Vegan Alternative To Shellac

[praxim]

I that is why tamiya ended the line with a balaclavad (evil) smiley.

[Brianm_14]

Why don't you give your friend a nice dip pen? They are fun, easy to clean, you can get flex points, broad points and all kind of nibs which do all kinds of neat things. Or an eyedropper? No sacs to worry about there. Pistons might fill the bill as well. there are a lot of ways to avoid shellac and animal products.

 

A great answer. More so than may appear at first! It is more than merely clever. While I am not a vegan, I sincerely appreciate that vegans contribute to a diversity of thought which can make us more deeply caring in our attitude toward our treatment of sentient, and non-sentient organisms (such as insects). Indeed, this is inherent in my credo as a professional biologist.

 

While I fear this shellac point may push a point to that of ridicule for some, does it hurt us to be resourceful? Let us each tend our own garden, as Voltaire wisely suggested, and extend that to making sure that others may tend theirs.

[zap210]

As many people mentioned, shellac has withstood the test of time, but I do have some possible alternate suggestions (with caveats).

 

- With a tight fitting rubber sac, not a loose one, very thin thread can be wrapped several times over the end, exactly like boat rigging. Too tight and the thread will eventually cut into the sac. The binding will look like a tiny compressed spring when finished.

 

- Very thin wall heat shrink tubing. One must be careful applying heat to any pen! Last year I had to heat up a Pelikan P1. Barely warmed it, but the barrel developed microscopic cracks that leaked ink. Could not see them even with a loupe. It just goes to show that even though I have repaired thousands of pens since the 60's I still manage to destroy one every once in a while.

 

- Hylomar blue. It does contain a solvent and can melt certain materials, particularly if one has no experience using it, but I use it more than shellac these days. I always use a piece of test material first and check the results before I commit to using it.

 

Zap

[BaronWulfraed]

Off the wall... I wonder if the "gum media" in a microscope slide preparation kit would be useful.

[Scrawler]

Off the wall... I wonder if the "gum media" in a microscope slide preparation kit would be useful.

Gum Arabic (acacia resin) is water soluble, which helps clean it off slides, but it might not survive continued exposure to water based inks and cleaning.

[inkstainedruth]

Gum Arabic (acacia resin) is water soluble, which helps clean it off slides, but it might not survive continued exposure to water based inks and cleaning.

 

Not to mention that if it does dissolve into the ink, it can end up gunking up your feed in various nasty ways. Which is why dip pen only ink like Higglns should NOT be used in a fountain pen....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[BaronWulfraed]

Mea culpa -- I'd lost the sense that this is for attaching a sac... I was thinking something to firm up a loose section/barrel joint.

 

Thought the "gum media" I was referencing may not be as water soluble, since it is meant for permanent mounting of microscope slides.

Edited December 20, 2018 by BaronWulfraed

[Scylax]

Thanks for all the answers guys- sounds like it's tough to find an alternative! I'm glad I'm not 'into' vintage pens! My interest is solely in the ink windows on my Conids which I believe are attached with it? I bought my kingsizes in the demonstrator versions believing they would not have such a separate part, but now I'm thinking that's probably not the case, and certainly not on my Giraffe. I would love to hear more from brianm- you mention these insects aren't sentient - how has that been determined? I'd genuinely be interested to know! But mostly I want to know if i can somehow replace the shellac (well, pay someone to replace - i don't have the skills) on those specific pens.

[Ron Z]

Keep in mind that in many cases, and with small pens in particular, the difference in diameter between the sac nipple the the part that fits snug in the barrel is little more than the wall thickness of the sac. There isn't much room for anything but a sac and thread, let alone thicker things like rubber bands and heat shrink tubing. Failing to keep that in mind could lead to a cracked barrel when you push the section into the pen. No adhesive between the sac and the sac nipple can cause the pen to leak. I've seen it many times.

 

If you do not want to use shellac, which I consider to be the best adhesive, I would use an RTV silicone rubber cement, which is what we use when we secure a silicone sac. I prefer and recommend the use of one that is a non-corrosive type of RTV because it releases an alcohol instead of a keytone, but if you let it sit in the open over night so that the RTV has time to cure, you should be OK.

[entertainment]

Thanks for all the answers guys- sounds like it's tough to find an alternative! I'm glad I'm not 'into' vintage pens! My interest is solely in the ink windows on my Conids which I believe are attached with it? I bought my kingsizes in the demonstrator versions believing they would not have such a separate part, but now I'm thinking that's probably not the case, and certainly not on my Giraffe. I would love to hear more from brianm- you mention these insects aren't sentient - how has that been determined? I'd genuinely be interested to know! But mostly I want to know if i can somehow replace the shellac (well, pay someone to replace - i don't have the skills) on those specific pens.

 

Have you asked Fountainbel about what he uses and whether there are any viable alternatives?

[Stylomeister]

A little late into this thread but if you noticed the comment about fly hooks then this is the answer and how I secure silicon sacs that dont stick with shellac (some argue they do). Essentially some strong thread and tied it in the same way you tie a fish hook - its very effective and should hold tight... if its good enough to hold a trout.

[Scylax]

 

Have you asked Fountainbel about what he uses and whether there are any viable alternatives?

 

Not yet. I wanted to gain some knowledge of any potential alternatives and difficulties first! What's the etiquette - would it be considered rude to message him on this site?

[Larry Barrieau]

https://reducing-suffering.org/insect-suffering-silk-shellac-carmine-insect-products/#Per-capita_bugs_killed-2For those of you who like numbers, here are some on the deaths of insects.

 

 

I won't lose any sleep over these stats. I don't weep as I stomp ants in my kitchen. And I will think it a fine thing when someone comes up with a safe pesticide and trillions of mosquitoes are killed on a daily basis to save humans.

[Tweel]

Thought the "gum media" I was referencing may not be as water soluble, since it is meant for permanent mounting of microscope slides.

 

Were you thinking of Canada balsam?

[FarmBoy]

I find it interesting that shellac is the main component in confectioners glaze.

[Tweel]

Besides the shellac, Boston Baked Beans candy also contains carnauba wax (sounds like they're finishing furniture!).

 

Are there any natural latex adhesives that could be used to sac a pen?

[Ron Z]

OK, just in case it got missed. The stuff works, it isn't made out of animal anything, and is much better than rubber cement, which really doesn't work. And no, I don't know of any "natural" material that isn't also an animal product that will properly seal and secure a sac.

 

 

If you do not want to use shellac, which I consider to be the best adhesive, I would use an RTV silicone rubber cement, which is what we use when we secure a silicone sac. I prefer and recommend the use of one that is a non-corrosive type of RTV because it releases an alcohol instead of a keytone, but if you let it sit in the open over night so that the RTV has time to cure, you should be OK.

[tamiya]

Any particular brand you'd recommend Ron?

 

Downunder I've mainly bought Permatex RTV "oxygen sensor safe"

 

 

Been looking for Hylomar blue too, haven't yet found it retailed where I can see it, but I thought that's more of a gasket maker than a gluey sealant.

[Ron Z]

I had to go back and look at my notes. Its been 5 1/2 years since I looked into this, and in the interval I quit using the silicone sacs because of the gas permeability issues, so the silicone I had expired long ago and got tossed.

 

The common RTV is an acetoxy compound, and releases acetic acid when curing. This is why it is considered to be a corrosive RTV. That isn't the issue with pens, but the release of acetic acid around celluloid could be, so it may be good to avoid it, or leave it open to air until it cures - roughly 24 hours..

 

So I went looking for a good non-corrosive RTV, and had a long conversation with the folks at Loctite. There are other forms of RTV curing materials, but the one recommended is a Alcoxy RTV. This releases alcohols - mostly a combination of methyl and ethyl alcohol. Loctite makes one called 5040 self leveling RTV. It's a bit pricey though, and you'll need to order it. I found it at a number of sites, including Amazon.

Another possibility is Loctite 598, which is an oxime cure RTV, and is much cheaper than the 5040. You can find it on ebay. This releases methyl-methyl keytones, but the quantity would be rather small in this application.

 

If you're not sure about what a product releases, take a look at the technical data sheets. There's a wealth of information for those who take the time to dig for it.

[BaronWulfraed]

 

Were you thinking of Canada balsam?

 

That's probably it -- the old Edmund slide preparation kit I have just labeled the bottle "gum media"