"expensive" Pens...with Steel Nibs?

[Fleetlord]

I'm noticing a trend with some manufacturers...

 

Steel nibs on pens with "luxury" price points..

 

Caran D' Ache has a line with a retail in the $700 range...Steel Nib.

 

Dupont has steel nibs on the Defi line

 

Montegrappa is steel on a few models.

 

The fringe German brands...Otto Hutt and Achim Velte....Steel Nibs..

 

I get it, the price of gold...blah blah blah...

 

But, it's kind of a play for suckers....I mean, let's just charge the price of a gold nib pen for a SS nib one and they'll never figure it out...lol

 

 

To be fair, Montegrappa did lower the price point some on the SS models...but the other makers....ha

 

Ultimately, I will protest with my wallet. I won't be buying any of the above, when the Japanese can put a gold nib on their pens and charge less...

 

What say you?

 

 

 

 

[jar]

I say; "Hope it makes you happy."

 

I really don't care what a nib is made of, rather I care how well the nib is made.

[Cerbervs]

I think that it is a interesting business decision, but if it performs as well as a gold nib then I would not complain.

[CAG_1787]

If they lowered the price commensurately, I wouldn't care one way or the other, but restricting the supply so that they can charge gold-level prices for steel nibs is annoying.

[jar]

If they lowered the price commensurately, I wouldn't care one way or the other, but restricting the supply so that they can charge gold-level prices for steel nibs is annoying.

 

 

Where is there any evidence of restricting supply or that anyone is charging gold level pricing for steel nibs?

[Florida Blue]

I suppose it depends on what one is used to paying for a pen.

 

I do agree that a $700 pen with a steel nib seems slightly ridiculous, but if it does write well than it serves its purpose.

 

The other day, I was reading the review of the new Sheaffer Taranis on FPGeeks (because It looks pretty neat), and I was surprised to read several comments that stated that $145 was overpriced for a steel nib pen. Again, it depends on your perspective and what you can afford/are used to paying.

 

This topic also reminds me of those Delta Fusion nibs. It nerves me that they charge upwards of $400 for a Fusion 1 when it is just a steel nib with some thin, little gold mask over it. There does get to be a point when the materials of the pen don't really justify the cost.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Florida Blue

[ethernautrix]

I like Pelikan pens, because it is easy to change nibs. I use a steel F in my Toledo M710; I just prefer the way it writes. I won't be getting rid of the 18-kt gold nib that came with it any time soon, though.

 

For the Pelikan Toledo -- a steel nib does seem particularly incongruous. But, as I say, I prefer this steel F over Pelikan's gold nibs.

[olivier78860]

I don't know the other pens, but try a S.T. Dupont Défi, and then tell me how the nib performs. I have one, it's a fantastic writer. There is no gold nib option for this pen, so I don't really know where the "charging the price of gold for steel" assumption comes from.

 

 

Nowadays, a nib weights about 1 g, and an 18ct gold will be 750/1000 of pure gold, so around 0.75g.

 

Considering today's gold price is $47.5 for a g, it costs around $35 of gold to make a nib. Add some copper, some silver, you have less than $40 of raw materials to produce it, if we say a 1g steel plate costs a few cents.

Then compressing/cutting it, stamping it, forming it, tipping it, grinding it, it will cost the same, be it steel or gold.

 

So you have a $40 difference in raw material between a pen with an 18ct gold nib and the same pen with a stainless steel nib, if that option still exists, and if the brand makes their own nibs (otherwise, you add Bock's or Schmidt margin).

 

Of course, with a 14ct gold nib, the difference cost is even inferior.

Now go and sue Montblanc because they use 14ct nibs instead of 18ct nibs on the Heritage resin they sell for 880€.

 

In case you haven't noticed, you buy the brand and not only the image, but the savoir-faire, when you pay for a prestigious fountain pen. Adjustments are perfect, details show a difference.

 

What is the cost of a Montblanc 149, a Pelikan M1000 ? Let's see... 20 grams of machined and coloured PMMA, two or three gold plated steel rings, plus a 1.5g nib, so an impressive grand total of 50€ of raw materials.

Add 2 hours of work, as I am in a generous mood today, so we reach the impressive bar of 80€.

 

Of course, some more factors are to be taken into account, like marketing, making the factory work, investment, and so on. But basically, your pen is worth 80€, reduced to its materials' weight.

 

It will cost you 710€ for the Montblanc, and 650€ for the Pelikan nowadays. Go vote with your wallet please. Tell them their pens should be in diamond and 24ct gold for that price.

 

On a side note, everybody seems to praise the Lamy Safari. Sold 20€, costs 20cts to make. Go figure.

Edited August 12, 2013 by olivier78860

[Fleetlord]

I don't know the other pens, but try a S.T. Dupont Défi, and then tell me how the nib performs. I have one, it's a fantastic writer. There is no gold nib option for this pen, so I don't really know where the "charging the price of gold for steel" assumption comes from.

 

 

Nowadays, a nib weights about 1 g, and an 18ct gold will be 750/1000 of pure gold, so around 0.75g.

 

Considering today's gold price is $47.5 for a g, it costs around $35 of gold to make a nib. Add some copper, some silver, you have less than $40 of raw materials to produce it, if we say a 1g steel plate costs a few cents.

Then compressing/cutting it, stamping it, forming it, tipping it, grinding it, it will cost the same, be it steel or gold.

 

So you have a $40 difference in raw material between a pen with an 18ct gold nib and the same pen with a stainless steel nib, if that option still exists, and if the brand makes their own nibs (otherwise, you add Bock's or Schmidt margin).

 

Of course, with a 14ct gold nib, the difference cost is even inferior.

Now go and sue Montblanc because they use 14ct nibs instead of 18ct nibs on the Heritage resin they sell for 880€.

 

In case you haven't noticed, you buy the brand and not only the image, but the savoir-faire, when you pay for a prestigious fountain pen. Adjustments are perfect, details show a difference.

 

What is the cost of a Montblanc 149, a Pelikan M1000 ? Let's see... 20 grams of machined and coloured PMMA, two or three gold plated steel rings, plus a 1.5g nib, so an impressive grand total of 50€ of raw materials.

Add 2 hours of work, as I am in a generous mood today, so we reach the impressive bar of 80€.

 

Of course, some more factors are to be taken into account, like marketing, making the factory work, investment, and so on. But basically, your pen is worth 80€, reduced to its materials' weight.

 

It will cost you 710€ for the Montblanc, and 650€ for the Pelikan nowadays. Go vote with your wallet please. Tell them their pens should be in diamond and 24ct gold for that price.

 

On a side note, everybody seems to praise the Lamy Safari. Sold 20€, costs 20cts to make. Go figure.

 

It's cool that you have and enjoy your Dupont Defi. It's $510 retail with a steel nib. Needless to say, I won't be joining you in owning one.

 

At that price point, I think it should have a gold nib. They could even charge a little more $$ to throw some GOLD on there...but pay that for some steel? Never in my pen box..

[CAG_1787]

 

 

Where is there any evidence of restricting supply or that anyone is charging gold level pricing for steel nibs?

 

I think the OP referenced two top-level, premium-priced pens that had steel nibs. I didn't take the time to check his numbers.

 

My point was more in the abstract: I'm okay with a pen company charging more for a pen with a gold nib. I'm not okay with them charging gold-level prices on steel-level pens.

 

Not that I'm a gold snob. Some of my smoothest nibs, particularly on the Pelikans, are steel.

[georges zaslavsky]

There are some vintage MB 136, 138 and 139 which are fantastic writers

[jar]

 

I think the OP referenced two top-level, premium-priced pens that had steel nibs. I didn't take the time to check his numbers.

 

My point was more in the abstract: I'm okay with a pen company charging more for a pen with a gold nib. I'm not okay with them charging gold-level prices on steel-level pens.

 

Not that I'm a gold snob. Some of my smoothest nibs, particularly on the Pelikans, are steel.

 

Yes, he mentioned some mid level expensive pens that have steel nibs; but the pens he mentioned would still be expensive had they come with gold nibs. The pens mentioned are not expensive due to any of the materials but rather because the companies attention to even the most mundane of details. Just cap and uncap an ST Dupont pen and you may understand.

[Fleetlord]

 

Yes, he mentioned some mid level expensive pens that have steel nibs; but the pens he mentioned would still be expensive had they come with gold nibs. The pens mentioned are not expensive due to any of the materials but rather because the companies attention to even the most mundane of details. Just cap and uncap an ST Dupont pen and you may understand.

 

To my knowledge, modern St. Dupont had not been using steel nibs before the Defi...Now, they come out with a steel nib based Defi and the base version is $510? Other Defi versions are higher $$ than that..Plus they claim it took them two years to design a special corrosion resistant 304L steel nib? C'mon....

 

The Delta Fusion nib is a farce...another example of a manufacturing material downgrade under the guise of superior design and technology...lol

 

It's just a trend I'm noticing...It's kinda lame.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Fleetlord

[CAG_1787]

 

Yes, he mentioned some mid level expensive pens that have steel nibs; but the pens he mentioned would still be expensive had they come with gold nibs. The pens mentioned are not expensive due to any of the materials but rather because the companies attention to even the most mundane of details. Just cap and uncap an ST Dupont pen and you may understand.

 

How very charitable of you to think that I may one day gain such enlightenment.

 

Hopefully with the increasingly precise computer-automated production capacities, the sophistication of even steel nibs will only improve with time.

[paultyler_82]

I think the idea of "charging gold-nib level prices" is sort of hand in hand with the fact that most upper tier pens have historically used gold nibs. I don't think what you are seeing reflected in the prices are really a result of the nib, rather a result of a combination of factors: the cost of ALL the materials used in the pen, the cost of the manufacturing process, and the companies' usual pricing for pens in that segment regardless of nib. As long as it is made and finished with great care, a steel nib can write with amazing smoothness. As was pointed out, the actual cost of materials in a gold nib is only about $30-50 dollars... if anything, using a steel nib is only padding the company's profit margin by an average of $35 dollars per pen, that hardly explains the massive price jump between what you would consider a "steel-nib level" and a "gold-nib level" price on a pen, one needs to look at the rest of the pen for answers in that price difference and past the nib.

[jar]

 

To my knowledge, modern St. Dupont had not been using steel nibs before the Defi...Now, they come out with a steel nib based Defi and the base version is $510? Other Defi versions are higher $$ than that..Plus they claim it took them two years to design a special corrosion resistant 304L steel nib? C'mon....

 

The Delta Fusion nib is a farce...another example of a manufacturing material downgrade under the guise of superior design and technology...lol

 

It's just a trend I'm noticing...It's kinda lame.

 

 

That's fine. If you find the price out of line or believe something is just marketing then simply don't buy that pen.

 

One of the great things about today is that there are so many choices available.

[JessR45]

I think an expensive pen should have a gold nib, period. I'm sure a steel nib can be made to write just as well as a gold nib, but at a certain price point I have been kind of spoiled with all the wonderful choices out there. I don't understand the logic of it all.

[olivier78860]

I think an expensive pen should have a gold nib, period. I'm sure a steel nib can be made to write just as well as a gold nib, but at a certain price point I have been kind of spoiled with all the wonderful choices out there. I don't understand the logic of it all.

As I said earlier, consider a 710€ Montblanc 149 or a 650€ Pelikan M1000. Those are plastic with a 50€ gold nib. Are they worth the price asked ? If you answer yes to this, yet think the steel nib is a problem on a 500€ Défi, I think there is a logic problem as well.

[rwilsonedn]

Some people fixate on the few grams of gold alloyed with the other metals in the nib. For them the word "gold" needs to appear somewhere in the description for a pen to have a high price. Others fixate on the brand reputation, or the decorative materials, or the appearance, or the writing experience, or the historical significance, or the scarcity. About the only point of agreement is that you have to fixate on something in order to justify a high price: we just don't agree on our fixations.

ron

[Moshe ben David]

I like Pelikan pens, because it is easy to change nibs. I use a steel F in my Toledo M710; I just prefer the way it writes. I won't be getting rid of the 18-kt gold nib that came with it any time soon, though.

 

For the Pelikan Toledo -- a steel nib does seem particularly incongruous. But, as I say, I prefer this steel F over Pelikan's gold nibs.

 

Maybe Pelikan are paying homage to the swordsmiths of Toledo!