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Rotring 600 Visual Guide

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121 replies to this topic

#21 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:43

Just a quick question: Does anybody know of a forum similar to the FPN but about non Fountain Pens (Rollerballs and Ballpoints and/or Mechanical Pencils)? If got a few things I would like to find out about Rotring Ballpoints, especially the 600 Gold Ballpoint, but don't know where to start.

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#22 attika89

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 17:02

Just a quick question: Does anybody know of a forum similar to the FPN but about non Fountain Pens (Rollerballs and Ballpoints and/or Mechanical Pencils)? If got a few things I would like to find out about Rotring Ballpoints, especially the 600 Gold Ballpoint, but don't know where to start.

I don't really know about such forums, but I think you could just post it here in the Brand Focus section as well.



#23 Filipson

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 00:03

I have seen some Rotring "newton" pens with "Germany" laser-incscribed on the pen/pocket-clip (where the pocket clip connects to the pen shaft).  But some Rotring "newton" pens do not have any laser-inscription on the pen/pocket-clip. 

 

Sorry I don't have any pictures. If I can find one, I will post a picture of what I mean. 


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#24 Dillo

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 14:03

Hi,

 

I don't know if there is such a forum, but you can probably post on the main forum on fpn called "First Stop." Some people ask about rollerball, ballpoints, and mechanical pencils there. I remember when they changed the name to "Writing Instruments" to let people know that it's not strictly fountain pen only. Maybe someone here would know something about it.

 

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#25 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:42

Important public service announcement:
There is a spreadsheet by LH Gottlieb made in 2009 going around listing all of the 600 variants. This spreadsheet is wildly inaccurate and everything else is completely wrong. At the end there is a part about how you can remove the feed of the fountain pen.

 

This is completely wrong and you will destroy your pen if you try this.

The feed is inserted from the back, you will rip it apart if you try to pull it out through the front.



#26 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 17:16

Here is a quick sketch I did of what the feed looks like:

fpn_1375895575__nib.jpg

 

outer shell (brass, anodized)         inner shell (plastic)          feed and nib           glue

 

 

I tried to get a real picture of the build by destroying a broken section I had around, but it didnt work:

fpn_1375895772__nib2.jpg


Edited by JPS_Rotring, 07 August 2013 - 17:16.


#27 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 10 August 2013 - 19:20

On a german message board other rotring lovers say that the feed on the Gold-Versions is slightly different and can be pulled out, it might even be necessary to change the nib.



#28 flight878

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:42

So this is what happens when I take a hiatus from FPN.  Very nice thread.  I'm trying to complete my Rotring 600 collection and I've learned much myself about this pen's history.  I've written here extensively about my findings but cannot find those posts!

 

Regarding the Gottlieb Document, as you mentioned OP, there are several errors.  For example, there never existed a Lava pencil with a knurled grip.

 

At least in North America, the Rotring 600 without knurling that were sold through Sanford was marketed as the "Rotring 600 Newton;" the "Rotring Newton" was a subsequent ugly perversion that had a shiny chrome finish with a barrel available in black or copper brown.

 

As for the feed, it seems some versions do have a removable nib, however.  I own a "transitional" Rotring 600 (like the Levenger ones without the logo), and I can remove the nib by pulling it.  I've had to give my pen a deep clean one time.


Edited by flight878, 24 August 2013 - 06:03.

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#29 betsypreston

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:06

Wow!  So much fun!

 

Your English is fantastic.  Kudos.

 

I love love loved my 600 Trio Lava.  I used it for years at work (maybe 5 or 6) all day every day.  Then the internal sleeve which moved a peg to switch between modes broke.  :crybaby: By then the pen was no longer made.  When I sent it in to be repaired, they sent me back some much cheaper lower quality multi pen.  Quatro?  It didn't hold a candle to my 600.  I had them send back my 600, in case I ever find some way to repair it.  And then I stocked up on a bunch of the silver and black versions (never did get another Lava Trio :unsure: ) while the getting was still good.  I got a few of the pencil-only and ball-point-only and also a few fps.

 

None of them gnurled, tho.  >shudder<  I really really really really (really really) don't like gnurling.  It grinds into my fingers and leaves disturbing impressions.

 

Question: what's the deal with the Newtons that you mention, and the completely different ones with the goofy cartridge inserting system and angled cap?

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item5d4260d2a9

 

Why are two completely different pens both called a "Newton"?

 

P.S. I also adore the Core. But I know that's a commmmmmpleeeeeeeetely different thing.



#30 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 14:16

None of them gnurled, tho.  >shudder<  I really really really really (really really) don't like gnurling.  It grinds into my fingers and leaves disturbing impressions.

If they lack the knurling, they are Newtons, not 600.

Question: what's the deal with the Newtons that you mention, and the completely different ones with the goofy cartridge inserting system and angled cap?
 
http://www.ebay.com/...=item5d4260d2a9
 
Why are two completely different pens both called a "Newton"?


Because as it often happens, if companies are bought by bigger companies they then tend to try to screw customers over by using a well known name and slapping it on an inferior product. The "ugly" Newton currently lives on as the "Parker Facet" in an attempt to screw even more customers ... Sorry for my language, but this kind of sellout really grinds my gears.

#31 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 14:17

[size=3]As for the feed, it seems some versions do have a removable nib

All versions have a removable nib, not all have removable feed.


I own a "transitional" Rotring 600 (like the Levenger ones without the logo)

There is only a transitional version between the "orignal" rotring 600 and the last generation levenger 600, this version has the knurled grip, nib size indicator and already has the cap retainer buttons only later seen on the Newton. Everything after that is Newton.

#32 cruise

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 20:47

quite interesting thread



#33 betsypreston

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 01:54

If they lack the knurling, they are Newtons, not 600.


Because as it often happens, if companies are bought by bigger companies they then tend to try to screw customers over by using a well known name and slapping it on an inferior product. The "ugly" Newton currently lives on as the "Parker Facet" in an attempt to screw even more customers ... Sorry for my language, but this kind of sellout really grinds my gears.

Huh.  Who decides that?  My original boxes, the three that I checked for all non-knurled pens, say Trio.  And the enclosed documentation only refers to the 600.  No Newton anywhere on any of the packaging or paperwork.


Edited by betsypreston, 30 August 2013 - 01:54.


#34 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 30 August 2013 - 19:09

Trio and Newton is something different. Trio is the moniker for multipens, there is a Rotring 600 Trio and a Rotring Newton Trio. But I can say with certainty that there is no Rotring 600 Lava of any kind in existence. They Lava finish was only available 2 years after the Newton came out, its not listed in the 1997 nor 1998 catalogue, but it is in the 1999 catalogue. The 1996 catalogue still lists the original knurled Rotring 600. It might be that a shop or reseller advertised it as a Rotring 600 successor, or even as a "new" Rotring 600, but I have never seen even one single document by Rotring saying "Rotring 600 Newton" or something alike. Thats because they completely did away with numbering the pens, the only pen that stayed in production without a change was the Rotring 400 and it became the Esprit starting 1997.

If you don't believe me I can send you scans of every catalogue page, but I won't put them up here for everyone because I don't know if I am allowed because of copyright ...

#35 betsypreston

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 02:27

Well, I used a Lava 600 Trio for 6+ years.  I still have the broken parts, but I don't have time to take a picture (not to mention I'd have to find the pen on my disaster of a desk - being broken I don't keep it "at hand").  It is exactly like the same pens I have in silver and black finishes that came in marked boxes.  And none of them have gnurled grips.  I got the Lava in a Rotring box from an office supply store (either Office Max or Office Depot, can't remember which).  It's got the red ring, and I believe that it says Rotring on the clip.  And, again, it exactly matches the same pens I have in silver and black.  I left the company where I used to use it in 1999, so I probably got the pen some time around 1996 (it didn't break until after I left).  And since I have other non-Trio 600 ballpoints and pencils in Lava, I am familiar with the finish and it is definitely Lava.

 

I'd say a pen in the hand trumps a catalog! 

 

Not trying to be provocative, I just HAVE the pen which is pretty hard to ignore!


Edited by betsypreston, 31 August 2013 - 02:28.


#36 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:00

Sorry, I'm not trying to be provocative either, but I'm pretty sure you are mixing things up. Especially that you bought a Lava in 1996. That is impossible.

To make things clear:
600 = knurled grip, nib size indicator
600 Levenger transitiional = knurled grip, nib size indicator, holding lugs
Newton = smooth grip, not indicator, shiny plastic parts, Lava-Finish

Rotring Website, 22. October 1997:
http://web.archive.o...list_newto.html

"Alle rotring Newton Schreibgeräte sind in mattsilberner und in mattschwarzer Ausführung erhältlich."
All rotring Newton writings sets are available in matt-silver and matt-black.

And it stays that way until Rotring was bought in 1998:

Rotring Website, 14. June 1998:
http://web.archive.o.../c_newton.html/

"Jetzt mit neuer Oberfläche: rotring Newton Lava Kugelschreiber ... Auch erhältlich als Füllfederhalter in sieben Federbreiten, Rollerball, Feinminenstift und trio-pen."
Now with new finish: rotring Newton Lava Ballpoint ... also available as fountain pen in seven nib sizes, rollerball, mechanical pencil and trio-pen.

 

The Rotring Website was first seen online in April 1997. The last catalogue from 1996 is the "Gesamtkatalog" = Complete catalogue. The first catalogue after that was the customer catalogue "introducing the new Rotring Newton" and completely dropping the 600.

 



#37 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 08:05

Forgot to mention why it is impossible to buy one in 1996: The machine used to get the lava finish onto the pens is a machine used by Parker, first collaboration of Rotring with Parker happened after Rotring was bought because then Parker and Rotring share the same parent company, Sanford. That why the newest "ugly" complete plastic version of the Newton uses a Parker nib and after Rotring completely dropped the fountain pen business the Newton lived on as the Parker Facet



#38 dogfog

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 17:01

Thanks for the link to the archived Rotring site. Very cool to see.

 

So how would you distinguish in name or terminology between this style of Newton (which Montgomery Pens identifies as a 600) (http://montgomerypen...roduct_id=14747) and this (presumably newer) style of Newton (http://montgomerypen...product_id=7088)?


Edited by dogfog, 31 August 2013 - 17:03.


#39 alfredop

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 17:34

Since these are my favorite pens, I cannot stay away from a Rotring 600 topics. These are preliminary drawings and scans of a catalogue

 

rotring600-mockup.jpg

 

rotring600-final-inside.jpg

 

rotring600-final-cover.jpg

 

And these are photos of my collection

 

DSCN1877.jpg

 

DSCN1865.jpg

 

DSCN1836.jpg

 

Alfredo



#40 JPS_Rotring

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 22:26

So how would you distinguish in name or terminology between this style of Newton (which Montgomery Pens identifies as a 600) (http://montgomerypen...roduct_id=14747) and this (presumably newer) style of Newton (http://montgomerypen...product_id=7088)?


I like to pretend the later one doesn't exist at all. But joking aside, I would call the cheaper one Parker Facet, Sanford Newton or something to that effect. It is not a Rotring but a product made by Sanford where they slapped the Rotring name on it.





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