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Why Didnt This Dupont Pen Sell ?


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#21 olivier78860

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 10:46

Did I say anything different ? I said - rollback to my first post, please - that this pen had a ding, and that it should importantly reduce its value. I never said the price asked for it was good, considering its state.

I also said that this model, NOS (i.e. perfect) pen without box and paper, at $650, would have been, maybe not a bargain, but a very good price, according to what they sell for usually. For instance, I paid 650€ for mine without box, but brand new, and with the box, it would go for 1000€ at least. I also stated that there were many well-priced pens in the market, nowadays, which didn't sell, because of the situation.

Now if you don't like that pen, I agree, it's a matter of taste. On my side, I wouldn't want to pay 3000€ for a Montblanc 139, because in my eyes, it wouldn't be worth more than 500. But please accept that market prices aren't as low as what you think they should be, it really never works like that.

Now, as I have already repeated myself too many times, and that I have given all relevant informations regarding this pen, I will stop posting in this topic, since it seems people don't make an effort to read what's written.

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#22 georges zaslavsky

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 11:47

Did I say anything different ? I said - rollback to my first post, please - that this pen had a ding, and that it should importantly reduce its value. I never said the price asked for it was good, considering its state.

I also said that this model, NOS (i.e. perfect) pen without box and paper, at $650, would have been, maybe not a bargain, but a very good price, according to what they sell for usually. For instance, I paid 650€ for mine without box, but brand new, and with the box, it would go for 1000€ at least. I also stated that there were many well-priced pens in the market, nowadays, which didn't sell, because of the situation.

Now if you don't like that pen, I agree, it's a matter of taste. On my side, I wouldn't want to pay 3000€ for a Montblanc 139, because in my eyes, it wouldn't be worth more than 500. But please accept that market prices aren't as low as what you think they should be, it really never works like that.

Now, as I have already repeated myself too many times, and that I have given all relevant informations regarding this pen, I will stop posting in this topic, since it seems people don't make an effort to read what's written.

Very true. Problem is that some people here think that luxury is cheap and don't know a damn thing about real market values. If someone has no money to afford luxury items then he should move to entry level and mid range pens.


Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

#23 hari317

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:01

dupont are never cheap pens even in used condition whether they are modern or vintage pens

http://morastylos.co...s-t-dupont.html

http://morastylos.co...s-t-dupont.html

http://www.nibs.com/PreOwnF_french.htm

If people think that they will find a Dupont for cheap, then they are wrong and should look for a chinese or an indian pen

 

Pls do a reality check. Not everybody lives in France and buys from Mora, the used pen price for the Chairman in the listing is NOT 650USD. It is typically found for much lesser when sold in second hand. The pen DID NOT sell. if it had sold, you would have been right.

 

Mora and Mottishaw and some others can ask whatever they want for the used pens they sell, that is because they are Mora and Mottishaw. Change the seller for the same items, and see the results.

 

and pls there is no need to insult other nations, the Dupont pens are, after all, known for their Chinese lacquer.

 

and funny you talk about Luxury. Luxury is NOT buying items second hand. Luxury companies don't care two hoots about the people buying used and second hand. Used is Used.


Edited by hari317, 09 August 2013 - 12:04.

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#24 ForeverStained

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:02

Did I say anything different ? I said - rollback to my first post, please - that this pen had a ding, and that it should importantly reduce its value. I never said the price asked for it was good, considering its state.

I also said that this model, NOS (i.e. perfect) pen without box and paper, at $650, would have been, maybe not a bargain, but a very good price, according to what they sell for usually. For instance, I paid 650€ for mine without box, but brand new, and with the box, it would go for 1000€ at least. I also stated that there were many well-priced pens in the market, nowadays, which didn't sell, because of the situation.

Now if you don't like that pen, I agree, it's a matter of taste. On my side, I wouldn't want to pay 3000€ for a Montblanc 139, because in my eyes, it wouldn't be worth more than 500. But please accept that market prices aren't as low as what you think they should be, it really never works like that.

Now, as I have already repeated myself too many times, and that I have given all relevant informations regarding this pen, I will stop posting in this topic, since it seems people don't make an effort to read what's written.

Oliver i was going to post more of the same as what you said but really .... you have said it all.   lol

and quite nicely too.  thanks. lol

 

and thanks to everyone for their opinions.....  even if people dont seem to read all thats posted and mess up.... the posts are fun to read.

 

we all have our personal taste.  this style Dupont happens to be one of my favourites.....

even if its not yours. thats why there are so many different pens out there.


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#25 Bo Bo Olson

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 12:03

:P I'm an expert...now...on Cheap Duponts...You don't want one.

 

The price is a bit more that I knew.... :rolleyes:

 

Well as always, another day, another thing learned on FPN.

 

I don't need the 139...I have it's little brother the 234 1/2 Deluxe. :) Got cheap too. :D

I being 'noobie' didn't want it....but it was in the lot at a live auction.

Very lucky the other bidder didn't know beans either.

Three years ago, when the current depression was deeper. B)


German vintage '50-70 semi-flex stubs and those in oblique give the real thing in On Demand line variation. Modern Oblique is a waste of money for a shadow of line variation. Being too lazy to Hunt for affordable vintage oblique pens, lets you 'hunt' for line variation instead of having it.

www.nibs.com/blog/nibster-writes/nibs-germany & https://www.peter-bo...cts/nib-systems,

 

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#26 georges zaslavsky

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:01

 

Pls do a reality check. Not everybody lives in France and buys from Mora, the used pen price for the Chairman in the listing is NOT 650USD. It is typically found for much lesser when sold in second hand. The pen DID NOT sell. if it had sold, you would have been right.

 

Mora and Mottishaw and some others can ask whatever they want for the used pens they sell, that is because they are Mora and Mottishaw. Change the seller for the same items, and see the results.

 

and pls there is no need to insult other nations, the Dupont pens are, after all, known for their Chinese lacquer.

 

and funny you talk about Luxury. Luxury is NOT buying items second hand. Luxury companies don't care two hoots about the people buying used and second hand. Used is Used.

They have a reputation and offer a real customer service kinda like Ron Zorn, Terri Morris, Bryant, Joel Hamilton and Sherrell Tyree, Gary Lherer, David Isaacson, David Nishimura, Sarj Minhas, Jean Elie. and Richard Binder not the case of epray powersellers. The values of the market are the ones which dictate the law of supply demand. Nobody cares if luxury is bought used or not used, luxury remains luxury, end of story. Kinda like for a Rolex, a Rolex is a Rolex, not a Seiko. Not everyone wants to buy a cat in the bag which doesn't work. An epray seller even powerseller hasn't got the same reputation that someone who is a pen restorer or pen seller for over two decades. I am not insulting other countries, but just pointing out that they produce lower quality pens and it is the truth. Like someone said in the the other thread "why do we buy expensive pens?", he replied if you can't afford a nice beefsteak then stick to the hamburger, same reply from me.    


Edited by georges zaslavsky, 09 August 2013 - 16:01.

Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

#27 jar

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:11

 Like someone said in the the other thread "why do we buy expensive pens?", he replied if you can't afford a nice beefsteak then stick to the hamburger, same reply from me.    

 

 

Not quite Georges;  I said "if you are satisfied with hamburger, don't order steak."

 

The point is, whether or not you can afford something it is silly to buy stuff you don't want. 


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#28 hari317

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 16:40

They have a reputation and offer a real customer service kinda like Ron Zorn, Terri Morris, Bryant, Joel Hamilton and Sherrell Tyree, Gary Lherer, David Isaacson, David Nishimura, Sarj Minhas, Jean Elie. and Richard Binder not the case of epray powersellers. The values of the market are the ones which dictate the law of supply demand. Nobody cares if luxury is bought used or not used, luxury remains luxury, end of story. Kinda like for a Rolex, a Rolex is a Rolex, not a Seiko. Not everyone wants to buy a cat in the bag which doesn't work. An epray seller even powerseller hasn't got the same reputation that someone who is a pen restorer or pen seller for over two decades. I am not insulting other countries, but just pointing out that they produce lower quality pens and it is the truth. Like someone said in the the other thread "why do we buy expensive pens?", he replied if you can't afford a nice beefsteak then stick to the hamburger, same reply from me.    

"The values of the market are the ones which dictate the law of supply demand."

 

The same values have determined that the pen we are discussing is not worth the price, regardless of what the seller may fantasy the value to be.

 

"Nobody cares if luxury is bought used or not used, luxury remains luxury, end of story."

 

You can continue to delude yourself in second hand, bought used or hand me downs as luxuries. That can also be a state of mind.


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#29 RLTodd

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 18:02

Momentary thought. 

 

If the Dupont collectors didn't buy, it was probably over priced for the current market.

 

As far as the "have to buy for the quality" issue.  I site the Edsal effect.  You can build a very good car for a Ford-Lincoln-Mercury, but if people are not attracted to it, it will not suceed in the market.


YMMV

#30 georges zaslavsky

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 18:25

Not quite Georges;  I said "if you are satisfied with hamburger, don't order steak."

 

The point is, whether or not you can afford something it is silly to buy stuff you don't want. 

You are correct


Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

#31 georges zaslavsky

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 18:26

Momentary thought. 

 

If the Dupont collectors didn't buy, it was probably over priced for the current market.

 

As far as the "have to buy for the quality" issue.  I site the Edsal effect.  You can build a very good car for a Ford-Lincoln-Mercury, but if people are not attracted to it, it will not suceed in the market.

People in the US buy more German Luxury Prestige sedans than American ones.


Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time

#32 Sasha Royale

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 19:04

$670 ($20 shipping) is a lot of money.  The targeted class of buyer is a small class. 

What does it do ?  It is probably worth it, but That's a lot of money. 


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#33 Parker51

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 19:15

Price is not a product of the laws of supply and demand, exclusively, and with many items, not at all.
The laws of supply and demand best are applied and function in regard to commodities.
Whenever there are other factors involved, such as Is the case of Fine Pens, especially Fine Fountain Pens, other factors come into play, such as indications of true newness, condition, completeness, service, guarantee, customization and adjustment. Sometimes it is not simply a matter of who has the lowest price for a given item, sometime, dare I say, frequently, with expensive items, it is the reputation of the seller, and their willingness to stand behind the purchase, provide good, or better quality service, and make the purchasing process both pleasant, and respectful to all parties.

Edited by Parker51, 09 August 2013 - 19:17.


#34 cbaytan

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 19:42

I know nothing about these pens, but that pen makes me wonder how it feels when holding. This is the worst section shape I've ever seen, gradual stepping, two metal rings on the top and bottom. Can be hold comfortably? But everybody is praising this pen here, interesting. I am learning.

 

Or king is just nekkid?


Edited by cbaytan, 09 August 2013 - 19:43.

One boring blue, one boring black 1mm thickness at most.... 

Then there are Fountain Pens with gorgeous permanent inks..


#35 jar

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 22:55

I know nothing about these pens, but that pen makes me wonder how it feels when holding. This is the worst section shape I've ever seen, gradual stepping, two metal rings on the top and bottom. Can be hold comfortably? But everybody is praising this pen here, interesting. I am learning.

 

Or king is just nekkid?

 

The Montparnasse pens were held by the barrel and are very, very comfortable to use. The section is inside the pen and it is not held at all.


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#36 cbaytan

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 23:43

 

The Montparnasse pens were held by the barrel and are very, very comfortable to use. The section is inside the pen and it is not held at all.

Ok, thanks, so I guess  it's a bit flat angle writing pen than averagel.


One boring blue, one boring black 1mm thickness at most.... 

Then there are Fountain Pens with gorgeous permanent inks..


#37 RLTodd

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 23:48

People in the US buy more German Luxury Prestige sedans than American ones.

I think the low end BMW 3 series kind of distorts that statistic.  Frankly, if I was going to buy one of those ego-mobiles, I would buy a Buick.  You can get a Buick fixed in any small one horse town in the States.  Mercedes, BMW, or Porsche, not so easy, might have to have it trucked to a large metropolitan area.

 

On the original topic, I don't think there are that many Dupont collectors around.  I believe  it is a very thin market so they are probably very picky.


Edited by RLTodd, 09 August 2013 - 23:52.

YMMV

#38 quinden

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 00:01

If I'd had the money I might have bought it; I really like the lacquer-over-guilloche treatment, and I've been happy with the Duponts that I have so far.

Maybe I'll get lucky and the seller will relist it with a lower price :)
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#39 jar

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 00:41

Ok, thanks, so I guess  it's a bit flat angle writing pen than averagel.

 

Not really. It is a pretty normal writing angle, just a bigger than many place for your fingers.


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#40 elysee

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 06:07

One reason that the pen did not sell is that the person searching for an S.T. Dupont Chairman did not see it on eBay. When the right person comes along, the pen will sell.

I have owned the large S.T. Dupont Montparnasse ballpoint pen in green Chinese lacquer for close to fifteen years. Since I wanted the matching fountain pen, my ballpoint has been sitting in a pen case awaiting its mate all that time. Finally, in March, I found and was able to purchase (win) the matching like-new S.T. Dupont Montparnasse fountain pen in green Chinese lacquer as well as the matching thin ballpoint pen (also in green Chinese lacquer). Incredibly, my timing was perfect for these since no one else bid either beyond what I was willing/able to pay. I had tried to purchase each during the past and was outbid by others every time. These purchases were meant to be and, even better, the condition of each of these pens was far better than that of the pens on which I was outbid in the past.

If I were interested in an S.T. Dupont Chairman, I would not have bid on this pen due to the price as well as the condition. While the pen is listed as basically not used, it has many fine scratches in the gold sections and the lacquer seems dull. My green Chinese lacquer pens -- all three -- do not have the multitude of scratches in the gold sections that this pen does and their lacquer finishes are shiny and scratch-free rather than dull. I do not see the pen in question as mint and, thus, would not consider bidding if I were in the market for the pen.

Edited by elysee, 11 August 2013 - 06:10.







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