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540 Terrible Build Quality


John12

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John, really, I don't understand you at all: you made mistakes with your pen. TWSBI sent you replacement parts for free . People here are trying to help you. You yourself said you don't know a lot about pens, and still you are here, insutling people and deniying any responsability in the matter. Frankly, I am amazed by the kindness of the members who are still trying to figure out what's wrong with your pen!

 

Please, try at least to be polite if you can.

 

Thank you.

 

I only made "mistakes" the first 2 times, and I know that. However, the pen itself (imo) is not made very well; it lends itself to error to the average consumer. Of course, all of you "pen aficionados" might beg to differ, and say that anything that happens is the fault of the user since TWSBI pens are oh so perfect.

 

If you look at this thread closely, you'll see the argument started when people insulted my handwriting technique and questioned whether I knew how to use a pen and screw on a cap. You call that kindness? You call dismissing all problems as the user's fault as kindness? And then you say that people who talk about how my photos don't explain anything useful even though they don't actually know what they are talking about as kindness? Okay then.

 

I am perfectly polite to people who are actually trying to help me. On the other hand, why should I be polite to people who don't attempt to help me at all, and instead insult me?

 

Flounder thanks for the thread.

Speedy, I have contacted Philip multiple times, and he keeps sending me the same parts that don't work. Maybe I'll ask him to send me the 580's grip and barrel, but I doubt that will happen.

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John, really, I don't understand you at all: you made mistakes with your pen. TWSBI sent you replacement parts for free . People here are trying to help you. You yourself said you don't know a lot about pens, and still you are here, insutling people and deniying any responsability in the matter. Frankly, I am amazed by the kindness of the members who are still trying to figure out what's wrong with your pen!

 

Please, try at least to be polite if you can.

 

Thank you.

 

I only made "mistakes" the first 2 times, and I know that. However, the pen itself (imo) is not made very well; it lends itself to error to the average consumer. Of course, all of you "pen aficionados" might beg to differ, and say that anything that happens is the fault of the user since TWSBI pens are oh so perfect.

 

If you look at this thread closely, you'll see the argument started when people insulted my handwriting technique and questioned whether I knew how to use a pen and screw on a cap. You call that kindness? You call dismissing all problems as the user's fault as kindness? And then you say that people who talk about how my photos don't explain anything useful even though they don't actually know what they are talking about as kindness? Okay then.

 

I am perfectly polite to people who are actually trying to help me. On the other hand, why should I be polite to people who don't attempt to help me at all, and instead insult me?

 

Flounder thanks for the thread.

Speedy, I have contacted Philip multiple times, and he keeps sending me the same parts that don't work. Maybe I'll ask him to send me the 580's grip and barrel, but I doubt that will happen.

 

Speedy suggested that you send the whole pen back to Phillip and he will repair it.

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Hey, what do you know. I just received my replacement parts from TWSBI, and they don't fit because they sent me the wrong parts. Instead of sending me a nib assembly, they sent me a part of the piston. Go figure. But this is completely my fault right?....

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Sounds to me like TWSBI needs to make a special one-off solid tungsten barrel and PBI polybenzimidazole feeder, just for the original poster.

 

:roflmho:

 

Sorry I don't have any helpful inputs, though!

Inglourious Basterds...

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This thread has clear photographs of the issue, documents the same failure of the threaded feed collar across several users and several TWSBIs, and dates from September of last year.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/230653-my-twsbi-broke/

 

Th OP doesn't need a tungsten barrel, the load bearing feed sleeve design is anything but standard, and the issue is not confined to this one user's luckless experience.

 

As the OP has since descended to the slanging-match level of poison that pervades this thread, I will make one last comment on his original post.: "when I was looking for my first pen,a lot of people on this website kept praising the 540, and right now I sorta feel cheated tbh :/ "

 

Surely given the checkered reliablity of the 540, and the convoluted servicing explanations given above, there are less involved and troublesome pens to begin the hobby with?

 

Off to clear my head of this poisonous thread.

 

Flounder, you cannot explain the engineering of load bearing structures and their failure modes to enthusiasts.

 

When the Tacoma Narrows Bridge fell into the Tacoma River, the then governor of the state made the statement "We are going to build the exact same bridge, exactly as before." He then received a telegram from a famous engineer saying "It will fall into the exact same river, exactly as before."

 

TWSBI chose a novel load bearing structure for their flagship pen. The physical laws of the rigidity of a rod under load (it's an uncomfortably strong scaling law) have bitten them.

 

A lot of people seem to believe that anger and customer service are the solution to the problem. But they aren't.

[size="4"]"[i][b][color="#000000"]Qui plume a, guerre a.[/color][/b][/i]" - Voltaire[/size]

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General question: are the feed and section assemblies different in design between the 530 and the 540?

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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Why not just throw it up on the classifieds? You're obviously not happy with the pen and its build quality. I know you would take a small loss, but it might be worth it to avoid the frustration. :thumbup:

Wanting to trade for samples of fountain pen friendly legal pad paper.

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Speedy suggested that you send the whole pen back to Phillip and he will repair it.

 

Your point?

 

I think what Koyote means to say is that, instead of asking Phillip to send you various parts, to get in touch with him and arrange to send your entire pen to Phillip. That way, Phillip could personally examine your pen to perhaps see if there was another reason yet-to-be identified that could be causing your pen to endure the same fate over and over again. And if that were the case, then it could be repaired by TWSBI and sent back to you in working condition so (hopefully) this wouldn't happen again.

 

Sorry to hear that you've had such bad luck with your 540 and that this has tainted your image of TWSBI as a company. I do think they are trying their best to help you, but it can be difficult to remedy such problems entirely through e-mail.

1959 Pelikan 400NN Flexible "F" | Pilot VP Matte Black, Binderized "EF" | TWSBI 580 with 0.6mm Pendleton Point Butter Line Stub | Waterman 0952 1/2v | Lamy Safari Charcoal "EF" and 1.1mm | Noodler's Konrad Fleur de Lis Blue Tortoise | Pilot Parallel 3.8mm

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Speedy suggested that you send the whole pen back to Phillip and he will repair it.

 

Your point?

 

My gosh, you really are thin-skinned and defensive, aren't you?

 

Speedy told you to send the whole pen to Phillip so that he could fix it; your reply to Speedy was:

 

"Speedy, I have contacted Philip multiple times, and he keeps sending me the same parts that don't work. Maybe I'll ask him to send me the 580's grip and barrel, but I doubt that will happen."

 

I was merely pointing out that Speedy suggested that you send the whole pen to Phillip, and that you seemed to have missed that. That was my point. If you weren't so busy defending yourself against imaginary attacks, you might have gotten the point.

 

Once again, someone tries to help you, and you snarl in response.

Edited by Koyote
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A lot of people seem to believe that anger and customer service are the solution to the problem. But they aren't.

 

True, excellent customer service is not going to fix basic and recurrent design problems. I think TWSBI should seek some external design help/expertise since their design revisions so far don't appear to have fixed the problems.

 

Why does the nib unit sleeve break repeatedly? The explanation appears identical to this interesting thread by Fountainbel, pertaining to a different badly engineered pen:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/240258-omas-paragon-repair/

In case you wish to write to me, pls use ONLY email by clicking here. I do not check PMs. Thank you.

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I'm interested in this novel section/feed arrangement chosen by TWSBI. Can anyone tell me how the TWSBI assembly differs from that of, say, the Sailor Pro-gear? I have both in front of me and they've both been disassembled by myself before, but I don't remember any major differences. I would disassemble them now and find out, but they're both full of ink.

Edited by Sleepy
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No one personally attacked you. Suggesting that you may have done something to cause the breakage of the pen is not an insult, it is an attempt to identify the problem. You need to realize that suggesting you may have done something wrong is not a personal attack or an insult. You should not take these statements personally. For example, I have no idea how to tune a piano. If I were to try and tune my piano and then ask a piano tuner "Why is my piano out of tune?" I would take his advice as a means of diagnosing what I did wrong. If he (or she) were to point out an error in my ways, it would not be as a personal insult, it would be as a suggestion. After all, I was the one who came looking for help.

 

If you cannot take suggestions in a reasonable manner, then don't ask for them. And as a non biased observer, I can assure you, you overreacted in an overly defensive manner. Despite your repeated accusations of "fanboy", people are trying to diagnose the problem and help you.

 

I own a 540, and your first pictures were of no help. I was sitting here with my pen looking at the screen and did not understand what you meant. It may have been clear to you, but I assure you it was very unclear to the rest of us.

 

I wonder if there is perhaps a manufacturing or assembly error with the nib/feed into the section. While the section only attaches to the barrel via the inner threaded collar, I believe the section itself still offers support against lateral movement and wiggle. If somehow the collar was not properly installed into the section, the collar/section would not line up properly when screwed into the barrel, thus leading to movement and breakage. Since you said that you did not receive a nib, I am assuming that you had to disassemble the section each time and reassemble it with the new parts provided to you by TWSBI. I am wondering if perhaps you assembled the section incorrectly which led to breakage.

 

Please understand that while the quality of these pens are not top notch, the fact that a fairly uncommon problem such as yours has occurred 5 times to you is likely an indication of user error. This type of breakage does not happen all that often and for you to have the same problem five times... well it would have to be a statistical anomaly for you to have received defective parts 5 times. Very unlikely. So you can see why people are led to believe you are doing something to cause the breakage and trying to diagnose what it might be, by asking you how you write, etc.

 

The other thought that occurred to me was perhaps it is not how you write or how you have assembled the pen, but how you transport it. Do you toss it into your schoolbag? carry it in a pocket? perhaps it is receiving abuse in transport and somehow weakening this part. It seems like a longshot since the cap protects the section, but maybe.

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Wow, lucky you.

 

Um I don't exactly know much pen terminology, but I would say I write with pretty light pressure. I nib never splits when I write. I use print, and I'm in high school atm. I use Noodler's BP black if that makes any difference. I wouldn't say I have the best handwriting, but it's not horrible. Don't really know how to answer your question, sorry.

 

Eeeverybody relax here, OK boys?

 

Handwriting and ink choice would have zero impact on this.

 

Whether or not the nib separates is *NOT* a good measure of whether or not you're using too much pressure. If the nib separates, you are using WAY WAY WAY too much pressure. If it doesn't separate, you may still be pressing too hard. Basically, you need to use ZERO pressure.

 

I don't own a Lamy or a TWSBI, but I have taught dozens of 18 to 23 year olds how to use a fountain pen. Writing with too much pressure is nearly universal for beginners. Including me, when I was that age.

 

OP, If you're in high school and you're not sure what constitutes over tightening and what under tightening, you must be a fairly new user. Just relax, we all started out that way. People here are very friendly, they just want to help.

 

Whether this is inexperience, or an engineering flaw, or a combination of both, anger never solves any problems.

 

edited for ps: ShallowJam makes an excellent point. Transport may be an underlying cause. I have heard of Lamy Safaris being run over by a pickup truck without taking any damage. So what's OK for the Lamy may be death for the TWSBI (or any other fp) ....

Edited by MaddyMarcel

Student of history, art, and life, writing the Encyclopedia of Retro-Modern Savoir-Faire

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After looking at my TWSBI pens, the part that seems to be failing is the feed retaining collar. If I'm not mistaken, this collar isn't actually manufactured by TWSBI. I can also see where the threads are machined or cast into the collar has a sharp edge which could cause a 'stress raiser' or a point that is more likely to fail. These collars are available from a variety of sources that sell pen turning supplies.

 

Looking objectively at the design, it appears to me if your in the habit of holding the pen high up on the barrel and not down on the grip section, it would put a bunch of stress on the plastic collar. This is likely not necessarily a design flaw or a user flaw, but simply a case of 'unintended consequences'. If the pen is assembled carefully, (not over tightened) and holding the pen down on the grip section it would likely never have a problem. Most pens using these collars (many custom pens by Newton and Edison, for example) have the collar threaded into the grip section, and then the grip is threaded onto the barrel. TWSBI's design is different so it can fill from their inkwell.

 

I would suggest that perhaps TWSBI might want to change the material or machining process on the collar (make their own) to alleviate the possibility of this particular failure (now wouldn't it be cool if this piece were made of a durable clear plastic as well, so you can see the ink in the feed it self...)

 

I've had my 530 (the 530, 540 and Mini are identical in design BTW) for a couple of years and I'm not experiencing any of the problems, but I also don't hold the pen high or unnecessarily unscrew the grip section. (I'm not accusing anyone of anything BTW)

 

To the OP, you should send the pen to Philip as Speedy as asked, you may be pleasantly surprised, if you still don't care for the pen you can always trade or sell it later for a different pen.

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A lot of people seem to believe that anger and customer service are the solution to the problem. But they aren't.

 

True, excellent customer service is not going to fix basic and recurrent design problems. I think TWSBI should seek some external design help/expertise since their design revisions so far don't appear to have fixed the problems.

 

Why does the nib unit sleeve break repeatedly? The explanation appears identical to this interesting thread by Fountainbel, pertaining to a different badly engineered pen:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/240258-omas-paragon-repair/

 

Hi Hari, you ask a good question. The load bearing ability of a beam under load (for example, a pen pressed onto paper) is proportional to the fourth power of the radius of the load bearing cylinder. Generally, the deflection scales similarly. On the 540, the load is borne by the threads on the outer diameter of feed sleeve and not the outer diameter of the barrel, as it is on most other pens.

 

I don't have measurements, but if the feed sleeve is half the diameter of the outside of the barrel, then the pen is experiencing deflection is use which is an order of magnitude greater than similar pens of conventional design. The net effect is that the fatigue lifetime of the pen is reduced by at least an order of magnitude or possibly several, depending on the characteristics of the plastics used. Most plastics have a narrow band of deflections within which they do not fatigue, and are bad at surviving fatigue loads for any length of time.

 

Conventional plastic pens are known to survive everyday use for at least a decade, so the rates of failure reported on this forum are in line with the explanation given here.

 

I used to read you on WUS f71 BTW, back in the day.

[size="4"]"[i][b][color="#000000"]Qui plume a, guerre a.[/color][/b][/i]" - Voltaire[/size]

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Please understand that while the quality of these pens are not top notch, the fact that a fairly uncommon problem such as yours has occurred 5 times to you is likely an indication of user error. This type of breakage does not happen all that often and for you to have the same problem five times... well it would have to be a statistical anomaly for you to have received defective parts 5 times. Very unlikely. So you can see why people are led to believe you are doing something to cause the breakage and trying to diagnose what it might be, by asking you how you write, etc.

Exactly so. Speaking as an engineer myself, if something breaks, I want to know why. I'm seeing a problem repeatedly occurring to to a particular part for a particular user. There are only two possibilities here: there is a fault in another part of this individual pen (not the part that is being repeatedly replaced) or user error. Given the juvenile attitude being shown by the OP, I'm more inclined to believe it's user error, but we shouldn't discount a problem in the rest of the pen.

 

The best thing for all concerned is for the OP to take up Speedy's offer, and send back the whole pen. This way he gets a working pen, and Speedy gets to diagnose what's actually going on here, and maybe engineer a solution that prevents the problem in future models.

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The best thing for all concerned is for the OP to take up Speedy's offer, and send back the whole pen. This way he gets a working pen, and Speedy gets to diagnose what's actually going on here, and maybe engineer a solution that prevents the problem in future models.

I couldn't agree more.

"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."

~ Benjamin Franklin

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Speedy suggested that you send the whole pen back to Phillip and he will repair it.

 

Your point?

 

My gosh, you really are thin-skinned and defensive, aren't you?

 

Speedy told you to send the whole pen to Phillip so that he could fix it; your reply to Speedy was:

 

"Speedy, I have contacted Philip multiple times, and he keeps sending me the same parts that don't work. Maybe I'll ask him to send me the 580's grip and barrel, but I doubt that will happen."

 

I was merely pointing out that Speedy suggested that you send the whole pen to Phillip, and that you seemed to have missed that. That was my point. If you weren't so busy defending yourself against imaginary attacks, you might have gotten the point.

 

Once again, someone tries to help you, and you snarl in response.

 

My gosh, you are are arrogant and assuming, aren't you?

I know Speedy told me to send the whole pen to Phillip so that he could fix it. I already emailed Philip about that. However, instead of having to go through that huge hassle of me having to send him my pen, I think it would be more beneficial for him to send me parts that actually work from the current model, instead of just fixing it with outdated parts. And even if he does fix it with 580 parts, I can just do that myself.

 

was merely pointing out that you and your friend Jon repeatedly make incorrect assumptions and insult me.

 

Once again, I make a statement, and someone insults me and makes incorrect assumptions in response.

Edited by John12

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