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Iroshizuku And Sailor... Why Are They So Expensive?


GabrielleDuVent

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I suspect that part of it is the heavier bottles and marketing (especially the Iroshihzuku inks). Part of it is the general expense of shipping and customs tariffs to the US (similarly, FPN Pharmacist's iron gall inks cost less than the shipping charges from Belgium).

I've tried a couple of the regular Sailor inks as samples or fills from other peoples' bottles and I've liked them okay (okay, I liked Sky High fairly well as a color -- still trying to make up my mind about Grenade because it's a really weird color), and have a sample of the nano pigmented black to try at some point when the black ink experiments resume this summer (but it would have to behave spectacularly for my purposes to justify the price).

As for the Iroshihzuku inks.... I found Asa-Gao to be highly overrated but in color (sort of well, boring) and behavior (although admittedly it was in my first Konrad that wrote very wet compared to some pens -- and was much happier with Noodler's Kung Te Cheng in it). Kosumosu never gave me the spectacular color shifting that I'd seen in scans (although up until recently I didn't really have any broad nibs), and in the yellowish hues of incandescent light looked like more like the color of slightly over-ripe watermelon; although a much better color in daylight, I got almost the same result from Private Reserve Rose Rage for about 1/4 the price. I do like Yama-budo (but not sure I like it well enough to spring for it at $28 a pop -- even though it's definitely different from Noodler's BSiAR), Fuyu-gaki is well-behaved, but a little too, well, orange (finally got through the fill of it in my Parker 21, which writes and writes and writes....). Have samples of Fuyu-syogun, Tsukushi, and Tsutsuji but haven't had a chance to try them yet. Most of the other colors don't seem to grab me (or I can get a close approximation with a different brand such as Noodler's or De Atramentis or Diamine -- all of which have a wider range available plus are much less expensive per bottle).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: I'm not sure that Windsor & Newton Paints are a fair comparison (at least as far as their watercolor and gouche paints go -- don't recall as to whether I've ever used their oils or acrylic lines). They just have more pigment in them as compared to some brands. Since most FP inks are dye-based, I don't think it's relevant (especially when in brands such as Noodler's the inks often have more saturated colors but are a lot less expensive per ounce).

Edited by inkstainedruth

"It's very nice, but frankly, when I signed that list for a P-51, what I had in mind was a fountain pen."

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I have been extremely happy with all the Iroshihzuku inks that I have. Very well behaved in all my pens. I have a number of MB inks also, but Iroshihzuku is my go to ink.

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Might add a Pilot pen to my accumulation, to see how it writes... or get another Lamy.

 

Get the Pilot. :)

 

(Just IMO, of course; you might not like a Pilot if you got it. I've had great luck with the ones I've bought: Vanishing Point(s), Custom 98, Custom 74, Custom Heritage 92. But I did have to juice up the 92; it was the only Pilot I bought that was slightly less than great. It is now, though.)

 

best wishes,

eo

Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow.

The important thing is not to stop questioning. --Albert Einstein

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I've heard that these inks are not so expensive in Japan.

I was looking on Rakuten. It is $10 before importing from Japan. If you are willing to put up with the weeks for shipping, it will be less than $20.

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I can get them from Japan, but compounding the shipping will probably jack up the price. Almost all Japanese stationeries are double the price here, probably due to customs and shipping. And returning there at the moment is out of question (too scared of radiation poisoning).

 

I might get momiji or cosmos. Might add a Pilot pen to my accumulation, to see how it writes... or get another Lamy.

 

As a fan of Lamy pens in general (though I admit their QC leaves world to be desired, at times :/ ), I recommend you get something along the lines of a gold-nibbed Accent, if you haven't already one in your collection. I recall trying one out recently, and the way it wrote was a dream. Wet and near-buttery on even cheap notebook paper, and glides like a figure skater's blade on new ice on high-class paper.

 

Then again, though I've yet to own one, Pilot apparently makes excellent FPs, so why not take a fun risk? XD

 

"The price of an object should not only be what you had to pay for it, but also what you've had to sacrifice in order to obtain it." - <i>The Wisdom of The Internet</i><p class='bbc_center'><center><img src="http://i59.tinypic.com/jr4g43.jpg"/></center>

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Air mail.

Once back in the BC...(before computers), countries like the US or England or France had ships registered to them, and sea mail was cheap...true it took 6 weeks but it was dead cheap... Air mail was expensive then.

 

When those countries no longer had any ships, but great sea going nations like Panama, Libya and Liberia did. The governments having no national ships to contract mail with, went to expensive Air Mail.

 

In Germany a bottle of Japanese ink would cost me €49....or @ $70....so I don't have any.

In reference to P. T. Barnum; to advise for free is foolish, ........busybodies are ill liked by both factions.

 

 

The cheapest lessons are from those who learned expensive lessons. Ignorance is best for learning expensive lessons.

 

 

 

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Not familiar with Sailor inks, but I have a bottle of Iroshizuku and have a couple of thoughts.

 

One is that the bottle is definitely 'better' when compared with, say, Noodler's or Diamine. Better does translate into more expensive to produce, and that would justify a price differential over those brands. But my gut tells me that the cost differential between MB bottles and Iroshizuku is much less than the differential against Noodler's, so there has to be some other justification for the price difference.

 

The other thought is that marketing people often arbitrarily choose to assign a higher price to a product in order to create the perception that it is a better than it's competitors. In real terms, perception and reality are totally separate, but in the oibjective of marketing is to distort peceptions and confuse reality by making them appear the same. In other words, Iroshizuku may siimply have chosen to assign a higher price to their ink in order to target a slightly different market segment, understanding that higher price will translate into lower sales volume without necessarily reducing the overall margin generated from the product line.

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Not familiar with Sailor inks, but I have a bottle of Iroshizuku and have a couple of thoughts.

 

One is that the bottle is definitely 'better' when compared with, say, Noodler's or Diamine. Better does translate into more expensive to produce, and that would justify a price differential over those brands. But my gut tells me that the cost differential between MB bottles and Iroshizuku is much less than the differential against Noodler's, so there has to be some other justification for the price difference.

 

The other thought is that marketing people often arbitrarily choose to assign a higher price to a product in order to create the perception that it is a better than it's competitors. In real terms, perception and reality are totally separate, but in the oibjective of marketing is to distort peceptions and confuse reality by making them appear the same. In other words, Iroshizuku may siimply have chosen to assign a higher price to their ink in order to target a slightly different market segment, understanding that higher price will translate into lower sales volume without necessarily reducing the overall margin generated from the product line.

 

This actually came up in a conversation with my parents. Apparently, it's a Japanese "tradition" to go squashing rival companies (motorcycles, for instance), then jack up the price when they have a near-monopoly.

 

My mother's buying converters for her Pilot and her Parker, so I think I'll just surreptitiously sneak in a bottle of Iroshizuku in her cart before she checks out at jetpens. And then pretend that the ink is for her Pilot...

Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,


Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;


Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié.



-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923

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Better bottle design, per se, doesn't add much to the cost of Iroshizku inks but inefficient design certainly adds to their cost, the Iroshizuku bottle is certainly a beautiful thing, and it works fairly well—certainly better than the Noodler's or Diamine bottles but it is rather wasteful of glass, I can't think of another bottle that uses so much glass to hold a similar quantity of ink, though the Pelikan Edelstein and Caran d'Ache inks come close. Lamy has a brilliantly designed bottle, as does Sailor and they're both much less expensive in the States, save for the pigmented nano inks from Sailor. Glass is heavy and can break easily, shipping it any distance adds considerably to the cost and so does cultivating an air of 'exclusivity'.

Edited by NedC
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As mentioned, they are much cheaper in Japan. A couple of years ago, Pilot started enforcing that its American distributors not sell below a certain price. That's when you saw certain sellers start throwing in free shipping and other deals to sweeten the purchase of Iroshizuku while still complying with Pilot's baseline price. I like Iroshizuku, but that's when I stopped purchasing them. Too many other good inks out there.

 

Also, have you noticed that many of the inks have the exact same base color? If you wash away with water Kujaku, Asagao, Konpeki and more(maybe Syoro--I forgot), you get the same blue remaining that looks exactly like Pilot blue?

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... Lamy has a brilliantly designed bottle...

 

Indeed, it does. I love the blotter paper idea.

 

Is the Iroshizuku bottle that big? I was a bit taken back when my Lamy came in, since the bottle looked HUGE, next to my Platinum and J Herbin especially... sort of like a German 6'4" man standing next to a Frenchman (5'9") and a Japanese man (5' 8").

 

The bottles really do show the country's traits. J Herbin has smoked glass, which gives the air of "I'm fancy, you are not". My Platinum has a very classic-looking bottle, small, and utilitarian, but with curves where I don't expect; "I do care about my appearance, but I also care about your drawer space and the utility too". My German Lamy is "I'm big, I hold a lot, and my designer put a lot of thought to the utility but forgot about the aesthetics".

 

There used to be an old Pelikan bottle lying around in the study, dunno where that went. It really was beautiful, and I grew up seeing that bottle. I wonder if they still make it.

http://www.overdiep.nl/ink/Dscn5359.jpg

Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,


Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;


Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié.



-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923

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Iroshizuku is worth its price in Japan, and maybe even worth its price in Taiwan, but not worth its price in the USA unless you're particularly enamoured with a specific one and willing to take the gouging.

 

I have largely abandoned Iroshizuku inks because I don't find them all that interesting or appealing, with the only exceptions for me being Kon-peki and Ku-jaku, and those aren't irreplaceable. Tsuki-yo is great for putting me to sleep. They're [mostly] fine inks, or even excellent inks, with lots of hype.

 

They are definitely inks to try in samples first, and good to learn about from experience rather than from what you read on the internet. They might resonate, and they might not. Not liking Iroshizuku (and not disliking it) does not undermine your ink street cred or your sense of beauty. It's just ink.

Edited by XiaoMG

Robert.

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Welcome back, Robert. Long time no see.

I know my id is "mhosea", but you can call me Mike. It's an old Unix thing.

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Iroshizuku ink is so expensive because the overseas distributors have upped the price a ridiculous amount. JetPens used to import the ink directly from Japan before there was a distributor in the U.S. and they sold it for around $22. Then the U.S. distributor started importing it and JetPens was told they weren't allowed to sell in that cheaply anymore, and it increased to MSRP $35 retail $28.

 

I understand importing glass bottles of ink is obviously going to make the price jump quite a bit more than it would in its country of origin, but I can't help think the increase is excessive.

 

They are incredibly well behaved though, and they also have a few colors you just can't find elsewhere.

Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared.

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Iroshizuku is worth its price in Japan, and maybe even worth its price in Taiwan, but not worth its price in the USA unless you're particularly enamoured with a specific one and willing to take the gouging.

 

Just wondering, how much is Iroshizuku ink in Taiwan? I just got a bottle of Tsuki Yo today, and it has a nice subtle shading that I enjoy.. but then I remember it's around 3.5x the price of Noodler's and I feel a little bad for spending all that cash.

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I happen to be a huge fan of Lamy bottles, and use them to carry my ink mixes for when I finish up the ink that came with the bottle. Blotter paper aside, I really like how there's a depressed portion in the very center of the bottle, which makes it easier to get to those last few drops of ink. I believe the Iroshizuku bottles are similarly designed?

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that the fact that Iroshizuku inks are over twice their MSRP in the US is because of customs fees and whatnot. An acquaintance of mine might be going to Japan some day soon, so I may as well ask for a few bottles of Iroshizuku. It'd be a wasted opportunity if I didn't take advantage of this, you understand :rolleyes:

 

And +1 that bit about the nano Sailor inks being more expensive; their regular line isn't really all that pricey.

"The price of an object should not only be what you had to pay for it, but also what you've had to sacrifice in order to obtain it." - <i>The Wisdom of The Internet</i><p class='bbc_center'><center><img src="http://i59.tinypic.com/jr4g43.jpg"/></center>

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I have Pilot Iroshizukus: Asao-Gao; Tsuyu-Kusa; Tsuki-Yo. They behave well in practically any pen I have.

 

I have both Sailor "nano" inks. While I wouldn't call Sei-Boku a "black" blue-black, it's performance is quite good in nearly every pen I have. Both "nano" inks give me some durability without the hassles I was experiencing with "bulletproofs." As one of our other posters demonstrated, Kiwa-Guro stays put on the page once its there. IIRC, it outperformed bulletproof black in the water/alcohol soak test.

 

I also have Platinum's "Carbon Black" which isn't particularly cheap.

 

A bottle of Iroshizuku, $28-35. A bottle of Sailor "nano," $24-30. Having a bottle of ink that does not find ways to leak out of pens... priceless.

Imagination and memory are but one thing which for diverse reasons hath diverse names. -- T. Hobbes - Leviathan

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In the UK:

 

Sailor £11 (=$17)

Sailor Kiwa-guro £16 (=$25)

Pilot Iroshizuku £25 (=$39)

 

This makes Sailor a reassuringly expensive ink in the UK, but for most people still an affordable one (only twice the price of something like Quink or Waterman at the lower end of ink prices), and it makes Iroshizuku something that's way outside what one would expect to pay. To give some perspective, Sailor is the price of a couple of bottles of plonk from the bargain bin of an off-licence, but Iroshizuku is the price of a bottle of Lanson Black Label champagne.

 

As K. Cakes says, the distributors know they can screw a lot of money out of people. In the UK, we remember how Pilot latched on to this for its other boutique brandname, when overnight it jacked up the price of Namiki ink from £5 to £15...

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I've tried both sailor and Iroshizuku inks now, and I will say that one will leave you awe struck while the other will leave you cold and confused...

 

Sailor inks I found were quite boring for my taste, and ink properties are not the most favorable for my use...

However the Iroshizuku (I took a dive and just bought two bottles to try them out) Oh boy was I not disappointed!

I would highly recommend Tsuki-Yo as your first ink to try...very unique dark blue, much more interesting than a blue-black. The colour is interesting enough to keep you on your toes but subtle enough that it could be used anywhere without fatiguing your eyes. It shifts slightly from being blue-turquoise-navy all competing for your attention in the most mannered fashion.

 

 

I think that's what makes iroshizuku inks so desirable, that there are some colours that are just so unique compared to others out there, but still usable!

 

 

Interesting because I've found the opposite to be true for me. I have some Iroshizuku colors that I love such as Ku-jaku, Yama-guri, and Fuyu-gaki; but especially the blues leave me confused about the hubub around FPN. Don't get me wrong, many are on my want list and I still have samples to try.

 

Sailor inks, on the other hand, are delicious! One exception has been Peche, but I tried a few samples and had to have to whole line plus some LEs that are still available.

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massive fan of iroshizuku inks. I mean, I'm not too concerned with the shading, more about consistency for me, and I have found iroshizuku inks to be the best behaved inks out of my whole collection, in a range of pens and on different papers. They always just seem to "work", and that's what I like :D So I regularly shell out $50 for a bottle of the stuff (its australia, even parker quink is $20). And I'm pretty happy with the colours too ;) It takes me months and months to go through a bottle, so, per page is cheaper than even BPs.

My two best writers.

http://s2.postimg.org/v3a1772ft/M1000_Black_L_R.jpg..........http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/1217/85960889.png

.........I call this one Günter. ......... I call this one Michael Clarke Duncan.

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