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Noodler's Legal Lapis


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#21 Yoda4561

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 09:00

Blue heron is another high maintenence ink in this color family. It behaves similarly to blue bonnet, maybe a bit worse. The deposits are dissolved rapidly with ammonia or pen cleaner, and even when it's dried "solid" for a while it will usually get wiped away by a piston or converter with a firm twist. I'd be wary of using them in hard to clean pen mechanisms (the "power filler" mechanism visconti uses comes to mind).

Inks like Bulletproof Black, Legal Lapis, and most other cellulose reactive bulletproofs almost never completely solidify, and will present no resistance to a piston even after months of being "dried out". They also flush out with the application of water alone.

#22 notbob

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:44

Inks like Bulletproof Black, Legal Lapis, and most other cellulose reactive bulletproofs almost never completely solidify


Ummmm..... so what is this "bulletproof" of which we speak?

If it smears for months, how is it bulletproof? Yes, I realize only the blue smears. I can now see that on the very wet 1.5mm lines I layed down 24 hrs ago. So it's really half BP and half never-dry. Swell. Another HUGE bottle of weird ink. It has great shading, red sheen, but will make a mess in perpetuity. So, I can fill out my legal documents and they will never lose the black line, but will look like a train wreck if something should happen to brush across them. Something like a OTHER PAPERS! ....of which we never ever see more than one legal document. As if.

I'm getting tired of this Noodler double talk. "Bulletproof". "Eternal". What nonsense. Yes, I've seen the Bernanke ink video with Nathan hilariously pounding and flailing away at a sheet of paper like a demented loon. Yet those inks are not classified as permanent anything, not even water-resistant. What exactly are they, other than Nathan-proof? ;)

So, my question now is, does anyone make an true true "archival" ink that permanently dries? Preferably, a blue-green/black. I'm not holding my breath, but will continue to explore. Next is PR Ebony Blue. I guess I should also put pen to that bottle of pre-ban Pelikan 4001 Blu/blk I was lucky enough to snag. Any other suggestions?

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#23 tonybelding

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 13:03

If it smears for months, how is it bulletproof? Yes, I realize only the blue smears.


Which ink are you talking about that smears? Legal Lapis doesn't.


I can now see that on the very wet 1.5mm lines I layed down 24 hrs ago. So it's really half BP and half never-dry. Swell. Another HUGE bottle of weird ink. It has great shading, red sheen, but will make a mess in perpetuity.


I have never seen Legal Lapis behave in the way you describe. It dries quickly and I've never seen a "red sheen".

If yours is doing this, then I'd suspect you are either using a very dense paper and very wet pen, which is not allowing all the ink to soak into the page, or else something is wrong with your bottle of ink. It could be too concentrated, and you need to dilute it. That has been known to happen once in a while with Noodler's inks. (You might try one part water to two parts ink, just as an experiment, and see what happens.)


I'm getting tired of this Noodler double talk. "Bulletproof". "Eternal". What nonsense.


It's not nonsense. It's amazing stuff when it's working right -- which it does for most of us. It doesn't stain most surfaces (even comes off skin easily) but bonds quickly and permanently with paper. I've hit it with water, alcohol, ammonia, bleach... nothing phases it.


So, my question now is, does anyone make an true true "archival" ink that permanently dries? Preferably, a blue-green/black.


Legal Lapis is exactly what you describe. You should take some time to figure out why it's not working for you, because the problems you described are quite unusual.

#24 Yoda4561

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 13:12

Inks like Bulletproof Black, Legal Lapis, and most other cellulose reactive bulletproofs almost never completely solidify


Ummmm..... so what is this "bulletproof" of which we speak?

If it smears for months, how is it bulletproof?

So, my question now is, does anyone make an true true "archival" ink that permanently dries? Preferably, a blue-green/black. I'm not holding my breath, but will continue to explore. Next is PR Ebony Blue. I guess I should also put pen to that bottle of pre-ban Pelikan 4001 Blu/blk I was lucky enough to snag. Any other suggestions?



They only don't dry IN THE PEN. On paper, once all the ink reacts with the fibers (it's a chemical reaction, only takes a few seconds unless your pen is very wet or the paper is non-absorbent) it's permanent, non smearing, non-anything under anything that won't destroy the paper. This is most of the bulletproof/eternal inks that Noodler's makes. This is my favorite kind of ink, since you can use it in any pen with no worries about it being a cleaning nightmare later, but is 100% permanent on paper.

A few bulletproof labeled inks like Blue heron and Texas blue bonnet don't work using the same cellulose chemical reaction, but by drying, which is great for pens that throw tons of ink on the page, but bad for pens that are hard to clean. They're also kinda handy to have around if you don't mind the extra cleaning hassle because they work great with wet pens and non absorbent paper once it's had a few minutes to fully dry.

#25 notbob

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 13:23

They only don't dry IN THE PEN. On paper, once all the ink reacts with the fibers (it's a chemical reaction, only takes a few seconds unless your pen is very wet or the paper is non-absorbent)


This might be the case. I layed down 1.5mm lines of LL on Tomoe River paper about 12 hrs ago (not 24 hrs). It still smears blue like crazy. Even the drier 1mm lines smear a tad. I'll try some more absorbent paper, as TR paper is quite .....??.... hard? I mean, for such a thin paper, it's very bleed-through resistant. Even more so than Rhodia and CF. I'll try some HP1124, which is the paper I'll probably be using for legal docs.
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#26 notbob

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:22

As usual, I put my foot in my mouth before having all the facts. Disregard everything I said, as this LL ink is really a great ink on the right paper. That Tomoe River paper is jes so hard. Many inks are jes not fully absorbed by it. No wonder everything sheens so nicely on it, even b-proof black. I layed down some LL on Rhodia dotpad. Heavenly. Doesn't smear, dries fairly quickly, shades nicely, even in my 1.5 Safari, which is a fire hose. I love the color. I've got it in 3 pens, now, with 3 diff width nibs. M, B, and 1.5mm. A wet ink which flows nicely and has yet to stall or skip in any pen. This ink makes me want to sit and practice my italic hand, it looks soooo gorgeous when done right. I hafta say this is the first ink I've run across that really makes writing with a fountain pen fun. A GREAT ink. I'm glad I bought a bottle.

TIP: I noticed when flushing LL in a white enamel sink, the blue quickly washed away, but the black appears to stain the enamel. Not to fret. 409 easily removes the bogus stain.

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#27 tonybelding

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:11

A few bulletproof labeled inks like Blue heron and Texas blue bonnet don't work using the same cellulose chemical reaction, but by drying...


I don't think that's exactly right. As far as I can tell, Texas Blue Bonnet is "mostly " cellulose-reactive. There's only a faint cyan component that rinses out, but the remaining blue-black stain looks and behaves very much like the other bulletproof inks.




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