The Lamy Safari Is Just As Good As Any Other Pen. There: I've Said It.

[chad.trent]

I guess I'm just lucky. I have I think 10 Safari/Vista/Al-Stars and a 2000. All of them wrote great right out of the box. Most have a F nib. I do have an XF Safari and it is a little scratchy, but not unbearable.

[athenian]

I guess I'm just lucky. I have I think 10 Safari/Vista/Al-Stars and a 2000. All of them wrote great right out of the box. Most have a F nib. I do have an XF Safari and it is a little scratchy, but not unbearable.

I have to agree. I own many many Safaris, Vistas and Al-Stars with a variety of nibs and never had an issue with them. They all wrote flawless. Great pens.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have a Safari and it's twin the Joy. They are OK.

As a desk pen, I like the Joy better, it has better balance.

 

They ware not a Lamy Persona. It is a real first class pen.

All Lamy's I have are Nails....including a 27 and a CPM-1. My Artus are regular flex.

 

I prefer vintage pens with semi-flex or 'flexi' nibs....flexi in maxi-semi-flex.

I can get along with a good sharp lined vintage regular flex, like an Artus.

[migo984]

This article on the science of snobbery was published in The Atlantic recently. It mainly concerns wine, food & music but I wonder about the extent to which this is pertinent to the "appreciation" of expensive fountain pens.........?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/the-science-of-snobbery-how-were-duped-into-thinking-fancy-things-are-better/279571/

 

Marie

[Opooh]

De coloribus et gustibus non est disputandum. When you like a Lamy, that is ok for me. I prefer Jar's steak.

[GabrielleDuVent]

I've had good luck with my Lamy's. I possess two XFs, one Vista and one raspberry, and they both write well, without problems. I can throw it in a bag without fretting over it, it stays put, it's not heavy (I dislike heavy pens), and it's long enough to not give me severe cramps after writing the 5th letter of the day. It also handles vertical writing and horizontal writing - far better than my other pens - without much fuss.

 

But I'm the kind of a person who will never use flex nibs, dislike soft, broad, and wet nibs. So those who like flex nibs, or soft, broad, and wet nibs may hate Lamy Safaris with a passion unseen before. And then there's the general population who think we're crazy for plonking down more than $10 for a pen.

 

What I surmise (wildly, without much focus) is that those who dislike Lamy either find the nib too fussy/hard, or they demand more than just a function as a fountain pen in the fountain pen; perhaps the experience, the weight, the feeling of a heavier, more expensive pen completes their time.

[Centopar]

I bought a M Safari (and a converter, because I am a thoughtful woman) last week for a colleague who had been eyeing up my pen roll. He's delighted with it, and I wouldn't have bought it for him if I didn't think they're very nice pens. I've got a couple of italics of different sizes (both Al-Stars, but it's the same nib), and they're pleasant to use, reliable and solid little beasts.

 

But I wouldn't say they're "just as good" as one of my old flexy Watermans; or as my beautifully engineered VP with its lovely raden finish; or as my butter-smooth Pelikan 400 and its gorgeous piston mechanism.

 

They're still pretty darn good though, especially for the price.

[lurcho]

The Safari is not, of course, just as good as any other pen. Not really. And it's about more than writing performance for many. (But not for me, not really!)

 

I was being provocative - but only to a degree.

 

For one who wants to do serious writing or note-taking, an adjusted Safari/Vista will do just as well as a pen worth - I don't know - six times the price, perhaps.

 

The fact that it DOES need adjusting, almost invariably in my view and experience, is nearly irrelevant because many premium pens do too.

 

And the medium nib even has a very slight stubbishness that is now missing from the very latest Pelikans. (What on earth Pelikan is playing at, I don't know. Or, rather, I do, but don't like it.)

 

And I'll probably change my mind next week.

Edited September 12, 2013 by lurcho

[recluse]

Two things get me puzzled with regard to Safaris and alike. 1) why they are so popular and 2) why every now and then they are presented as some sort of identification device, up to the point that those who don't like Safaris are guilty of snobbery and use their pens for whatever but writing. Yes, they are sturdy but there's a lot sturdy inexpensive pens, which do not cause lively discussions. When was the last time someone went and said "I'm not trolling I just love Pelikan Future" or when people were suspected of snobbery because they dislike Sailor's Candy? Why it's okay to question whether some particular pen writes twice as good as Safari but not okay to justify whether Safari writes two times better than Rotring Surf or five times better than Platinum Preppy?

 

For me the most important characteristic of a pen is whether I can write with it comfortably several hours in a row. Then goes maintenance and durability, then how it looks. I do have Safari and it fails at the first step.

 

This is merely the question of personal preferences. Not only aesthetic but also environmental, tactile, muscular, what else. While there is some kind of rational background behind the preferences, it's highly non-universal. I could provide many reasons why M215 performs in general (and writes in particular) some necessary times better than Safari. But those same reasons for someone else would serve to prove why M215 is actually worse that many times.

 

I still don't understand, however, why Safari is so popular, while, for instance, Surf is almost in oblivion.

[de_pen_dent]

This article on the science of snobbery was published in The Atlantic recently. It mainly concerns wine, food & music but I wonder about the extent to which this is pertinent to the "appreciation" of expensive fountain pens.........?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/the-science-of-snobbery-how-were-duped-into-thinking-fancy-things-are-better/279571/

 

Marie

 

Interesting article - thanks for the link.

 

I am not sure I necessarily buy the argument when it comes to classical music. For one:

 

1/ Music, especially live music, is an subjective experience that does involve visual perception as well. Watching a musician immersed in the performance definitely affects perception. That isnt an unwelcome bias.

 

2/ Degree of familiarity will make a difference as well. The pieces I know *really* well, I can judge based on sound. Pieces I am not too familiar with will rely on visual cues for my initial evaluation/pleasure and as I get to know the music better and listen to various interpretations, my own evaluation changes.

 

3/ The test doesnt really make sense for music. For wines - you are comparing perceived quality to price and seeing how they correlate. For music - what are is two measures? Perceived quality vs ??? And what about the fact that state of mind may affect perception? There are times when I want to listen to a more measured performance of a particular piece - and there are other times when I want a balls-to-the-wall, release-the-hounds performance. I may rate the same performance differently depending on how i feel then.

 

Anyway, I digress.

Edited September 13, 2013 by de_pen_dent

[Oranges and Apples]

Sorry to add, annoyingly, perhaps, to my own belaboured post, But shouldn't writing be ordinary? It's ordinary for most people, with their biros and pencils (and I love pencils myself).

 

Shouldn't we be able to really, really love writing with a fountain pen that doesn't cost the earth, on paper that one can buy in any shop?

 

Writing with an object that is effectively a jewel seems wrong to me.

 

That's why I want a pen and a pad and an ink that I don't have to THINK ABOUT.

 

However - and I mean this - there's absolutely nothing wrong with collecting or using pens that are gorgeous. That are wonderful to hold and behold.

 

But all I've ever really wanted is to write with a fountain pen on paper. And not really worry about it.

 

That's all I really meant.

To me fountain pens act very similar to roller ball inks. Not all disposable roller balls work on all papers mainly due to feathering or bleeding through in my experience. So you buy a roller ball and find out the ink feathers or bleeds through everything but you really like that roller ball. It suits your hand or what have you. So a roller ball you really like is unusable and you have to find another roller ball to see that one works out for you.

 

It is the same thing for fountain pens except you could change the ink to see if the ink suits you and not the pen.

[migo984]

 

Interesting article - thanks for the link.

 

I am not sure I necessarily buy the argument when it comes to classical music.

 

I didn't agree with it all but yes, made some interesting points. I remember when I first read Blink, it was a bit of a light-bulb moment. A most thought-provoking book, without being mired in esoteric language

 

Marie

[tonybelding]

What I surmise (wildly, without much focus) is that those who dislike Lamy either find the nib too fussy/hard, or they demand more than just a function as a fountain pen in the fountain pen; perhaps the experience, the weight, the feeling of a heavier, more expensive pen completes their time.

 

I think most experienced FP users gravitate towards lightweight pens. My more expensive pens (Bexley, Edison) are also lightweights. However... When I was a FP noob, I was easily impressed by heavy pens with more metal parts.

 

I also am rather neutral on the Safari's appearance. I think it's the best-looking pen I've ever seen made out of ABS plastic, which is a durable and practical material. It's better looking than other "school pens" of recent memory, most of which look awkward or homely in some way.

 

My own personal gripes about the Safari are concerned mostly with the C/C system, since it doesn't accept standard cartridges or converters, and the Lamy converters seem to be on the shoddy side.

[Sailor Kenshin]

The Safari is not, of course, just as good as any other pen. Not really. And it's about more than writing performance for many. (But not for me, not really!)

 

I was being provocative - but only to a degree.

 

For one who wants to do serious writing or note-taking, an adjusted Safari/Vista will do just as well as a pen worth - I don't know - six times the price, perhaps.

 

The fact that it DOES need adjusting, almost invariably in my view and experience, is nearly irrelevant because many premium pens do too.

 

And the medium nib even has a very slight stubbishness that is now missing from the very latest Pelikans. (What on earth Pelikan is playing at, I don't know. Or, rather, I do, but don't like it.)

 

And I'll probably change my mind next week.

Only one of my dozen or so Safaris-Al-Stars needed adjusting, but clearly YMMV.

[Mike_Dowling]

So now people are snobs because they don't like the coveted Lamy Safari, good grief...

[migo984]

So now people are snobs because they don't like the coveted Lamy Safari, good grief...

 

Not sure anyone's said that.............

[Mike_Dowling]

 

Not sure anyone's said that.............

 

Not in those exact words no, but I've been known to be able to read between the lines from time to time:

 

 

 

 

This article on the science of snobbery was published in The Atlantic recently. It mainly concerns wine, food & music but I wonder about the extent to which this is pertinent to the "appreciation" of expensive fountain pens.........?

http://www.theatlant...-better/279571/

 

 

In a thread about the virtues of a cheap pen opposed to an expensive pen, this seems to insinuate that those who aren't in love with the Lamy Safari are snobs.

[migo984]

I posted that article as it was about the psychology of preference between expensive & less "valued" items, which seemed relevant & an interesting read. Although snobbery was mentioned in the title, the article wasn't really about that. And anyway no-one endorsed it. It's a shame you read "between the lines" & interpreted my intentions so negatively (& incorrectly).

[Mike_Dowling]

I posted that article as it was about the psychology of preference between expensive & less "valued" items, which seemed relevant & an interesting read. Although snobbery was mentioned in the title, the article wasn't really about that. And anyway no-one endorsed it. It's a shame you read "between the lines" & interpreted my intentions so negatively (& incorrectly).

 

I don't really care either way, but I can't see what would be the point of that article in the context of this thread if it weren't to attempt to make that correlation. I would just own it if that's how you feel to be honest.

[cbaytan]

Snobs'R'Us.