Pelikan M605 V. Pilot Custom 823 V. Sailor 1911 (Realo?)

[lightless]

A trilemma?

 

Hello everyone,

 

I'm trying to decide between these three appealing pens. I'm looking to buy them from a nibmeister, so out of the box nib QC isn't really a concern. I have a few worries for each of these pens, though:

 

 

For the Pelikan (Fine nib), corrosion of the section trim ring, which I've seen a few comments about. It's also the most expensive of these three, and I sometimes get a little miffed when I look at how much less Pelikans were a few years ago, and start wishing I had come across fountain pens earlier (or never at all, lol!)

 

 

For the Pilot (Medium nib), I'm worried that it might be a tad heavy for me. I've never written with any pens that weigh around 20g unposted, but I know my Capless tires me out if I write non-stop, though that's 10g heavier than the 823. The Pelikan and the Sailor are lighter, which I find attractive.

 

 

For the Sailor (Medium nib), it worries me that it might be a little short unposted, but from what I've seen it's probably about a millimeter shorter at most than the Lamy 2000, which is a pen that I can write with uncomfortably unposted. The premium for the piston filling version seems a little high, but there's something dignified about a pen you don't have to open up to fill.

 

 

It probably seems a little silly to fuss over it so much, but I won't be making another purchase like this for a while. I'd be grateful for any feedback or comments you guys could throw my way.

Edited July 20, 2013 by lightless

[tarheel1]

The pilot and sailor realo are the size of the m800.

[TMLee]

My opinion ....

 

Select based on writing comfort, since this issue seems to be foremost on your mind in what I can gather from your post.

 

I don't have a M605 but I do have a M620.

i also have a C823

and the capless. (agree its heavy for long periods)

 

I am very impressed with the C823. (you can search the many reviews)

It's great on the following counts :

- great balance

- great nib !!!! (large , springy - I refitted mine with a <Sutab> stub nib - fantastic )

- great ink capacity

- (no metal ring to corrode , if that's your worry)

- Japanese (high quality) fit and finish.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the corrosion or aesthetics , better to get a good writer (in terms of nib and egonomics) - it's a wiser approach - this I have come to learn from the more experienced fpners here

 

Edit :

Yes the Sailor (M) is smallish.

Look up the large version.

Sailor nibs are incredibly smooth but hard as nails !!!

 

 

Edited July 20, 2013 by TMLee

[lightless]

@tarheel1

 

I thought the Realo was a little shorter than the M800 (both uncapped)?

 

@TMLee

 

Yep, comfort's foremost!

 

Thank you, that's great to hear about the C823!

 

Oh, whoops! I put the nib size in parentheses which is misleading; I meant the Sailor 1911 full size, I'll edit the OP.

[tarheel1]

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt290/tooflogged/SailorRealo1911028.jpg

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt290/tooflogged/SailorRealo1911024.jpg

 

Borrowed these. Pretty much same size as the m800 and mb146

[pajaro]

I would buy a Pilot rather than either of the others.

 

Had a Sailor. 1911 M. It would have been quite satisfactory had it been my first pen, and I didn't buy any more.

 

Have had Pelikans, M1000, M805, M800, M640, M605, M400, M250, M200. They write well, and, as before, if I hadn't had other pens I might have stopped with ones I kept, the M2xx and M400s. I don't like the shape of Pelikans, it reminds me of Parker Duofolds. Don't like the Duofold either; it reminds me of Pelikans.

 

I have had various pilots. The Vanishing Point and some kind of MB 146 sized Pilot. Nice, I liked the way it wrote. It went off to someone else in a trade, and I discovered that much less expensive Cross Solos were made by Pilot. I actually liked the Solos better.

 

Actually any would do, and you might eventually try all three.

[whitedot]

Of the three, the Pilot wins hands-down, for reasons already mentioned.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Learn to post your pens, and a whole world opens up for you.

Don't post your pens and there are only a few Large vintage pens then of interest and you then are condemned to using Large and Over size modern pens.

 

For the Pelican...get a silver trim one ...or keep sending the pen back to Pelikan for new trim.

Got any idea what ink ate the trim?...in I have read some one had a problem(perhaps two someones...didn't notice 4 someones with a problem), but have not read everyone or even many has that problem. I hang out in the Pelikan section...and don't read anything of this trim problem.

I have a 605 with silver trim. So I'd kept my eyes open.

 

In that I post mostly...I have no problem with the 600...a nice light and lively pen. I can see writing with it with out a cap for a short note.....but for a long haul, would of course post it....the balance is better.

The 605 is a medium-long pen, like a P-51, those and standard sized pens IMO should be posted, as designed; in the balance is there. It is not there un posted.

[Bigeddie]

An interesting one.

 

Pilot Custom 823: This pen is fantastic, I recently sold a MB146 to buy another one. They are a little hevier but they are a step bigger so they feel nice and balanced. Of the three I would say that this is the one to go for if you are going to use it for long periods. The vac fill is a nice novelty too, it works well and holds more ink than the others, much more than the Sailor. The nib is very good, larger than the others and nice and smooth (in the M, F on the way to me )

 

Sailor 1911 (Realo?): This is a tricky one, I have both the 1911 and the Realo versions. My preference would be for the non-Realo. It is a little longer in the body and on mine the non-Realo nib has some spring to it, where as the Realo nib is a nail. I have them both in H-M nibs and they are both beautifully smooth. Of the 3 (4) the 1911 is my favourite to pick up and write with.

 

Pelikan M605 (M600 pictured): This is the one of the three that I use least, It writes well enough but it doesn't have the charm of the other pens. The M600 nib is firm and smooth, but compared to the other two it lacks character. The corrosion of the section trim is a problem. I have had 3 M600s over the years, my current one is in pretty good condition but the problem is now visible.

 

My head says buy the Pilot, my heart says by the 1911 (non-Realo).

 

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3810/9324256645_9d0995afc4_z.jpg

IMAGE_65A86864-24F7-4AF5-BBF6-FE05BD8A723F.JPG by Bigeddie100, on Flickr

 

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3680/9324258181_03d748e107_z.jpg

IMAGE_65A23F47-D3D4-4938-97B0-0AFE5628F07E.JPG by Bigeddie100, on Flickr

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/9324259713_3e775c77fe_z.jpg

IMAGE_457B8B5F-C025-46A7-B585-82452C176175.JPG by Bigeddie100, on Flickr

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7337/9327056276_190460c37f_z.jpg

IMAGE_1663C16A-1E7D-45B8-9AF4-2A55347B1C07.JPG by Bigeddie100, on Flickr

[UK Mike]

Some of the comments just show the diversity of opinions when it comes to fountain pens.

 

I find modern Pelikan nibs very hard although they are also smooth. Do not expect much spring in the nib at all. However, if you ever had to sell your pen, the Pelikan would hold its value better.

 

The Pilot 823 is a nice pen although the nib sizing is confusing for Europeans and the current translucent barrel version doesn't appeal to me at all. The nib is ok though and that is what matters. Finish is ok but mine is not up to true luxury standards, it still has a few signs of being made by a cheap-pen maker.

 

My choice would be the Sailor. I have the 1911 full size (non Realo) and contrary to what has been written by others, I find the Sailor nib has more springiness than any of its rivals. (21k nib version). It is also extremely smooth, flow is excellent and it will write with the lightest of touches on the paper. It is also manufactured to a very high standard. I change inks quite often and prefer the easy-cleaning and flexibility of a "removable piston filler" - converter pen.

 

My personal recommendation therefore would be to go with the Sailor unless you really need the slightly greater ink capacity of the Pilot.

Edited July 20, 2013 by UK Mike

[UK Mike]

@ Bigeddie - I was writing as you were posting. I agree with your comments entirely and it seems we came to a similar conclusion.

 

[parnesh]

I don't have a Sailor or Pelikan with a gold nib so I can only comment on the Pilot 823. I have Black one with a M nib. For the price this has got to be one of the best pens going around (I got mine for ~ $220 US). Classic cigar shape with a modern twist (translucent barrel). Very smooth, large and springy nib. Great ink capacity and good construction quality.

[parnesh]

My personal recommendation therefore would be to go with the Sailor unless you really need the slightly greater ink capacity of the Pilot.

 

Not discounting your recommendation but the ink capacity of the Pilot (2.2ml+) is > 2x over a realo (1ml) and > 3x over sailor converter (0.7 ml).

[The Good Captain]

I have all three and if pushed to pick one, it would have to be the Pelikan. And actually, no-one seems to have mentioned that they do have readily-interchangeable nibs too.

[nicholasyeo]

I am inclined towards the Pelikan since you are getting the nib tuned. Otherwise, a Sailor! I find the 823 dry at times... even with the reservoir unlocked.

 

[lightless]

Wow! A big thank you to everyone for all of your advice, it's helping me come closer to choosing.

 

@ Bo Bo Olson

I've read a few comments that the trim corrodes over time as the plating gets nicked away and the underlying metal comes into contact with ink and other sundry sources of moisture, which turns some people off from buying pens with section trim. The Blue/Silver special edition M605 is very elegant.

 

I tend to use even a Lamy Safari unposted, but a tiny bit of weight at the back so a pen sits in the webbing between thumb and forefinger does tend to make pens more comfortable.

@Bigeddie

The photo comparisons are immensely helpful, thank you for taking the time to take those pictures!

 

Ah, I didn't know that the Realo was shorter than the regular 1911. If anything, Sailor should've made it a little longer. That certainly orients me towards the C/C 1911. Aside from the price, the section trim corrosion is my main worry with the Pelikan. I tend to pause a lot with my writing, but I do sometimes just let it all flow out. Ink capacity isn't too much of a concern for me, since this pen will be staying at home, though it doesn't really hurt to have more ink inside.

 

Haha, I'm a bit of a romantic, so I tend to listen to the heart How would you compare the springiness of the 1911 versus the 823? By character, do you mean the springiness combined with the way each of their tippings write?

@UK Mike

I sometimes start changing inks frequently, myself, so it's good to have a pen that's easy to clean . I'll be using this pen at home, so I don't really need the the higher ink capacity of the 823, but it's a nice bonus for a pen with such an acclaimed nib and body.

@The Good Captain

Mmm, that's true. What pushes you towards the Pelikan?

@nicholasyeo

Will tuning make all the difference for the Pelikan?

 

[The Good Captain]

I like Pelikans; pure and simple. The Sailor was a pen that I could also try out at our local shop. The Pilot was a whim; bought totally from the reviews here and about, from America. I bit the bullet and paid the VAT and handling charges but even then it was still probably cheaper than if I'd been able to get it here.

I like them all but Pelikans still win the day, and I've a few of other models/sizes too. The 800/805 being the biggest and I suppose the 140 the smallest but the 100/101 are close behind.

[stevekolt]

I have a number of FP's across many manufacturers. I bought my first Pelikan last week, and liked it so much I ordered 3 more.

[RJJ]

Ditto on Stevekolt to the nth degree. I got my first Pelikans last week as well

[WaskiSquirrel]

For a long time, the Pelikan m800 was my grail, but when it came time to finally buy my pen, I bought the Pilot 823 instead, and I'm very glad. What an absolutely amazing pen! I love its vacuum fill mechanism, I love its understated, classy looks, I love the way it writes, I love the way it feels...I recently finished writing a novel, mostly with this pen. I loved how I could write and forget that I was actually writing. The hardest part was when I spent 4 weeks working and living away from home and decided to leave this pen at home out of fear of losing it. I missed it!

 

The Pilot Custom 823 is an amazing pen, but I did run into one fault: it did not work well with my favorite ink! My favorite ink is Noodler's Black, and it seems to cause the pen to quit writing. I would write for a bit and then have to shake the pen to get it going again. Once I switched to any other black ink, no problem. There must be something about this particular version of black because my other vac-filler (a TWSBI 700) has the exact same problem with Noodler's Black. Both are fine with any other black.