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Ebonite Pen As An Eyedropper (Safe?)

ebonite eyedropper edison morgan flex nib richard binder briadn gray

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20 replies to this topic

#1 heymatthew

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 20:19

Hello all,

I partook in the Limited Edition Ebonite Edison Morgan (say that 5 times fast) this year and I have been enjoying the pen immensely. It's my first Ebonite pen, but certainly won't be my last. I recently splurged a little and ordered a Fine, Full-Flex nib from Richard Binder for the Morgan (after seeing Brian Gray's video, I just couldn't resist).

 

:bunny01:  :bunny01:  :bunny01:  :bunny01:  :bunny01:

 

It arrived yesterday and I've been playing with it a good bit. I've noticed that the converter is a bit... um... lacking in volume. Basically I'm having too much fun, but my fun gets cut short because I run out of ink (OH THE HORROR!!!). 

 

I know that a lot of Brian's pens can be converted to eyedroppers. Is it safe to do this with an Ebonite pen? Is there anything I should worry about? I have the silicone grease and eyedroppers and what not on-hand, I just don't want to ruin the Ebonite or something. 

 

Any insight would be great.

 

Thanks so much!
Matthew


Edited by heymatthew, 27 August 2013 - 20:22.

No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

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#2 majorworks

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 20:27

I can't speak to whether an ebonite pen from Edison is suitable as an eyedropper or not (I suspect it is, but I'd defer to owners of Edison pens or even Brian himself, obviously). I can speak to the general suitability of ebonite as the material for an ED pen. It's quite suitable, and in fact I have three such pens myself. You won't ruin the ebonite itself by using the pen as an eyedropper.


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#3 Ernst Bitterman

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 20:30

It's been the material of choice for eyedroppers since about 1883, in fact.  Just make sure you've got the threads protected against seepage, and all should be well.


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#4 heymatthew

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 20:34

Hooray! Let the paper-wasting commence!!!! :D


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#5 majorworks

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 20:37

Take a look at Fountain Pen Revolution's site, particularly the Deccan pens. You'll notice many of them are ebonite and specifically deemed eyedroppers.

 

http://goo.gl/aKpgqb


Happiness is an Indian ED!

#6 heymatthew

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 20:57

Take a look at Fountain Pen Revolution's site, particularly the Deccan pens. You'll notice many of them are ebonite and specifically deemed eyedroppers.

 

http://goo.gl/aKpgqb

 

Thanks for the link. I've gotten some stuff from FPR before, I just didn't know if theirs were treated some special way or if all Ebonite pens could be used as ED pens. Glad to know I'm not bound to the tiny converter...


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#7 bgray

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 21:22

Yep, no problems there!  As Ernst said, one of the first pen materials was ebonite, and one of the first ways to fill a pen was with an ED, so there's a pretty good track record!  Just seal the housing and section threads, and you'll be set to go.



#8 inkstainedruth

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 23:32

In fact, right after seeing this thread I read one where someone talked about a modern ebonite eyedropper pen they just got. 

Serendipity, huh?

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth


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#9 Mesu

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:26

A word of caution when using any pen as an ED:

Don't let the ink volume in the barrel go very low. The warmth of your hand will cause the air in the barrel to expand, causing the pen to burp ink.

#10 heymatthew

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 01:59

A word of caution when using any pen as an ED:

Don't let the ink volume in the barrel go very low. The warmth of your hand will cause the air in the barrel to expand, causing the pen to burp ink.

 

So what you're telling me is that I need to have Brian make me a demonstrator model so I can see my ink level? Please... Explain it to my wife. :D

 

In all seriousness though, thank you for the advice. I've heard that before, but I'll be sure and keep it in mind. 

 

Regards,

Matthew


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#11 heymatthew

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 02:00

Thank you all for your comments and support here. I've successfully converted the Morgan and boy is it wonderful!!!! :D Mr. Gray did an amazing job and Mr. Binder really knocked it out of the park with the nib. I'm in hog heaven.


No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#12 bbbiswas

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:23

I believe all Edison ebonite CC pens are also good as ED pen. By default the threads on the section and barrel match very closely to prevent any ink leakage as ED pen.

 

In fact when I got my Herald Grande from Edison, the packet had silicone grease and eyedropper along with the pen. I removed the ink converter and then using it as an ED pen without using any grease. The pen has never leaked to stain my fingers.



#13 Mesu

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 10:00

 

So what you're telling me is that I need to have Brian make me a demonstrator model so I can see my ink level?

 

Please... Explain it to my wife. :D

 

Sure, as long as i am out of firing range

 

With something like..

 

"See..  Matthew has 76236 pens but he really really really wants an Edison Demonstrator model. So please let him buy one or maybe 2"   ;)


Edited by Mesu, 28 August 2013 - 10:01.


#14 bgray

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:35

A word of caution when using any pen as an ED:

Don't let the ink volume in the barrel go very low. The warmth of your hand will cause the air in the barrel to expand, causing the pen to burp ink.

 

Just to quickly bust this myth...an ED burping has nothing to do with heat from your hand.  It's the fact that a gas is elastic, and when the pen gets empty, the amount of air in the pen is larger, increasing the amount of elasticity.  This makes the pen more susceptible to burping.



#15 heymatthew

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:43

 
Sure, as long as i am out of firing range
 
With something like..
 
"See..  Matthew has 76236 pens but he really really really wants an Edison Demonstrator model. So please let him buy one or maybe 2"   ;)


Perfect! Thanks!
No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#16 hari317

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:45

 

Just to quickly bust this myth...an ED burping has nothing to do with heat from your hand.  It's the fact that a gas is elastic, and when the pen gets empty, the amount of air in the pen is larger, increasing the amount of elasticity.  This makes the pen more susceptible to burping.

 

It has something to do, actually. The air inside the barrel expands (increases in volume) as it gets heated from the heat of the holding hand. As it expands and when the pen is in writing position, this column of expanding air pushes the ink below it. If the feeder in the pen is incapable of buffering this extra ink, the ink escapes from the feed and via the nib drops onto the paper leading to the so called burp.

 

The emptier a pen gets, the more volume of air is available that can expand due to hand heat (plus other factors like lower ambient pressure like in an airplane) and force ink out  beyond the buffering capacity of the feeder(if the pen is in writing position when this is happening) so higher the susceptibility to burps.

 

HTH.


Edited by hari317, 28 August 2013 - 12:00.

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#17 heymatthew

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:45

 
Just to quickly bust this myth...an ED burping has nothing to do with heat from your hand.  It's the fact that a gas is elastic, and when the pen gets empty, the amount of air in the pen is larger, increasing the amount of elasticity.  This makes the pen more susceptible to burping.


Thanks for the information on this stuff. Glad you guys know the science behind our favorite hobby. Either way, though, burping is rude and they shouldn't do it. :)
No, that's not blood. That's Noodler's Antietam.

#18 bgray

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:33

 

It has something to do, actually. The air inside the barrel expands (increases in volume) as it gets heated from the heat of the holding hand. As it expands and when the pen is in writing position, this column of expanding air pushes the ink below it. If the feeder in the pen is incapable of buffering this extra ink, the ink escapes from the feed and via the nib drops onto the paper leading to the so called burp.

 

The emptier a pen gets, the more volume of air is available that can expand due to hand heat (plus other factors like lower ambient pressure like in an airplane) and force ink out  beyond the buffering capacity of the feeder(if the pen is in writing position when this is happening) so higher the susceptibility to burps.

 

HTH.

 

Sure, there can be an effect, but nothing appreciable, or anything that will really effect the pen, especially with modern feeds.

 

This discussion happened already here, make sure to read through all of this...

http://www.fountainp...dropper-system/

 

At one point, a physicist comments on what the effect of heat really is....it's around 4%, which should be taken care of by any feed, not only by holding this amount of ink, but also effectively exchanging the ink for air back into the reservoir.  And when an ED burps, it's a pretty good burp.  Not a little tiny leak of 4% of the capacity.

 

The real issue is simply inherent to a larger reservoir and related to the physics of a gas.


Edited by bgray, 28 August 2013 - 12:38.


#19 Namo

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 12:48

If I may: I've been using ED filler pens since at least five years almost everyday, incl. an Edison ext. Pearl, a custom DrGortex pen and (until I sold it) a Delta Dolce Vita OS. I never had a burp under normal circumstances. The only time I did have some burp/leaking troubles was when travelling in the Swiss Alps, going from 400m to 2'000m and back at least twice a week. And I did have the same troubles with pens used with a converter (the very same Edison and Delta and a Waterman Philéas).


Edited by Namo, 28 August 2013 - 17:32.

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#20 hari317

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 13:14

 

Sure, there can be an effect, but nothing appreciable, or anything that will really effect the pen, especially with modern feeds.

 

This discussion happened already here, make sure to read through all of this...

http://www.fountainp...dropper-system/

 

At one point, a physicist comments on what the effect of heat really is....it's around 4%, which should be taken care of by any feed, not only by holding this amount of ink, but also effectively exchanging the ink for air back into the reservoir.  And when an ED burps, it's a pretty good burp.  Not a little tiny leak of 4% of the capacity.

 

The real issue is simply inherent to a larger reservoir and related to the physics of a gas.

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the link. The discussion and what I say seem to agree... temperature and the ambient pressure play the part.

the key word in the discussion in that thread is burping is a non issue with a "modern good feed" link to the physicist's comment also 4% expansion is a big blob figure by his admission.

 

I also say that the burping will be mitigated if the feed has a sufficient buffering capacity (which a deeply finned modern feed has) but as you increase the ink capacity, the feeder buffer capacity remains the same so burping will happen since it is beyond the capability of the feeder to buffer/hold in its fins.

 

That is why sailor and other pen makers have standardised on the low ink capacities despite masterful feeds.

 

But the fundamentals of gas physics is well known. ruling out shocks and bumps due to someone shaking a pen, the parameters affecting normal flow of ink from reservoir to paper are only two: temperature (due to heat from any source) and the ambient pressure and fluctuations in the ambient pressure due to altitude changes etc.

 

e.g. in India, we can escape with the use of a very simple feeder, since we already have a very high ambient temperature. so the heat transfer from pen to hand and vice versa leads to minimal effect on the gas column temperature.

 

Best

Hari


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