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Beyond A Wet Noodle? Lol!


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#21 thang1thang2

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 18:24

In that, you would be wrong. Although the print was commercially printed, Seb Lester hand-lettered the print before having it professionally printed. If you look through his photostream, which I linked to in another thread, you will see several pictures in which he was practicing the design for the print. You will also notice that he changed the design and practiced the flourishes multiple times before he came up with a finished product. It only takes one look through his online album to realize that the guy is a talented calligrapher, and I believe the print is the result of considerable ability with the pen AND some computer skill, rather than one or the other.


Ken and I actually discussed this calligrapher once. While he did write it, he smoothed all of the lines in post, he added some flourishes in post, and he outlined it, converted it to vector format, and modified it as needed (like the little hollow point inside the letters) in post. The writing, while good, is only about 40% of the composition, and it has been very modified. It's still better than I can do, but it's not something I would consider 'hand lettered' in the true sense of the phrase.

#22 medicalcpa

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 18:39

Ken and I actually discussed this calligrapher once. While he did write it, he smoothed all of the lines in post, he added some flourishes in post, and he outlined it, converted it to vector format, and modified it as needed (like the little hollow point inside the letters) in post. The writing, while good, is only about 40% of the composition, and it has been very modified. It's still better than I can do, but it's not something I would consider 'hand lettered' in the true sense of the phrase.


That may be true, but I wasn't saying that the print was completely hand-lettered. That's why I said that the print was the result of a combination of skill with the pen and the computer. Any calligraphy that is printed by a computer has most likely undergone editing. But I disagree with Ken's assertion that "the lettering on the prints comprises computer fonts and not handwriting." He edited it for printing, but he was editing something that he had already written by hand.

...Sorry for derailing the topic of the thread.

Edited by medicalcpa, 15 January 2013 - 18:40.


#23 MusinkMan

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 20:40

...Sorry for derailing the topic of the thread.


Nah bro, don't apologize for that. This is all very interesting to me. Enjoying it!
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#24 Caliken

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 21:29

In that, you would be wrong. Although the print was commercially printed, Seb Lester hand-lettered the print before having it professionally printed. If you look through his photostream, which I linked to in another thread, you will see several pictures in which he was practicing the design for the print. You will also notice that he changed the design and practiced the flourishes multiple times before he came up with a finished product. It only takes one look through his online album to realize that the guy is a talented calligrapher, and I believe the print is the result of considerable ability with the pen AND some computer skill, rather than one or the other.


Yes, yes...the link after your link to the photostream shows him actually writing it. Amazing!

Can you supply a link to this photostream, as I can't find it?

Ken

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#25 medicalcpa

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 21:41

Can you supply a link to this photostream, as I can't find it?

Ken


Sure, it's here.

I must warn you that there are lots of swear words in his work. I find them beautiful nonetheless, but they may offend.

Edited by medicalcpa, 15 January 2013 - 21:42.


#26 Caliken

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 21:51

In that, you would be wrong. Although the print was commercially printed, Seb Lester hand-lettered the print before having it professionally printed. If you look through his photostream, which I linked to in another thread, you will see several pictures in which he was practicing the design for the print. You will also notice that he changed the design and practiced the flourishes multiple times before he came up with a finished product. It only takes one look through his online album to realize that the guy is a talented calligrapher, and I believe the print is the result of considerable ability with the pen AND some computer skill, rather than one or the other.


I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Taking "The Voice of all the Gods" for example. He is shown on the video handlettering roughs in preparation for the finished artwork. The implication is that hand lettered work was used for the finished print, but this is not the case. The lettering on the finished print was produced by amending/altering/retouching fonts with no hand lettering involved.
This, of course, is a legitimate practice and he is obviously a talented, imaginative designer, but it is not calligraphy.
He was not editing something that he had already written by hand.

Ken

Edited by caliken, 18 January 2013 - 21:54.

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#27 thang1thang2

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 22:10

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Taking "The Voice of all the Gods" for example. He is shown on the video handlettering roughs in preparation for the finished artwork. The implication is that hand lettered work was used for the finished print, but this is not the case. The lettering on the finished print was produced by amending/altering/retouching fonts with no hand lettering involved.
This, of course, is a legitimate practice and he is obviously a talented, imaginative designer, but it is not calligraphy.
He was not editing something that he had already written by hand.

Ken



The work flow for this is actually rather easy to copy. He would do a rough handlettering to find out a couple things

1) kerning
2) how he'll do the flourishes
3) how he'll modify certain letters to make it original

Then he writes out the words in illustrator using a variety of different fonts (maybe he likes the 'e' and 'f' from one font, and the 'd' and 'g' from another font) about 3-5 fonts will be used in total. He'll the convert the fonts into outlines and then modify the outlines to make everything flow together (maybe one font is 1/16th of an inch thicker than another in the swells, he'll fix that) once he does that then he'll make flourishes, convert them to lines and then modify them until complete.

He's handlettering only to save himself a couple hours of tinkering around with layouts and kerning in illustrator. Once he's inside, it's 0% organic and 100% computer generated. If he scans in something, it would still end up being almost 70-85% computer generated when he was done, as every letter would've been modified.

#28 medicalcpa

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 22:36

Since Mr Lester isn't on this board, we won't know how he did his work. I'm not going to keep saying I believe the prints were initially hand-lettered because
1. While that may be what I think, I don't know if that is the case, and I won't be changing anyone's mind regardless.
2. I'm not his apologist. I admire his work, but he is one of several calligraphers whose work I admire.

I think we can agree that the print in question is a beautiful example in flourishing, regardless of how it was produced. Handwritten flourishes, in the genuine sense of the term, abound on the Internet, several even on this forum.

#29 GClef

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 23:14

Putting on my pedantic hat...The scrolly thing is a flourish. :P


Posted Image

>>> Ennyn Durin <<<


#30 WestLothian

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 23:47

'tis but a G-clef recumbent, horizontal :)

I feel a flourish should be more extrovert and involve more criss-cross and compound curves.

The Conklin looks great and also manageable in the fine hairlines.

Edited by WestLothian, 18 January 2013 - 23:55.


#31 GClef

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:46

'tis but a G-clef recumbent, horizontal :)
I feel a flourish should be more extrovert and involve more criss-cross and compound curves.


Posted Image

>>> Ennyn Durin <<<


#32 Caliken

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:11

For those with an interest in flexible-nib flourishing, have a look at Daniel T. Ames Guide to Self Instruction in Practical and Artistic Penmanship. It's free to download from the IAMPETH site and it's well worth a read as it's full of useful instructions, including details of how to hold a straight penholder fitted with a flexible nib. There are some examples of flourishing exercises at the end of the book.

Ken

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