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Moleskine Vs. Montblanc Issue

problem issue moleskine montblanc medium nib toffee brown bleed through

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#1 stesh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:39

Hi, everyone!

 

I am new to both - fountain pens and this forum. Sorry, if this has already been discussed, but I haven't found it on the forum.

 

I recently bought my first fountain pen - a Montblanc Jonathan Swift with medium nib with Montblanc toffee brown ink. I was looking for a decent notebook which would be used both - for office notes and my personal ones. Moleskine seemed to be the perfect choice due to it's design and creamy paper colour.

 

It turned out to be a disaster as I can use only one side of the notebook due to severe bleed-through of the ink. Please see the pic.

 

image.jpg

 

Please advise if all moleskines are like that or it is due to the choice of pen/ink.

 

What substitute to moleskine would you recommend? I would rather change the notebook, then the pen :wub: .

 

 

Do all monblanc inks have the same bleedthrough qualities or should I try another ink, maybe a non-montblanc one?

 

thank you in advance!

Dennis


Edited by stesh, 31 May 2013 - 08:49.


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#2 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:48

Hi, everyone!

 

I am new to both - fountain pens and this forum. Sorry, if this has already been discussed, but I haven't found it on the forum.

 

I recently bought my first fountain pen - a Montblanc Jonathan Swift with medium nib with Montblanc toffee brown ink. I was looking for a decent notebook which would be used both - for office notes and my personal ones. Moleskine seemed to be the perfect choice due to it's design and creamy paper colour.

 

It turned out to be a disaster as I can use only one side of the notebook due to severe bleed-through of the ink. Please see the pic.

 

image.jpg

 

Please advise if all moleskines are like that or it is due to the choice of pen/ink.

 

What substitute to moleskine would you recommend? I would rather change the notebook, then the pen :wub: .

 

Are all monblanc inks have the same bleedthrough qualities or should I try another ink, maybe a non-montblanc one?

 

thank you in advance!

Dennis

 

Pen/ink. My Moleskine bleeds a little when using very wet ink, but otherwise it's fine. Thicker nibs tend to write wetter (more ink flow); not sure how wet the Mont Blanc toffee brown is. 

 

Try using Noodler's Bulletproof. Since Jonathan Swift is LE, I doubt you can readily get finer nibs. 

 

Rhodia makes wet-ink-thick-nib friendly paper, but you def. need blotters, which is why I don't use them any more. Clairefontaine goes a middle ground between Rhodia and Moleskine and maybe Exacompta. Japanese notebooks are very FP friendly as well. 

 

Happy writing!


Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#3 Namru

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:00

Moleskine isn't great when using saturated inks in wetter pens and will suck all the life out of the ink you're using. Mont Blanc Toffee Brown is a gorgeous ink but on Moleskine I found it kills it.

It's one of those inks that really needs to sit on the paper instead of being absorbed into it. Leuchtturm1917, Clairefontaine, Quo Vadis and Rhodia should all perform better.

#4 thedeacon

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:02

Hey Dennis,

 

First, welcome to FPN!  If you can't find an answer here, there isn't one.

 

As for Moleskine, it seems like you either hate it or love.  I'm not a big fan for the reasons you have already mentioned.  I like saturated inks (like Montblanc and most Diamine) and a nice wet medium nib.  That combo on Moleskine doesn't work for me.  Plenty of people love it and may be able to offer you ink ideas that are less saturated and show less bleed through.

 

You may want to consider Rhodia, they make notebooks in a similar design.  Specifically, the Webnotebooks or Rhodiarama collections.  I've had good luck with those.  Clairfontaine also makes nice paper, but is a little too "slick" for me.  Seems to extend dry time.  Then there is my personal favorite, Leuchtturm 1917.  Almost identical in design to Moleskine notebooks, but with paper that doesn't show through (and more pages!).  I've had great luck with Leuchtturm, even with dark, saturated inks in wet writes.  Check out some of the reviews in the paper and pen paraphernalia forum.  You'll find some great alternatives and fair reviews.

 

Nice choice for a first pen BTW.  :)


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#5 thedeacon

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 07:05

Moleskine isn't great when using saturated inks in wetter pens and will suck all the life out of the ink you're using. Mont Blanc Toffee Brown is a gorgeous ink but on Moleskine I found it kills it.

It's one of those inks that really needs to sit on the paper instead of being absorbed into it. Leuchtturm1917, Clairefontaine, Quo Vadis and Rhodia should all perform better.

HEY!  You bet me too this while I was typing.  :lticaptd: I couldn't agree more.


"If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special."-Jim Valvano

 

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world.  But, the Marines don't have that problem."-Ronald Reagan


#6 stesh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:45

Thank you, everebody for your fast and detailed advice!

I will look toward Leuchtturm1917 or other alternatives that you named.

 

I chose a medium nib especially for signing documents. And I would not want to go for another ink as i adore my very first one - toffee brown.

 

BTW - what do you think - is such colour okay for signing papers?

It is not bright enough to be too extravagant for an official document?

 

I wanted to be a bit oroginal and to make sure that my signature stands out from the rest. But not too much B)

 

Looks like it could be a good idea to get another pen for everyday notes - with fine nib and a different - less wet ink.

 

thank you, all!


Edited by stesh, 31 May 2013 - 08:49.


#7 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:19

Thank you, everebody for your fast and detailed advice!

I will look toward Leuchtturm1917 or other alternatives that you named.

 

I chose a medium nib especially for signing documents. And I would not want to go for another ink as i adore my very first one - toffee brown.

 

BTW - what do you think - is such colour okay for signing papers?

It is not bright enough to be too extravagant for an official document?

 

I wanted to be a bit oroginal and to make sure that my signature stands out from the rest. But not too much B)

 

Looks like it could be a good idea to get another pen for everyday notes - with fine nib and a different - less wet ink.

 

thank you, all!

 

For official documents, I learned that black is the most proper. Same with official correspondence. Blue implied a little more informality. But recently, the manner has changed and BLUE is the most proper colour. This is because when you photocopy the document, you can tell the difference between the copy and the actual document if the signature's in blue (the copy comes out black).

 

Historically, the reason why black was the preferred ink was because the notary ink was black; J Herbin's history touches on it a little, where legal workers used their black ink that was reputed to not fade for three centuries. Black fades the least. In Asia, the ONLY colour available was black, since we used burned carbon as the ink. Either way, east or west, the colour was black.

 

So in response to your question: they will request you to use blue ink (or black) when signing legal and official documents, such as will. If it's just a regular correspondence with your friends, you can write in Rachmaninoff rose (I've had my mother write to me in that colour - she plays the piano and his fan - very pretty.) You can argue that the intent is what's important not fiddlesticks like colour, but I guess using a fountain pen is partly because it's laid with a millennium of tradition and why flaunt the colour tradition when you're valuing the writing implement tradition? 

 

Most people on here have the "main" pen, where they throw around in their bags and back pockets. The most popular one is Lamy Safari, probably because it writes on par with other, more upper-end pens and is very, very cheap. Their "touch it and you'll have your hands chopped off" pens stay at home, because bringing it around can lead to dropping, bumping, scratching, yahoos asking to borrow it, e.t.c. Even slight bumps can slightly off-set nibs (although I can't tell anyway, but grinders can, apparently). Other favourites are Platinum Preppys. Those are refillable, but the price is around the same as Pilot Vpens and Varsities.

 

My high school writing teacher - who also taught all the etiquette on writing anything, from wills to correspondence (so much so that everything had to be hand-written unless specified and in ink... most of my friends used rollerballs) - had a BIG poster above his door that said, "DO YOU HAVE YOUR BLUE". Blue is used that frequently as the official colour nowadays.

 

I do wish that I'd see someone sign a BIG will with Sakura gelly rolls. But I doubt that'd ever happen.


Edited by GabrielleDuVent, 31 May 2013 - 09:29.

Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#8 The Good Captain

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:15

I have the best results on Moleskine paper with Pelikan 4001 Blue-Black and a Fine nib. Some others are OK too but the 4001 just does it for me, consistently.


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#9 Mags

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:16

Stesh:

 

The Toffee Brown is a wonderful rich brown ink which flows well and looks quite unique on the page.  Brown was a commonly used ink amongst executives in the 90's.  The ink colour used in the civil services of government in the days of old was also highly  correlated to ones level in the government with section heads and Director Generals and Deputy Minister's or Assistant Secretaries all using a different colour ink on documents.  To some extent today we use different mark up colours in modern word processors to differentiate our editorial remarks and changes.

 

My awareness of legal requirements is that an ink signature is a requirement of common law though offer and acceptance with a persons mark being a simple X and in pencil in the right appropriate circumstances may still be binding.  Land registries and hospitals all seem to have set up colour specific ink preferences.  The black inks for registry purposes for lands transactions seems a common demand though I have only personal experience buying and selling a principal residence in a few Provinces.

 

The blue ink versus black with photocopiers is a very practical reason to use the blue inks.  I find that a third of the copiers at the office are colour ones now and the same for printers so it is often very difficult to decide if the wet signature version of a signed document is the one in anyones hand.    The use of a mark or a seal is still appearing on certified original contracts and it is a definite assistance in the situation where a large volume of contracts are being managed.

 

I do find that about any colour ink that is able to be read is accepted in my work but know full well 99% of people access blue, black, red and green inks in over the counter pen sales.  I would reject contracts and forms signed in yellow highlighter!  I also know processing a large volume of contracts with higher dollar values that our corporate finance folks prefer we avoid the colour of the auditors or green ink on internal payment records.  I doubt a contract would be rejected lately if signed in green ink. I sign routinely for my employer as the contracting authority and have accepted colours other than black or blue....and the courts agree the contract is legal so precedent is on my side.

 

Notebooks and well saturated ink.  I am absolutely a notebook snob and fountain pens a quirky part of my persona.  I use all of the notebooks even moleskines with the pens, pencils and fountain pens in my reach.  This new TWSBI notebook is quite similiar to a moleskine but the paper is slightly heavier. I used a Waterman Havanna ink on a small page and can report with a broad nib that there is a shadow but NO bleed through.  I think I paid $10.99 for the notebook plus shipping from TWSBI California coming from Philip Wang.  

 

Without much reservation I am in the following fan camp of Midori for notebooks.  Not to be confused with the little Midori traveller notebook system inserts.  This is an A5 Midori sold 192 page notebook and the paper feels absorbant and smooth and does not feather or bleed through (easily).  Any custom hand sewn journal you can find made with a Tomoe River paper blows away all the glossy and heavier papers in europe and north america.  This wonder paper has its issues with wrinkling but is super thin, highly fountain pen friendly paper.  The problem is price due to high demand and limited supply in the world.

 

For fun read this ink colour article:  http://pragmatic.nat...ation-together/


Rob Maguire (Plse call me "M or Mags" like my friends do...)I use a Tablet, Apple Pencil and a fountain pen. Targas, Sailor, MB, Visconti all wonderful.

#10 Colors

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 14:22

I am not surprised; Moleskines are about the worst with fountain pens.  Try Lechtturm, Rhodia, CLairefontaine; all of these should be a significant improvement.  

 

Also, a notebook I recently discovered...Apica.  Smooth, wonderful paper.  Although, expensive, but worth it.  



#11 torstar

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 14:39

I use fine/extra fine nibs with Moleskin, gotta know the paper and nib and ink you are dealing with.

 

Great paper when the combo works.

 

Part of the hobby is trial and error as to what works. Build up your pens, inks, and paper, and don't listen to people who tried it once and it failed.

 

It is ignorant to try to destroy the good name of Moleskin just because you didn't get it to work once, there are apparently rules on the board, but anything goes in murdering the good name of Moleskin.



#12 soum

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 17:18

+1 to the Pelikan 4001 inks suggested above. In particular, I love the old Pelikan Blue Black with a fine nib to write on my Moleskins. I've also had great experiences with Montblanc Midnight Blue on that paper.

#13 thedeacon

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 17:33

It is ignorant to try to destroy the good name of Moleskin just because you didn't get it to work once, there are apparently rules on the board, but anything goes in murdering the good name of Moleskin.

I encourage you to reconsider your statement.  The purpose of the board is to promote discussion of a shared interest and to share experiences involving said interest.  These experiences encompass both good and bad.  None of the above posts are intended to "destroy the good name of Moleskine."  If you will review my post you will find the following: "Plenty of people love it and may be able to offer you ink ideas that are less saturated and show less bleed through."  Your comment about "rules of the board" seems misguided.  All of the posts have simply been experiences with this particular product.  I happen to love Leuchtturm notebooks. However I have read plenty of reviews on here by members that do not like it for various reasons.  Should I accuse them of "destroying the good name of Leuchtturm" because we do not share the same view?

 

I applaud your love of Molekine and am glad you found the pen, ink and paper combination you enjoy.  Again, I do not share your view, that's why there is more than one brand to chose from.

 

As far as the rules of the board, I know there have been rules established concerning Noodler's Bay State Blue.  I think that may be a special case.  I challenge you to show me where a member can not post a review/experience that highlights their negative opinion.  Done tastefully and fairly, of course.  I think Aristotle said it best:

“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”

"If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special."-Jim Valvano

 

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world.  But, the Marines don't have that problem."-Ronald Reagan


#14 stesh

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 19:13

Wow! That was really helpful.

Special thanks to GabrielleDuVent & Mags.

 

Regarding the signing of official docs with toffee brown - I haven't tried the Russian notary yet - but the bank accepted it perfectly well today when I signed a passport change and on-line bank applications. 

 

I am a lawyer in a bank - and I sign mostly internal documents and make short comments to them. I rarely sign anything external and legally binding. So far - no problems with anyone disputing the colour of my ink. But I admit - it does look a bit strange among other blue/black signatures  B)

 

I will get a bottle of blue ink any way and consider getting another "everyday" pen.

 

On the other hand, having a toffee brown coloured signature makes it almost impossible to forge... or at least it will require  greater deal of effort.

 

 

You can argue that the intent is what's important not fiddlesticks like colour, but I guess using a fountain pen is partly because it's laid with a millennium of tradition and why flaunt the colour tradition when you're valuing the writing implement tradition? 

 

So your advise is to be more conservative when choosing ink colour for official docs?

 

In Russia there are no laws/regulations on the colour of the ink. Though pencil is prohibited in notarised docs for obvious reasons.

 

Despite the popularity of colour printers - I would not go for black ink. I just don't like it - and subconsciously I feel that it makes hard to tell if it is a copy or an original of the document. 


Edited by stesh, 31 May 2013 - 19:15.


#15 amberleadavis

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 22:09

Once again, I love inks like Luxury Blue - you can always tell an original because even the best scanners and printers can't copy the UV glow.


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#16 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 10:35

Wow! That was really helpful.

Special thanks to GabrielleDuVent & Mags.

 

Regarding the signing of official docs with toffee brown - I haven't tried the Russian notary yet - but the bank accepted it perfectly well today when I signed a passport change and on-line bank applications. 

 

I am a lawyer in a bank - and I sign mostly internal documents and make short comments to them. I rarely sign anything external and legally binding. So far - no problems with anyone disputing the colour of my ink. But I admit - it does look a bit strange among other blue/black signatures  B)

 

I will get a bottle of blue ink any way and consider getting another "everyday" pen.

 

On the other hand, having a toffee brown coloured signature makes it almost impossible to forge... or at least it will require  greater deal of effort.

 

 

So your advise is to be more conservative when choosing ink colour for official docs?

 

In Russia there are no laws/regulations on the colour of the ink. Though pencil is prohibited in notarised docs for obvious reasons.

 

Despite the popularity of colour printers - I would not go for black ink. I just don't like it - and subconsciously I feel that it makes hard to tell if it is a copy or an original of the document. 

 

Well, I've had to sign bank documents in about five countries and they always said "blue" or "black" when I asked. Red is a no because it's used to show deficits, but I had J Herbin's purple in my pen at that time. I guess it's just safer to go with tradition for me, since sometimes lighter-coloured inks don't show up in photocopies.

 

It'd be amusing to see how Declaration of Independence may have looked like if they had the variety of colours we do have now. John Hancock in cerulean!


Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#17 Namru

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 11:51

It is ignorant to try to destroy the good name of Moleskin just because you didn't get it to work once, there are apparently rules on the board, but anything goes in murdering the good name of Moleskin.


It's also ignorant to think people who dislike Moleskine paper have only ever tried it once. Personally, all my inks are tried on a Moleskine notebook and nine times out of ten they are gobbled up, killed and pooped out on the other side of the page.

Edited by Namru, 01 June 2013 - 11:57.


#18 alvarado

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 12:55

It's also ignorant to think people who dislike Moleskine paper have only ever tried it once. Personally, all my inks are tried on a Moleskine notebook and nine times out of ten they are gobbled up, killed and pooped out on the other side of the page.

Spot on!  I have criticised the poor quality of Moleskine's paper.  Given the price tag of Moleskine, why bother to go for some other brands instead of sticking to Moleskine.  

(P.S. I still have more than 10 Moleksines unopened and will use them when I am not using fountain pen.)


Do not pray for easy lives, pray to be stronger men.../JFK

#19 GabrielleDuVent

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 13:15

Spot on!  I have criticised the poor quality of Moleskine's paper.  Given the price tag of Moleskine, why bother to go for some other brands instead of sticking to Moleskine.  

(P.S. I still have more than 10 Moleksines unopened and will use them when I am not using fountain pen.)

 

I think it incites a sort of an argument because the statements tend to sound as if it applies all across the board. "I use this nib and this ink and it doesn't work on Moleskine" is a bit different from "Moleskine is awful". 

 

I personally like Moleskine. It works well with my nibs and my inks. But it's tricky to hit the right combo.


Tes rires retroussés comme à son bord la rose,

Effacent mon dépit de ta métamorphose;

Tu t'éveilles, alors le rêve est oublié. 

 

-Jean Cocteau, from Plaint-Chant, 1923


#20 JefferyS

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 15:55

I like the flatness of Moleskine books and paper, but it doesn't go well with my inks. I think we all have to keep an open mind here, and that includes both positive and negative experiences by the membership. The BSB issue is a bit different in that it seems to lead to a condemnation of the ink manufacturer. 

 

In all, this thread is instructional to the newbie. Don't buy a dozen of anything until you've tried one of them, and if Brand X isn't working for you, try Brand Y or Brand Z until you've hit a winner.

 

And there is the hypothesis that it is better to buy one notebook that works with all inks than buy one ink that works with all notebooks. I would rather be narrow in my notebook selection and all over the place with my ink selections.


Jeffery
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New Orleans, LA





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: problem, issue, moleskine, montblanc, medium nib, toffee brown, bleed through



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