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What's A "ladies'-Hand"?

penmanshipvictorian ladies

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30 replies to this topic

#21 thang1thang2

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 23:11

 

MoC was written after Newnham College, Cambridge was founded. So clearly "women weren't expected to write or read much" doesn't apply across the board.

 

I see. My bad, then. I was going off the assumption that the book was based when that thinking still applied universally. I'll shush now and defer to those who have read the books.



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#22 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 23:45

 

18th Century Copperplate Handwriting by Sherwood Carter History

Copperplate evolved in the earliest part of the 18th century due to a need for an efficient commercial hand in England. The "secretary hand" (a cursive variety of Gothic minuscule), the "mixed hand", and the more elegant Italian cancellaresca testeggiata had given way to something plainer and more practical. Two varieties of a new "copperplate" style became common: "round hand," the bolder of the two, was considered appropriate for business use, and "Italian," a lighter and narrower form, was considered the ladies' hand.

 

 

The father may have wished the daughter to be educated to become a ladies companion and with writing to match this position.

 

Quote

"She started the pen in an elephantine march across the sheet. It was a splendid round, bold hand of her own conception, a style that would have stamped a woman as Minerva's own in more recent days. But other ideas reigned then: Henchard's creed was that proper young girls wrote ladies'-hand – nay, he believed that bristling characters were as innate and inseparable a part of refined womanhood as sex itself." (20.14)

 

Elizabeth-Jane's handwriting is very masculine – it's what was described in those days as "round-hand." She taught herself to write and did an excellent job by almost anyone's standards. But back in the day, most people thought that a proper, upper-class young lady should write in "ladies' hand," which was a fancier-looking (and harder to read) script. - http://www.shmoop.com

 

 

 

Makes more sense now. I guess we can chalk up Henchard's disapproval to his own ignorance, not Lizzy-Jane's. 

 

How times have changed, because in Rebecca, Rebecca is exalted above the narrator as more refined and educated, and she has a very bold handwriting with a rather distinctive R. To quote:

 

"I picked up the book again, and this time it opened at the title-page, and I read the dedication. "Max - from Rebecca. May 17th," written in a curious, slanting hand... the name Rebecca stood out black and strong, the tall and sloping R dwarfing the other letters."


Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#23 Vendome

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 00:47

Gabrielle

 

Do not forget the main resource in answering your question, i.e. the sage of all knowledge - the fat bloke down the pub.

Buy him a pint and he'll give you the definitive answer of ladies' hand and wax lyrical on Hardy's writings.


Long reign the House of Belmont.


#24 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 00:59

Gabrielle

 

Do not forget the main resource in answering your question, i.e. the sage of all knowledge - the fat bloke down the pub.

Buy him a pint and he'll give you the definitive answer of ladies' hand and wax lyrical on Hardy's writings.

 

I hate buying people drinks, though. I feel especially mean and want to drink it myself, even when I don't drink. Is it worth the investment, do you reckon?


Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#25 Vendome

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 01:18

 

I hate buying people drinks, though. I feel especially mean and want to drink it myself, even when I don't drink. Is it worth the investment, do you reckon?

 

It sure is worth the cost of a pint, to get the fat bloke's opinion. You always win an argument by tacking onto the end of any sentence, "Well the fat bloke in the pub told me."

 

N.B. You may have to stretch to a packet of peanuts for him as well, if he's feeling peckish.


Long reign the House of Belmont.


#26 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:18

 

It sure is worth the cost of a pint, to get the fat bloke's opinion. You always win an argument by tacking onto the end of any sentence, "Well the fat bloke in the pub told me."

 

N.B. You may have to stretch to a packet of peanuts for him as well, if he's feeling peckish.

 

If he's feeling peckish, good for him, he can go hungry. He's fat, he can afford to lose the weight. :P

 

Yes, I am the picture of charity.


Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#27 Vendome

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:43

 

If he's feeling peckish, good for him, he can go hungry. He's fat, he can afford to lose the weight. :P

 

Yes, I am the picture of charity.

 

Best buy him the peanuts Gab, he might start eating you. :D


Long reign the House of Belmont.


#28 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:39

 

Best buy him the peanuts Gab, he might start eating you. :D

 

Here is my response:

 

http://youtu.be/tkDxNtrV0Lc?t=22s


Edited by GabrielleDuVent, 20 June 2013 - 05:42.

Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#29 Vendome

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 17:50

 

Here is my response:

 

http://youtu.be/tkDxNtrV0Lc?t=22s

 

ooh, I dunno Gab.

The fat bloke in the pub will eat anything. (Apart from salad.) :D


Long reign the House of Belmont.


#30 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 19:50

Are salads fat-bloke wards in pubs? Never did I know!


Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#31 Vendome

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 20:54

Salad is Kryptonite to the fat bloke down the pub. :)


Long reign the House of Belmont.






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