scoring from cap on barrel

[KCat]

I mentioned below about my only gripe re: the Laban I have.

 

This has happened recently. I don't know if I was using it and tired and had the cap at an angle when replacing it or removing it. Or if someone else did something??? to cause this? or if it's just a slight design flaw.

 

this shows the scoring below the threads on the barrel - taken in hard light for visibility

http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/founts/score1.jpg

 

this shows how the cap band is designed. the lip itself is very smooth, but the inner edge of the *acrylic* feels quite sharp and is not entirely flush with the band. so it seems acrylic is scoring acrylic.

http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/founts/capband1.jpg

 

I don't know how I could smooth this acrylic edge without taking the plating (platinum) off of the cap band. not sure it's really that big a deal but it *seems* there should be plenty of room between cap lip and barrel that this wouldn't happen under proper use. there is only one other person that might have handled this pen and that is highly unlikely. so I can only guess it was another case of me doing something while I was tired.

[Dennis Lively]

KCAT,

 

I've sen this on a couple of pens. Buth modern and vintage. I honestly do not know for a fact what causes this. This is just a guess mind you so take it for what it's worth.

 

It may be due to shrinkage of the material that the cap is made of. But if that was the case wouldn't the whole pen both cap and barrel shrink at the same rate? Could it be from the stress that the cap bad is applying to that portion of the cap?

 

Honestly I just dont know.

 

How long have you had the pen?

 

Dennis

[Keith with a capital K]

My theory on this is that the threads in the cap barrel are mis-cut and when the pen is capped the cap threads are scoring the barrel.

 

On older pens, shrinkage can cause the cap threads to do the same thing to pen barrels as the tolerances are already close and the shrinkage brings them closer.

[KCat]

I've had the pen about 10 months. Keith - the problem with your theory is that the cap threads never come in contact with the barrel. between the start of the cap threads and the cap band is a wide, smooth gap. Threads match at the same point end point when the cap is screwed on. The spacing of the scoring "matches" the depth of the cap band. In fact, on close examination - the last line of scoring is at the same depth as the inner edge of acrylic that I said felt sharp. so there's little doubt in my mind that it is the culprit in this case.

 

but what to do about it? The only thing I could think of would be to find a way to sand down that lip but don't know how to do that without marring the band itself. And it seems pointless to buff out the scratches if it's just going to happen again.

 

oh well - it's interesting as I have plenty of other screw cap pens and have not seen this before. I've seen scratches from over-tightening or being in a hurry and putting the cap on such that it mars the section. just never this particular problem. certainly doesn't affect my enjoyment of the pen or the quality otherwise.

 

Why did it take 10 months to happen? unless there is something to the shrinkage theory...

hmmmmmmmmm...

[Dennis Lively]

KCat,

 

You could try some 2000 grit sand paper. (you can get it at wal-mart in the automotive section or any auto parts store) and give it a pass or 2 around the inner lip of the cap band. Then hit it with somw 12,000 grit to really smooth it out.

You can find the 12K in any nail salon. Look for the nail boards with they grey, black and white surfaces. the grey is generally the 12K. Then you can take the white part of the board (1,000 grit) to your barrel take out the scratches and again finish it off with the 12 K side for a super glossy finish.

 

Good luck

Dennis

[Gerry]

KCat,

 

You might try to locate a little bit of carbon paper. If you wrapped it around the barrel, carbon side out, then the offending part of the Cap might be identified (regardless, I tend to think you have already identified it).

 

Gerry

[KCat]

KCat,

 

You might try to locate a little bit of carbon paper. If you wrapped it around the barrel, carbon side out, then the offending part of the Cap might be identified (regardless, I tend to think you have already identified it).

 

Gerry

Well, that's cool, Gerry. I hadn't thought about that. Should have given the amount of dental work I've had done lately.

 

"chew chew chew"

[Dennis Lively]

Say that is a good idea Gerry. Cyber high 5 for originality. Well done.

 

Dennis

[Gerry]

Thanks Guys - too much time in the dentist's chair I guess

 

I wanted to compliment KCat on her photography - it's superb. Harsh lighting and all. The detail, lack of shadows and exposure are obvious signs of a photographer (or one great auto camera)

 

I also notice the great background - if I don't miss my guess - an Olfa cutting mat. Would you also dabble in quilting, or sewing perchance KCat?

 

But I digress. I intended to suggest a couple of options, although there may be more that others might add to the mix.

 

The threads that were cut seem pretty definite. Perhaps that is caused by the magnification of the photo - but I sense that there is depth to the grooves. Do you think it happened during one (or only a few) cap applications, or over a fairly long period of time, and many applications?

 

If the former, it may have been a foreign body trapped between the cap and barrel, if the latter, probably the rubbing of the surface that you indicated.

 

Should your analysis lead you to the inner liner of the cap as shown on the picture, removing the offending parts sems to be an obvious answer. Ideally, with a small shop and a lathe, one would turn the inside of the cap to a larger diameter back to the threads. Lacking a lathe, you can also try to remove material by hand - sanding, careful drilling, reaming etc. Since it is the inside of the cap, it won't be visible in normal use, and as long as you avoid marring the metal part - will likely be of no consequence to a collector. (I hope it isn't possible that the metal part caused the gouging...).

 

Another possible solution - and one that you'll have to at least consider in part anyway, since you will want to repair the scratches already present on the barrel - is to resurface the barrel. If the resurfacing ultimately reduces the barrel to a diameter that does not allow the cap to re-damage the barrel, you have prevented the problem from reoccuring. Again, a master repairer might use a lathe to turn down the barrel, but if the scratches aren't too deep, hand methods will work too.

 

I would recommend a combination of both - hand smoothing of the inner surface of the cap (you might try relatively fine abrasive paper wrapped around a drill shank to sort of ream the inner diameter to a slightly larger size), and be sure to remove any sharp edges and projections. Then turn to the barrel and through sanding, remove the grooves. Before moving on to the final polishing stages though, I would try screwing the cap on many times, varying the pressure and angle to see if there is any further scratching. No sense spending all that time polishing if it's just gonna be scratched again

 

Assuming the test went well, you can then put in the polishing time to return the barrel to the original lustre. And there you have it! A successfully restored trasure.

 

If the above process appears to be both fussy and time consuming - it probably is because it takes patience and time <grin> .

 

To avoid all that bother, you could just pack it up, send it to Dennis, and in a short time, it returns like new.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Gerry

[KCat]

Thanks Guys - too much time in the dentist's chair I guess

 

I wanted to compliment KCat on her photography - it's superb. Harsh lighting and all. The detail, lack of shadows and exposure are obvious signs of a photographer (or one great auto camera)

 

I also notice the great background - if I don't miss my guess - an Olfa cutting mat. Would you also dabble in quilting, or sewing perchance KCat?

 

But I digress. I intended to suggest a couple of options, although there may be more that others might add to the mix.

 

The threads that were cut seem pretty definite. Perhaps that is caused by the magnification of the photo - but I sense that there is depth to the grooves. Do you think it happened during one (or only a few) cap applications, or over a fairly long period of time, and many applications?

 

If the former, it may have been a foreign body trapped between the cap and barrel, if the latter, probably the rubbing of the surface that you indicated.

 

Should your analysis lead you to the inner liner of the cap as shown on the picture, removing the offending parts sems to be an obvious answer. Ideally, with a small shop and a lathe, one would turn the inside of the cap to a larger diameter back to the threads. Lacking a lathe, you can also try to remove material by hand - sanding, careful drilling, reaming etc. Since it is the inside of the cap, it won't be visible in normal use, and as long as you avoid marring the metal part - will likely be of no consequence to a collector. (I hope it isn't possible that the metal part caused the gouging...).

 

Another possible solution - and one that you'll have to at least consider in part anyway, since you will want to repair the scratches already present on the barrel - is to resurface the barrel. If the resurfacing ultimately reduces the barrel to a diameter that does not allow the cap to re-damage the barrel, you have prevented the problem from reoccuring. Again, a master repairer might use a lathe to turn down the barrel, but if the scratches aren't too deep, hand methods will work too.

 

I would recommend a combination of both - hand smoothing of the inner surface of the cap (you might try relatively fine abrasive paper wrapped around a drill shank to sort of ream the inner diameter to a slightly larger size), and be sure to remove any sharp edges and projections. Then turn to the barrel and through sanding, remove the grooves. Before moving on to the final polishing stages though, I would try screwing the cap on many times, varying the pressure and angle to see if there is any further scratching. No sense spending all that time polishing if it's just gonna be scratched again

 

Assuming the test went well, you can then put in the polishing time to return the barrel to the original lustre. And there you have it! A successfully restored trasure.

 

If the above process appears to be both fussy and time consuming - it probably is because it takes patience and time <grin> .

 

To avoid all that bother, you could just pack it up, send it to Dennis, and in a short time, it returns like new.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Gerry

Hi Gerry.

 

well, I'm in learning mode on the photography. I have an inexpensive ($200!) Olympus digital camera. I'm finding, oddly enough, that *not* using macro mode makes for better images. Supposedly macro should add depth of field but I find that with an object like a pen or paper that is so "linear" (lack of better words) the macro mode distorts the lines - making pens sometimes look warped if they're near the outer edge of the field or making straight edges of backgrounds look warped.

 

sewing largely. though I haven't done a lot lately. I got this mat on sale years ago (it's the large size 24x36?) and is normally ridiculously expensive. But great for sewing, great for the map work hubby and I do, and actually though rather boring - is a good general background for detailed pics of pen parts.

 

on to the pen thing - Yes, the scoring is rather defined. a fingernail will catch in them as you draw it lightly across. I hadn't really considered the possibility of a sharp particle causing this but that actually makes more sense. To my knowledge, this is a new development. I didn't see it for several months, then one day it was there. Now, given that this pen has been photographed outside on a few occasions in my flagstone-floored atrium - the possibility that a grain of sand (flagstone easily crumbles) got in the niche between the cap band and the acrylic lip seems to be a more probable cause. wish I'd considered it earlier. In fact, the reason I was so curious about this damage is that it did seem to occur quite suddenly and certainly I've used the pen many times since it's purchase almost a year ago. I have had to dust it off a few times after taking pics. It just doesn't photograph well in a light tent or full sunlight so the atrium is perfect with diffuse, natural lighting.

 

For now I will probably just polish the pen lightly to see how it stands up to such an effort and also to see if the grooves can be removed with hand polishing. For diagnostic purposes. I'll also rinse the entire pen thoroughly to make sure there is no sand/grit in the cap. if the scoring continues, then I think I'll try some way to smooth the acrylic lip. no, there's no way that I can see that the cap band itself could cause this problem. It doesn't match up with the marks and there is a significant gap between band and barrel.

 

all that said - much as I love this beauty, I will not be terribly disturbed if the problem can't be resolved. I'm a "user" much more than a collector and the pen still writes beautifully and feels good on the hand. :-)

[Guest Denis Richard]

yup... the particule option seems very possible. If it were really the edge of the barrel, I would expect a scratched band on the barrel, not a well defined thread, as it is.

 

my late, useless, 1.2 cents.

 

Denis.

[KCat]

yup... the particule option seems very possible. If it were really the edge of the barrel, I would expect a scratched band on the barrel, not a well defined thread, as it is.

 

my late, useless, 1.2 cents.

 

Denis.

hadn't thought of that, Denis with one n.

 

Not useless at all.

 

Thank you,

[Gerry]

well, I'm in learning mode on the photography. I have an inexpensive ($200!) Olympus digital camera. I'm finding, oddly enough, that *not* using macro mode makes for better images. Supposedly macro should add depth of field but I find that with an object like a pen or paper that is so "linear" (lack of better words) the macro mode distorts the lines - making pens sometimes look warped if they're near the outer edge of the field or making straight edges of backgrounds look warped.

 

It's been a while since I've been terribly active in photography, but from what I can recall, Macro is roughly the equivalent of having a close-up lens added - or extension tubes - to allow very near field photography. One thing that doesn't come with close-up is depth of field, and wide angle distortion is a close second. Nope, if your camera can focus closely enough to put the image you want in focus, you will always see a better result without the macro.

 

Gerry

[Gerry]

[snip]

 

on to the pen thing - Yes, the scoring is rather defined.  a fingernail will catch in them as you draw it lightly across. 

 

[snip]

 

For now I will probably just polish the pen lightly to see how it stands up to such an effort and also to see if the grooves can be removed with hand polishing.  For diagnostic purposes.  I'll also rinse the entire pen thoroughly to make sure there is no sand/grit in the cap.  if the scoring continues, then I think I'll try some way to smooth the acrylic lip.  no, there's no way that I can see that the cap band itself could cause this problem.  It doesn't match up with the marks and there is a significant gap between band and barrel.

 

all that said - much as I love this beauty, I will not be terribly disturbed if the problem can't be resolved.  I'm a "user" much more than a collector and the pen still writes beautifully and feels good on the hand. :-)

That's a great plan KCat, but I believe that you will not be able to reduce the barrel enough by hand polishing to make the grooves go away (if they are deep enough to catch a nail).

 

Polish anyway, because it will help with what I am going to suggest in any case.

 

After testing to see that the damage is not going to reoccur, why not try filling the grooves with CA (superglue)? This is a low/no risk option, since the next option is to sand the barrel down enough to remove the grooves - which would remove the CA anyway. If the groove is polished a bit first, the clear plastic CA will just appear as a gloss overlay, blending in with the rest of the pen. You might try this technique on a junker first - scratching it with a file or nail. You will be surprised how easily the CA fills the scratch (sometimes takes a couple of applications to fill), and it's not a huge amount of work to take the resulting CA bump down to the level of the pen surface if you use graduated grades of sandpaper (I recommend the nail files you can get in WalMart with the three grades of abrasive on them). The large surface - Gray I think, is about 12,000 grit, and polishes to a near perfect shine. The other surfaces - perhaps 1,000 and 4,000 grit are used to take the CA bump off initially. Although they work fine dry, I like to use them wet as they last longer and don't load up, possibly causing a scratch from the piled up material. These nail files are very roughly 6 inches long, by 1/2 inch wide and are constructed with a foam board core.

 

If you have any questons KCat, don't hesitate to ask. I always fear I haven't covered everything - which leads to excessively long posts (sorry everyone), and will soon get down to point form and waiting for questions...

 

Gerry

[KCat]

 

If you have any questons KCat, don't hesitate to ask. I always fear I haven't covered everything - which leads to excessively long posts (sorry everyone), and will soon get down to point form and waiting for questions...

 

Gerry

Off-topic but I'm glad someone else has my disease.

[KCat]

an update on the scratched pen saga.

 

i haven't taken a decent pic yet but I did manage to get much of the scoring off of the barrel of my Laban. I need to get a better buffing tool though as there's one area that won't get that lovely shine back. I stopped short of complete removal of the lines only because I wasn't certain how far I could go. I will, however, finish the job at some point. And as yet, with several periods of use, there is no recurrence of the problem. So i think the theory that there was some particle that got stuck in that joint between cap ring and cap material that caused the scrapes is the highest probably cause.

 

oh... i used a 600 grit sandpaper, then went to a finer grit (about 2000), then to three grades of lapping film and finally a polish with soft cloth and not the worlds best polish but okay stuff.

[Gerry]

an update on the scratched pen saga.

 

i haven't taken a decent pic yet but I did manage to get much of the scoring off of the barrel of my Laban.  I need to get a better buffing tool though as there's one area that won't get that lovely shine back.  I stopped short of complete removal of the lines only because I wasn't certain how far I could go.  I will, however, finish the job at some point.  And as yet, with several periods of use, there is no recurrence of the problem.  So i think the theory that there was some particle that got stuck in that joint between cap ring and cap material that caused the scrapes is the highest probably cause.

 

oh... i used a 600 grit sandpaper, then went to a finer grit (about 2000), then to three grades of lapping film and finally a polish with soft cloth and not the worlds best polish but okay stuff.

Way to go K.

 

Wish I could see the pic's.

 

Congratulations, you have discovered the 'secret' to successful polishing. Start with an abrasive that's sufficiently aggressive to remove the marks (too aggressive, and you'll have to remove the abrasive marks too), progress through successively finer grades of abrasive until there are no marks, and finish with a extremely fine polishing compound. As mentioned in another thread, Micro Gloss- with a grade of about 1 micron, is just great, as are others.

 

It's sometimes better to start on the finer side, and move to a more aggressive grit if the resurfacing is not going as fast as you think is necessary. Also, you don't have to use every single grit in order - skip a few to make better progress. Alternate the direction of finishing with each grit you use so you can see when you've removed the marks left by the previous grit.

 

I find that there's just about nothing to compare with the satisfaction of seeing the final polish just sort of appear - something so deep you think you can just jump right in...

 

Of course, there's Science to explain most of this - and in the industry, tools to measure gloss etc. The bottom line though is that you're trying to get the surface smoothness down to the micron range to get the desired luster. Whatever polish, abrasive or wax you're using has to be able to let you get there.

 

Looking forward to other postings of methods and materials. I'm right now working with Dennis's technique using a flannel wheel on a Dremel (Variable Speed). While it's really handy to use a hand held tool (I can follow progress using a headset magnifier which is great) I still can't duplicate the speed and finish with the big 6 inch wheel. To be honest - it could be just due to all the experience I have with it though.

 

Yours in polishing

 

Gerry

[KCat]

well - here are the results of removing the scoring lines (finally)

 

I can't get the original sheen back but I think that's simply a matter of not having the "elbow grease" to do so. A proper buffing contraption would probably make the difference. Just can't do that right now. still, it's better. the picture is a bit deceptive in that you can still, in very strong light, see a hint of the original problem. This too would probably be resolved by "more power." I'm happy with it as is though.

 

http://www.ghg.net/schwerpt/founts/laban2.jpg

[wimg]

Hi Kcat,

 

I'm sorry I didn't see this thread any sooner.

 

The scoring IS caused by the sharp edge of the inside of the metal cap ring, by a piece of it. The threads of the cap always engage at the same position, probably every 120 degrees or so (as with most pens, could be just one or two as well). This means the cutting part of the inside sharp edge always engages at the same spot(s), and creates a pattern which is very similar, but not as deep as the normal threads of the cap or on the barrel.

 

I reckon the inside of the cap ring is not finished as perfectly as it should, which you can probably feel by moving your finger along the inside edge (pinky or so, but very carefully!, as not to cut your finger). Very likely has a burr of some sort.

 

You can file/lathe/grind it away, and smooth it over with mylar.

 

Now you have removed material from the barrel, it is likely not to engage anymore as it did before, because it doesn't reach deep enough anymore to constantly engage the barrel. However, it may still scratch the barrel a little, occasionally, from jolts. Actually, it may even crack the barrel, as it is, in a way, the same as tapping with a sharp nail on the barrel. So I would recommend removing the sharp little bit from the inside of the metal ring regardless.

 

HTH,

 

Warm regards,

WtMD