I am keeping mine. I love my pens a little scratched up and battle-worn.

#47 CS388

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 00:11

 

Good luck.
I am keeping mine. I love my pens a little scratched up and battle-worn.

 

I'm with you on this, Matt. My own pens look like they've been the full ten rounds!

But, on a matter of principle, this issue with a new pen grates with me.

Especially from a company who usually take such pride and care in the appearance of their pens.

 

Thanks for the update, Bigeddie.

They've obviously taken the time to think and respond, but it's a most unsatisfactory answer. Montblanc missing the point.

I prefered fountainbel's response (and his potential solution)

 

Good luck.



#48 meiers

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 02:46

 

 

... on a matter of principle, this issue with a new pen grates with me.

Especially from a company who usually take such pride and care in the appearance of their pens.

 

Yes!!!



#49 Dr. Eriko

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:00

It is not my intention to start a debate, but I have a pen made ​​circa 1950, has always been used posted, for more than 40 years, and  still do not detect traces of scratches caused by dust, dirt particles, or the cap when posted.
Probably the design is different, and probably because is made of plastic.
That pen is very cheap, and do not worth to mention it in this forum.

Best regards.


Please excuse my poor english, but it is not my mothern language and maybe it is wrong my grammar. Any Suggestions are welcome.

#50 Paul80

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:10

It is obvious from the reply from Montblanc that they know they have a problem and are supplying a legal department reply to deny responsibility.

Clearly its a design issue but would require a world wide recal to fix the problem, and they are not willing to spend that amount of money on keeping their reputation in tacked. Shame I know from a brand as quality driven as Montblanc like to tell us they are.

Perhapse once they start getting many more complaints they will change their mind, write to them and tell them you do not accept they reply and tell them you will not buy any more of their products as their quality control is now below what you are willing to accept. And tell them you will be telling everyone you know about how poor their products have become. Then await their proposed solution, and if none is given vote with your money and buy your next pen from someone else and then tell them someone else is now getting your money.

Vote with your money.

Paul

#51 uniquesolutions

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 11:12

Hi Paul

 

So did I - my shop offered me to take the 1912 back and I echanged it to a Pelikan 1005m demonstrator. Till know I realy liked MB as a brand. But I changed my mind. In case of an error you can show your competences. And you are absolutly right MB should call back their pens for fixing the constructional problem.



#52 Paul80

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 15:55

The will thing is, if I understand the problem correctly, all they have to do is make the inside diameter of the cap slightly larger so it does not come into contact with the barrel and then replace damaged barrels and fit the new cap for anyone who reports a problem, not everyone will have the problem as there are tolerances involved so those made to the top end of the tolerance will probably not have the problem but those made to the lower end will. A slight change to the cap would cost them not very much, the damage done to their reputation for doing nothing will cost them a lot more.

Did no one learn from the Ford Pinto fiasco.

At least it didn't cost anyone their life, unlike with the Pinto.

Paul

#53 thott

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 17:12

Honestly, the Hertitage was on my wish list.

But when I read the sensitivity for circular scratches arrount the cap, 

I changed to the Boheme Marron. And I am very happy with it.

 

I follow this topic long time.

My two cent worth, it is quite a complex topic MB has to solve. 

And due to the highly shiny polished large surface of the barrel,  every scratch will be visible.

 

 

Only to increase a little bit the diameter of the cap end will not help.

Due to the distance between thread and cap end the deflection caused by the tread clearance

seems to be quite big and therefore the cap end touches the barrel.

Furthermore, you will not avoid that the cap end touches the barrel until the thread of the

cap catches the first turn of the barrel thread during you turn the complete cap.

 

You have to move with the cap all the way down the barrel until the cap thread reaches the

barrel thread.

This may be create with time longitudinal scratches.

 

Most people say it is only a fine writing tool for daily usage and this will inevitably happen.

Otherwise it should be locked in a glass cabinat without touching it :-)

 

But frankly speaking, it would be definitly bother me!

 

Greetings

Thomas

 

 

 

 

 

 



#54 fountainbel

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 19:33

Hi Thomas,

Although I fully understand your arguments, i remain convinced the radial rubbing scratches problem can be solved.

I never had such a pen in hand, so i might be wrong...

As I mentioned earlier I expect the cap bore is made with a stepped bore : a larger entry bore transferring to a smaller bore 12-15mm deep in the cap.

Can one of the owners please confirm if the cap effectively features such a stepped bore??

The  (sharp ?) edge at this diameter transfer triggers "line"rubbing - hence scratching - problem in my opinion.

Since screwing the cap on takes 3-4 mm axial sliding of the cap over the barrel, this results in a "scratching" band approximately the length of the sliding/screwing displacement.

The circumferential scratches will also become gradually deeper during the screw-up operation, since the barrel gradually enlarges in diameter

Making this diameter transfer smoother and more progressive with a conical transfer of 30° would surely be effective.

Hope this makes sense...

Montblanc should surely attack this problem.

Francis

 

PS: The cap bore on the old Montblanc safeties had the same conicity as the mating barrel, no diameter transfers…….

 

 Only to increase a little bit the diameter of the cap end will not help.

Due to the distance between thread and cap end the deflection caused by the tread clearance

seems to be quite big and therefore the cap end touches the barrel.

Furthermore, you will not avoid that the cap end touches the barrel until the thread of the

cap catches the first turn of the barrel thread during you turn the complete cap.

 

You have to move with the cap all the way down the barrel until the cap thread reaches the

barrel thread.

This may be create with time longitudinal scratches.

 

 

Greetings

Thomas

 

 

 

 

 

 



#55 thott

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 09:25

First of all, I do not have a Heritage.

I had it in hand and wrote some words, but I do not own one.

My opinion is only based on observations.

 

For me the main problem is the position of the cap/barrel thread

and the distance to the cap end.

 

E.g. at the MB Boheme:

The thread is directly at the cap end. Before the cap comes close

to the barrel it is centered by the cap/barrel thread.

Furthermore the cap stops exactly at the end of the barrel thread.

Due to this, it will never  touch the barrel.

 

1-X3.jpg

2-X3.jpg

3-X3.jpg

 

 

The Heritage situation is completly different.

 

4-S.jpg

 

Here you have to slip the cap over the barrel, free of any guidance (I think so) ,

small clearance between cap and barrel and turn it until the cap is catched by

the barrel thread.

 

During this phase  you will  touch inevitably the barrel. And when the cap is centered

by the tread, it is on the wrong position centered.

Tread clearance, distance to cap end will do the rest :-(

 

Even if you increase the cap inner diameter, during slip over and turning, it will touch the barrel

due to missing guidance.

 

My two cents worth.........

 

Greeting

Thomas

 

 

 

 



#56 fountainbel

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:59

Hi Thomas,

Note we are talking about radial scratches generated during the 3-5 mm screw-up operation, as shown on the initial pictures.

The initial picture also clearly shows the radial scratches are slightly deeper further on the barrel, as I expected.

Lengthwise scratches are not mentioned to be a problem ..yet.

Francis



#57 Paul80

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:40

It does still look like its a simple design faux pas to me and as Thomas has probably correctly pointed out the cap extends over the barrel quite a way before it even attempts to engage the threads.  perhaps it needs a thin felt ring placed around the mouth of the cap to protect the barrel from it until its engaged in the threads and then held in a proper centralised position.

 

Getting them to be bothered enough about their reputation to do anything about it is another question though.

 

I suspect it will take a lot more complaints before they will shift themselves on this one though, especially when you take into account where they are made. ;)

 

Paul



#58 thott

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 15:30

Hi Francis,

 

yes you are right....it is the radial scratces. But these scratches, in my opinion, occurs during turning the cap

and find the start of the tread with some missalignment.

 

When I compare the infrared picture with the normal one.

It is to see that the thread of the cap is positioned under the clip ring.

 

The radial scratches at the normal picture are not at the end of the cap, as it would be expected,

but it seems to be in the hight of the matal ring or even higher..

And it seems that it has the width of the metal ring and it seems close to the width of the barrel thread.

 

Btw. for what purpose is this matal ring.?

Is it embedded within the resin or is it open to the inside?

 

5-S.jpg

7-S.jpg

 

I feel like in the office with "Demage Assesment & Analysis"  :-)

 

Greetings

Thomas



#59 fountainbel

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 17:13

Hi Thomas,

I don't expect this metal ring is effectively covered with resin at the inside, since it clearly causes the radial scratches at the end of the screw-on operation.

Whatever, the ring is clearly to narrow and rubs against the barrel at the end of the screw-on operation

It would be nice if one of the owners could chime in to clarify if the ring is completely embedded or naked at the inside.

As what concerns its function, think the ring serves in two aspects :

1- Providing a pre-centering on the barrel while screwing the cap on.

2- providing a "posting" seat when posting the cap, while avoiding risks for cap cracks due to the radial posting pretension on the cap.

And yes, both these functions create inherent risks for scratching issues: radial scratches during the cap screw-on operation and linear scratches on the barrel during posting.

When the ring would be effectively "naked" at its inside, I would say this is a serious design flow, or to put it German it would be "der geplanter Fehl konstruktionen"

 

Francis



#60 orfew

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 19:50

I just took a look at the inside of my cap. The ring does not appear to be bare metal. It is black and smooth. It may be coated with plastic but I cannot be sure.


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