Vegan Alternative To Shellac

[dcwaites]

Sorry Ron. I will just refer back to the epoxy we use when adhering a fishing rod tip to the top of the rod. Everyone breaks these and to remove its the same heating process. The part I don't know is how much heat or at what point the epoxy starts to melt vs shellac. The good news is there is a ton of data on the web and most manufacturers will send free samples.

 

In my experience, and I'm sure Ron Z will back me up, shellac softens at a much lower temperature than epoxy. To heat up a Parker 51 hood to the point that you could soften epoxy would destroy the hood.

 

OTOH, I thought that there may be a Loctite product that might suit, but even the weakest (Loctite 222) may be too strong for something like a Parker 51 hood.

Perhaps someone could try it out on a Hero 616???

[Inkysloth]

Looks like I'll be sticking with (badoom tisch) shellac for sac-sticking, and finding a nice piston filler for my vegan chum I know she uses a C/C pen of some description, but I wanted to find her a lovely vintage pen with a "proper" filling system.

 

I do find it interesting that, for all the advances in chemistry that are made, there are some things that are not worth doing synthetically (I'm sure a synthetic shellac, with all of natural shellac's characteristics could be created, but I suspect it would be so costly as to be not worth the bother).

[NeilS]

 

OTOH, I thought that there may be a Loctite product that might suit, but even the weakest (Loctite 222) may be too strong for something like a Parker 51 hood.

Perhaps someone could try it out on a Hero 616???

 

Don't do it !!!!! Loctite 222 and most of the other Loctite thread sealers are disasterous on plastics. One of our workers thought it would be a good idea to use it on a batch of units we make, caused catastrophic failures, fortunately before the product left the factory!

[dontheo]

It's mot really a synthetic issue. Your goal is not to use anything from animal products. So it would have to come form plant decomposition. Epoxy and shellac can melt at 70 degres C but epoxy is out because it is petroleum based which means animals.

 

You would need to go to a coal or hydro carbon solution from plants. Now there is tar, which might not be pleasant to work with and you would have to be careful of the source or pine pitch or rosin.

 

You will not have problems with rosin if you buy the good type that is made for violens and other fine stringed instruments. 7 bucks on the bay.

 

In practicality shellac is excrement. I believe that she might be an "enviromental vegan" where the premise is the mom use of harvested animal products. You might want to check with her as shellac is just a waste product from the insect. She is going to be ingesting animal waste product with vegtables. Even the USDA allows a certain amount of animal feces to be allowed in products, like rice.

[OldGriz]

You will not have problems with rosin if you buy the good type that is made for violens and other fine stringed instruments. 7 bucks on the bay.

 

I would advise you to heed the words of one of the best and most respected pen restorers in the business who has had more pens cross his workbench in a year than most of us have seen in a lifetime (and that includes some of us who are also restorers)

"Ron Zorn:

Rosin based thread sealant can not be used to secure a sac. It has no adhesive properties as such, other than being sticky. But since it does not fully harden, and releases at a much lower temperature, if you use it to secure a sac it will not hold.

Be careful using pure rosin. I make the rosin sealant that I use, and can tell you that the temperature needed to turn rosin liquid is hot enough to melt plastic (yes, I've measured it). A hard rubber section may be OK but I wouldn't risk it with a celluloid section.

I hate to say it, but shellac is your best choice. Finger nail polish will fail, and the acetone in has the potential to damage some pens. A silicone RTV will work, but you should use a non-corrosive alcoxy silicone, which can be expensive. Regular RTV silicone releases acetic acid as it cures.

Shellac finds it's way into a lot of surprising places, like candy. "Confectioners glaze" is shellac. It's often used as coatings for pills as well.."

[PDW]

Yes. We ate Oscar. Best hamburgers I've ever eaten.

 

 

You didn't say whether Oscar was a pet or a neighbour ...

[Flounder]

It's starting to bug me that I can't remember in re: the o-ring alternative thing. Can anyone help? I remember it being an online pen magazine half in Engish and half in Italian, with excellent photography.

[ravantra]

Oh no I just discovered all our pens are made of PEOPLE!

 

A wink to Soylent Green.

[inkstainedruth]

Everything we eat/consume/use will offend someone. There are people who are horrified about lamb, pig, cow, horse, camel, goat, turtle, eel, choko, okra, rhubarb, pumpkin tips*, broccoli**, brussel sprouts, and even Soylent Green.

 

All we can do is live and eat according to our own consciences, and take care not to offend those around us.***

 

I'm off to chase down and eat a poor defenceless WeetBix for breakfast.

 

 

___________________

*Delicious cooked in freshly scraped coconut milk

**A Presidential favourite...

***That includes not cooking lambs fry anywhere near me.

I'm only horrified by okra if you make *me* eat it. If *you* want to eat it, be my guest. In fact, you can have mine....

Reminds me of an old cartoon from the 1920s, showing a family at their dining room table. The mother says "It's broccoli, dear." and the child's response is "I say it's spinach and I say the hell with it!"

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[fountainbel]

Hi all,

A good alternative to secure a sac on the section nipple is binding the sac tightly with brass wire over the nipple.

I use this method with perfect results when installing silicone sac's.

Note the diameter step between the sac nipple and the section part which goes in the barrel should be large enough to accommodate for the wire. I use 0.3mm copper wire and this works very well.

On the attached picture you can see a sac secured as such.

Hope this helps!

Francis

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/133f4c7f-816c-483d-bab3-6d520b6921a5.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/133f4c7f-816c-483d-bab3-6d520b6921a5.jpg

[veganmark]

hey friend, i feel your pain. I've been vegan for 26 years and shellac is one of those issues I can't get around completely. However, I found a solution that works for me. Basically, I set aside any pens that require new sacs and take them to pen festivals. I won't buy shellac because it goes against my ethics. When I arrive at a pen show I take my pen to a vendor who can repair my pen and explain what I need. Most will gladly accommodate me for a small fee. It's not a perfect solution but I've not had to purchase shellac once.

[Scrawler]

Hi all,

A good alternative to secure a sac on the section nipple is binding the sac tightly with brass wire over the nipple.

I use this method with perfect results when installing silicone sac's.

Note the diameter step between the sac nipple and the section part which goes in the barrel should be large enough to accommodate for the wire. I use 0.3mm copper wire and this works very well.

On the attached picture you can see a sac secured as such.

Hope this helps!

Francis

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/133f4c7f-816c-483d-bab3-6d520b6921a5.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h89/fountainbel/133f4c7f-816c-483d-bab3-6d520b6921a5.jpg

I saw one once bound like this with but with waxed thread very tightly wound for a 5 mm, and tied with surgical precision. It was found in a teachers school desk in the mid 1960s, in a desk that had been put into storage during WWII. The sac was hard and brittle, but still tightly held.

[UK Mike]

I have some really bad news for all sweet-toothed-fountain-pen-owning-vegans out there who don't read the labels - M&Ms use Beeswax!

[Inkysloth]

I have some really bad news for all sweet-toothed-fountain-pen-owning-vegans out there who don't read the labels - M&Ms use Beeswax!

 

I always find it kinda funny when people say stuff like this, like vegans are going to be shocked. The vegans I've known have been the most informed about what's in food. The people who seem the least aware (or least willing to be aware) are the omnivores.

[Scylax]

I know this is resurrecting an old thread, but has there been any further thought/progress on this in the last few years? I don't wish to get into a whole debate about vegan lifestyles and choices again, but I would like to know whether shellac used in a pen to hold in an ink window could be replaced with something else? And how can I identify which modern pens use shellac?

 

Many thanks!

[Charles Rice]

If you have seen "The Revenant", You might know that Old Leonardo is a vegetarian. BUT, there is a scene in the movie where he eats raw liver - REAL raw liver.

[tamiya]

There's dozens of adhesives available at model shops for gluing/welding plastics to plastics... but biggest consideration is - did you want that join to ever be dismantlable again?

 

In my life I've used shellac, used to have to dissolve flakes in metho overnight before varnishing jobs.

 

I've got rosin blocks... above has spoken about melting pure rosin, yep that'll be too hot for pen jobs. But I know powdered rosin can dissolve in some alcohol solvents - I'd assume it'll distill out when the alcohol evaporates. Don't know if it stays gummy though.

 

Closest alternative to shellac IMHO is (you'll love it) the luthiers glue pot.

 

That stuff releases at relatively low temperatures, is weak enough not to permanently bond into wood fibre without ripping bits out, has decent working time before it sets and has been tried & tested for 500 years.

 

But the BIGGEST advantage of both shellac & guitar gum is that FRESH glue applied to a previously glued part will REACTIVATE the existing glue & become one with it. You don't have to totally clean off the old glue, you don't have to lose any material by grinding it down to a clean surface.

 

I have dozens of different glues, solvents & adhesives on hand -afaik none replicate that very property. Apply the glue & it cures, dries or sets... once done its inert & just stays like that forever. Reapplying fresh glue just sits on top of the old layer, with varying levers of adhesion success.

[Scylax]

Thank you. I don't care about dismantling anything again, just wondering if I could get the shellac replaced. And how can I tell which modern pens might use it?

[CS388]

If it is to fix in the ink window, I'd think there are other (vegan friendly) adhesives you could use, as it should not require frequent dismantling for repair/replacement? Which glue(s) to use would depend on the materials used in the pen, so more details would be needed before a specific type/brand could be recommended.

 

I'm not sure how to tell which pens are completely shellac-free. I guess you'd have to investigate each pen on an individual basis? Contact the manufacturer etc. A tedious endeavour, but worth it to hold your principles intact.

 

Good luck.

[BaronWulfraed]

Closest alternative to shellac IMHO is (you'll love it) the luthiers glue pot.

 

That stuff releases at relatively low temperatures, is weak enough not to permanently bond into wood fibre without ripping bits out, has decent working time before it sets and has been tried & tested for 500 years.

 

And probably does not qualify as "vegan" -- if a lacquer made from beetle shells is unwanted, how is a gelatine glue made from animal hooves and hides going to be passable? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue#Hide_glue