Phileas Phever

[pajaro]

I stand by my long-ago comparison of the Phileas to the original VW Beetle. Its appeal does seem to not arise from fine materials or a flawless design. Rather its various aspects mesh together into an overall "it" factor. Like the Beetle, the Phileas inspires passionate devotion from some buyers and a "who-would-want-one?" mystification from higher-end aficianados. I could try other pens and they would probably impress me. But I do enjoy having a pen that works well but I can carry without worrying TOO much if it gets lost or damaged. Instead of one Mont Blanc, I have opted for a large handful of Watermans.

 

P.S. I suppose one could draw a comparison between Kultur and the New Beetle. But there the metaphor breaks down. The Phileas is a higher quality pen than Kultur by any measure I can think of. Whereas, the New Beetle was unquestionable a technologically superior automobile. Still, the "it" factor remains in play for me. Given a choice between a mint condition 1970 Beetle and a mint condition New Beetle, I would opt for the older classic. To each his or her own.

 

+ 1 on both counts, the pen and the car. I think you nailed it with the "it factor." I write this only as a spectator looking in, but the "it factor" was clearly important to the owners.

 

I didn't notice much other than P51s most of my pen-owning life. I had no experience of Waterman until very recently. The Phileas stays wet and makes work less of a hassle. No wonder people have liked it.

[JonSzanto]

I hope it was clear I wasn't dissing the Phil, since I've owned quite a few and still use a couple. I was, of course, pointing out how it, eventually, lost some of it's appeal to me without losing the basic solid functional qualities.

 

All of us have "it" pens. The particular qualites of the "it" varies from person to person. There are millions of people (seemingly) out there that consider the Lamy Safari an "it" pen (go figure); there are people with a lot more money than the Safari-ites that consider the MB 149 the "it" pen. There is currently a thread going on about the Pelikan 400NN being the bee's knees (I have to concur on this one!).

 

We're all different, and our eyes and tastes, hands and needs, all the elements are arrayed a little differently for all of us. Fortunately, there are a lot of pens out there, and more than enough "it" pens to satisfy most people.

 

Hell, even Sly Stallone has that Chaos monstrosity...

[TwelveDrawings]

I hope it was clear I wasn't dissing the Phil, since I've owned quite a few and still use a couple. I was, of course, pointing out how it, eventually, lost some of it's appeal to me without losing the basic solid functional qualities.

 

All of us have "it" pens. The particular qualites of the "it" varies from person to person. There are millions of people (seemingly) out there that consider the Lamy Safari an "it" pen (go figure); there are people with a lot more money than the Safari-ites that consider the MB 149 the "it" pen. There is currently a thread going on about the Pelikan 400NN being the bee's knees (I have to concur on this one!).

 

We're all different, and our eyes and tastes, hands and needs, all the elements are arrayed a little differently for all of us. Fortunately, there are a lot of pens out there, and more than enough "it" pens to satisfy most people.

 

Hell, even Sly Stallone has that Chaos monstrosity...

I heard no slight in your post. And since there are undoubtedly fan clubs, online threads, and annual car shows devoted to....say...the 1973 Gremlin, you are right that the "it" factor shows up for some people in very unexpected places. It keeps life interesting.-- TD

 

NOTE: The above post is not intended to offend anyone who happens to like the 1973 Gremlin. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Look, there goes one now! http://www.wheelstalk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/DC-Photo-4-.jpg

 

And yes, I chose the 1973 Gremlin as a random example. The car in the photo belongs to a total stranger.

Edited March 11, 2014 by TwelveDrawings

[pajaro]

Beautiful Gremlin in pristine condition. What you like can change over time as you become aware of different stuff.

[Left FPN]

What harm is a little corrosion. If it writes then its good to go for a while yet.

[RMN]

Well, no misrepresentation here, and a fair starting price, I would say...

 

 

D.ick

[pagama]

Trebor, it appears you are fairly new here. Force knows the Phileas backwards and forwards, and knows the market very well. He and I have discussed this on numerous times, and in the last 1-2 years the pen has, on average, doubled it's usual selling price. I used to buy them used for around $20 to encourage others to take up fountain pens; these days, it is difficult to find one (a decent one) for under $40.

 

My points above still stand: I don't think these will achieve actual vintage pen price points, mainly because of their mass market nature. Nonetheless, you can rest assured that Force certainly knows current market value, which I'm not quite certain you do.

 

The Phileas was my second pen.

And was my second pen too!!!!!!!

[pagama]

Indus Grey...very nice in the flesh. There's a used one on the bay your side of the pond, not cheap but on past sales not expensive either.

 

or if you want to pay 'top dollar' for a mint one but it is an EF.

"Top Dollar"? Let me think....................hmmmmmmmmmmmm.............................what did I pay for my Phileas about 6 years ago (NEW in store).....................$120.00 AUD, in our Melbourne Myers Store Pen Department. Is that "Top Dollar" enough?

[esteroids]

I was talking to somebody about nib sizes. The broads are rare, but I see them around. But I've only seen a few of the EF. I know I don't get out much, but is the EF Phileas really rare?

[TwelveDrawings]

In the course of purchasing whatever reasonably priced Phileas I could find, I have seen about one EF nib out of every ten purchase. I find them to be very good for drawing or writing. -- TwelveDrawings

[mrcharlie]

When an eBay listing says "Medium point" in the text and the photo shows an EF, do you assume "not a photo of the actual item; who knows what condition it is actually in", or "seller forgot to change their generic listing text to the right nib size"?

Edited March 12, 2014 by mrcharlie

[TwelveDrawings]

When an eBay listing says "Medium point" in the text and the photo shows an EF, do you assume "not a photo of the actual item; who knows what condition it is actually in", or "seller forgot to change their generic listing text to the right nib size"?

Good question, and certainly caution would lead me to querry the seller directly. But it doesn't speak well of the seller, does it? The nib matters a great deal, and the marking is easy to find. -- TwelveDrawings

[manolo]

I have just purchased some Phileas (NOS, at a very reasonable price, but no more pens left in that store, sorry) and my first impressions with the pen are good. OK, it is an "entrance-level" pen, and robustness doesn't seem to be the main focus of their design, but size, weight, balance, ergonomics and looks are all good. I plan to give some of them as gifts for younger relatives, but I will keep one for me.

[TwelveDrawings]

I have just purchased some Phileas (NOS, at a very reasonable price, but no more pens left in that store, sorry) and my first impressions with the pen are good. OK, it is an "entrance-level" pen, and robustness doesn't seem to be the main focus of their design, but size, weight, balance, ergonomics and looks are all good. I plan to give some of them as gifts for younger relatives, but I will keep one for me.

I will live through your happiness. Congrats on finding a Shangrila of pristine pens. -- TD

[JonSzanto]

Just saw a Phileas go for $33.00 on eBay last night. The prices, they go up and down...

[TwelveDrawings]

Just saw a Phileas go for $33.00 on eBay last night. The prices, they go up and down...

I must've been dozing. Well okay, fast asleep. I have found some good ones for around that price (if I fudge the truth by about $10 bucks).

 

So was it new in box? Used by a little old lady? Chewed by a pitbull? Never mind... I'm better off not knowing. -- TwelveDrawings

[TwelveDrawings]

I know that eBay links have a short shelflife. But when a seller describes a Philease as "Excellent New Old Stock condition" what exactly does that mean? Does the seller think buyers will be scared off by the word "Old" so they threw in "excellent" for reassurance? Or is this another case of shady spin by the seller (i.e., like describing a used car as being "like new")? Opinions anyone? -- TwelveDrawings

 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterman-Phileas-Rare-solid-Red-for-your-collection-M-fountain-pen-Not-Kultur-/181345424045?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a390792ad

[JonSzanto]

Well, allowing for all the variety of sellers out there...

 

"NOS" should mean only one thing: Old stock that has never been sold. Now, having said that, the manner in which items have been stored, maybe even displayed, can affect the individual items. It isn't unheard of for sellers/retailers to come across the inventory of a defunct store, or buy merchandise from one going out of business, that had been boxed up in a basement or warehouse for who knows how long. Very, very old pens can have pistons dry out, moisture invading packaging can cause deterioration, including pitting on plating, etc.

 

If the seller is really being honest, actually appending a 'quality' to an NOS piece is being pretty generous. The only other way to be even more specific would be to tell about how they came about the stock, and detail any blemishes, etc, that might have come not from use, but from simply old things being stored.

 

Teri Morris of Peyton Street Pens is always really good about this, and will note any small blemishes on NOS items. Almost always, it is so minimal as to not matter, but it keeps a good situation good: when people purchase, they don't get a pen and then say "Hey! There's a little spot right here on the clip, it's supposed to be NOS, what's up with that???"

 

HTH

 

P.S. I just looked at the link. I don't like that it is phrase (as you said) "new old stock condition". That means, precisely, jack. It either is, or isn't, NOS. The condition of which can vary, but not whether it is actually unsold merchandise. Bah!

Edited March 16, 2014 by JonSzanto

[TwelveDrawings]

Thank you, HTH, for clarifying and confirming what NOS should mean. When new pens are handled in-store by prospective buyers—some of whom dip the nib in ink—that "new" pen can become fairly well-used. That would be acceptable to me as long as the pen had never been sold. As for the Ebay pen referenced above... buyer beware. –– TwelveDrawings

[JonSzanto]

Thank you, HTH, for clarifying and confirming what NOS should mean.

 

Heh... I'm Jon. "HTH" is net slang for "hope this helps".

 

 

 

When new pens are handled in-store by prospective buyers—some of whom dip the nib in ink—that "new" pen can become fairly well-used. That would be acceptable to me as long as the pen had never been sold. As for the Ebay pen referenced above... buyer beware. –– TwelveDrawings

 

I would not consider a pen that has been dipped in ink to be NOS. There aren't any rules, mind you, but I would think most people consider NOS to have been never out of the box, or at the very most, to have had light handling for examination. A pen store should have tester pens for inking purposes.