Quick Question About New Pens

[Sailor Kenshin]

So if i combine the answers given so far, we can conclude that although nib issues are very common even on the big pen makers(like Tim Girdler stated), chinese pens are good writers out of the box(what iamchum and Sailor Kenshin said).

So we should all stop buying expensive pens from pelikan and parker and focus more on chinese pens, which are always quality objects.

 

I don't think this to be a fair assessment about the Chinese pens. When we compare the "big" brands (Pelikan, Montblanc, etc.) to the Chinese pens, we are, basically, comparing apples and Volkswagens.

 

Most pen aficionados do stay away from Chinese nibs, and there is a reason for this. Most of the metal is thin and the quality control is very poor. On the Pelikans, and Montblancs, however, the quality of the nib itself is quite good. It's just that the finish job (the ball of tipping) is larger than what it should be, too much baby's bottom, etc. The quality of the Chinese nibs themselves, usually, don't hold a candle to the German nibs.

 

Any pen can have a misaligned nib. Perhaps a nib was aligned before it went on the feed and was placed in the pen. Depending how the nib sits on the feed, the tines can (and do) go out of alignment. Also, whomever is placing the nibs into these pens is not likely a nibmeister. Therefore, quality control in alignment is likely not a concern.

 

Many of the Chinese pens I have, after some work, have become quite good pens. I have a Kaigelu that I worked on to make a horrendously ugly broad, barrel-tipped nib into a beautifully writing fine-medium. I have several of the "Bulow" pens (one of which I really like, but it has an after-market nib in it). But, those Bulow nibs have been nothing to write home about.

 

Most of my current collecting is centered on vintage pens. I'm looking to start restoring and flipping Parker Vacumatics and "51"s. Those nibs, of course, are quite different than the modern nibs we're discussing here.

 

Also...and this is important, I think: Most Chinese pens do not come in anything other than a cartridge/converter filling system. While the c/c system is easiest--and therefore the most widely used--it isn't necessarily the best. A good, solid piston-filler is, likely, a much more reliable and durable pen. So, again, the apples-to-Volkswagens thing.

 

Tim

 

Actually MOST chinese pens come with those metal-sleeve bulb squeezers. I wish more came with c/c because that is my preference.

[TimGirdler]

 

Actually MOST chinese pens come with those metal-sleeve bulb squeezers. I wish more came with c/c because that is my preference.

 

Really?! That's interesting. I have not seen those "bulb squeezers," but I'll keep my eye out for them.

 

Tim

[Gcouch]

I've never had a missalignment issue with a brand new pen before, granted I only buy European pens. I once had a Waterman Hemisphere that was a bit rough, but it worked itself out in a few days. Used pens are hit or miss, but you should be able tto fix it yourself. Missalignment is easy to fix.

[Sailor Kenshin]

They (the Chinese bulb-fillers) aren't detachable, and are often (incorrectly, I'm told) referred to as 'aerometric.'

 

Standard issue on the Hero 616 and my trio of Guanleming pens.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Sailor Kenshin

[51ISH]

 

Actually MOST chinese pens come with those metal-sleeve bulb squeezers. I wish more came with c/c because that is my preference.

 

Really?! That's interesting. I have not seen those "bulb squeezers," but I'll keep my eye out for them.

 

Tim

 

 

They (the Chinese bulb-fillers) aren't detachable, and are often (incorrectly, I'm told) referred to as 'aerometric.'

 

Standard issue on the Hero 616 and my trio of Guanleming pens.

 

 

Actually all my Chinese pens bar one (Beijing Jinxing a metal sleeve bulb squeezer-without the metal sleeve :roflmho: ) are c/c .... :hmm1:

Edited December 6, 2012 by 51ISH

[BrandonA]

Do pen nibs that dont write smoothly out of the box generally only out of alienment? Or is it common for there to be other issues like feed alignment, baby bottom etc?

 

I'd expect a pen to write perfectly out of the box. I'd imagine when issues arise they could do though for a range of issues. Is there a particular manufacturer that you've had issues with?

[tandaina]

Cheap Chinese pens needing some adjustment don't bother me. (Though mine have all written very nicely without tweaking.) I expect something coming off a factory line that costs < $5 to have quality control inconsistencies.

 

Where I DON'T get it is in the high end lines. A brand new Montblanc (which cost minimum, what, $300?), Visconti, etc having issues? NOT acceptable.

 

Since I regularly live in the camera world here's an analogy. The cheap single use film cameras you can buy the grocery store sometimes have quality issues. People shrug and move on, they're cheap. But if I bought a hand made Leica camera and had to send it off to a "meister" to get it "adjusted" straight out of the box? I'd be sending the thing back to Leica instead and demand they made it right! And if it happened more than once, I wouldn't be buying another Leica, nor recommending them.

 

I just don't get it. For the high end luxury pens there's no excuse for not having them inked up, tested, and adjusted to a basic standard before they leave the factory. Just no excuse.

[TimGirdler]

Cheap Chinese pens needing some adjustment don't bother me. (Though mine have all written very nicely without tweaking.) I expect something coming off a factory line that costs < $5 to have quality control inconsistencies.

 

Where I DON'T get it is in the high end lines. A brand new Montblanc (which cost minimum, what, $300?), Visconti, etc having issues? NOT acceptable.

 

Since I regularly live in the camera world here's an analogy. The cheap single use film cameras you can buy the grocery store sometimes have quality issues. People shrug and move on, they're cheap. But if I bought a hand made Leica camera and had to send it off to a "meister" to get it "adjusted" straight out of the box? I'd be sending the thing back to Leica instead and demand they made it right! And if it happened more than once, I wouldn't be buying another Leica, nor recommending them.

 

I just don't get it. For the high end luxury pens there's no excuse for not having them inked up, tested, and adjusted to a basic standard before they leave the factory. Just no excuse.

 

I (and many others, I'm sure) would agree with you completely. However, as we know, this isn't reality. As I said earlier, there is a reason those who are recognized nibmeisters like Mottishaw and Binder tune every pen that goes out of their shops, no matter who made it. It isn't a gimmick, it isn't a novelty, it is absolutely necessary for a properly-writing pen.

 

It shouldn't be this way, but it is.

 

Tim

[XiaoMG]

As far as I've been able to tell, imperfect nibs are the norm. The degree of imperfection varies, but is often more than simply alignment. This applies to the third-party nib grinders as well as the big impersonal manufacturers. The problems become more apparent as you get finer, but folks seem to be good at ignoring even quite large flaws. It can be a little frustrating at times if you have a discerning enough eye.

 

It's interesting how many quiet stories there are in the background--in emails and private messages--of mediocre results from some of the most esteemed public names, both "meisters" and manufacturers. It is a shame that much of it, which might be revealing and helpful to others, is not considered welcome here. I actually entertained the idea of collecting such stories and publishing them on a blog somewhere, but don't have the time for such an endeavor now.

Edited December 7, 2012 by XiaoMG

[TimGirdler]

 

So arent people a bit reluctant to buy used pens? And are they covered under warranties?

 

And do I have a baby bottom? My Lamy Studio writes very smoothly in all directions and keeps up, is very smooth however it is a hard starter especially in certain directions. Usually dipping the nib in ink solves the problem but only temporarily. (few minutes).

 

It does sound, from what you are describing, that baby's bottom is a possibility. Baby's bottom is fixable, but one has to know what they're doing--otherwise the nib will die, usually quickly. Contact me, if you wish, through my website (link below).

 

Tim

[wallylynn]

The manufacturers want their pens to write smoothly so they put bigger balls of tipping material on the tip of the nib. The bigger ball holds the slit away from the paper so pens, even if properly aligned, will start hard and skip.

 

Wha? This makes no sense to me. The slit always contacts the paper. How is it ever further away? Baby bottom is the only way I know of that keeps the slit away from the paper. Do you mean the tip is far away from the feed and dries up?

[iamchum]

So if i combine the answers given so far, we can conclude that although nib issues are very common even on the big pen makers(like Tim Girdler stated), chinese pens are good writers out of the box(what iamchum and Sailor Kenshin said).

So we should all stop buying expensive pens from pelikan and parker and focus more on chinese pens, which are always quality objects.

 

I'm sorry for not making it black and white for you, but, can you just simply stop generalizing. Please accept the fact that the world is made up of greys and every pen maker has their faults, no pen is perfect, but not every pen is a lemon either. You have as much luck getting a nib unaligned out of the box and you do getting one perfectly aligned, with just shades of in between. Get a loupe and learn to align them yourself. I have, and I always tune my nibs to how I would like to write with them, that is not necessarily how the manufacturer would have it, nor the next person in this forum.

 

Cheap Chinese pens needing some adjustment don't bother me. (Though mine have all written very nicely without tweaking.) I expect something coming off a factory line that costs < $5 to have quality control inconsistencies.

 

Where I DON'T get it is in the high end lines. A brand new Montblanc (which cost minimum, what, $300?), Visconti, etc having issues? NOT acceptable.

 

Since I regularly live in the camera world here's an analogy. The cheap single use film cameras you can buy the grocery store sometimes have quality issues. People shrug and move on, they're cheap. But if I bought a hand made Leica camera and had to send it off to a "meister" to get it "adjusted" straight out of the box? I'd be sending the thing back to Leica instead and demand they made it right! And if it happened more than once, I wouldn't be buying another Leica, nor recommending them.

 

I just don't get it. For the high end luxury pens there's no excuse for not having them inked up, tested, and adjusted to a basic standard before they leave the factory. Just no excuse.

 

I have a MB, a visconti and a leica. Their expense is not loaded up front. Admittedly some would see them as prestige pens, they are simply tools. The reality is, you mentioned hand made, and, for the most part, they are, which means there are variances in production. Where the expense comes in is their after market service. The reason I write with a 149 is that i know, no matter what happens, I can call their shop on collins st, tell them whats wrong, and I can have it repaired. The same goes with leica and visconti. It's never about the labour and the materials used, the salamancan school of economics already disproved that, its about a complex matrix that includes, but is definitely not limited to labour costs, materials, marketing, sales support, distribution, demand, supply, and, admittedly, some level of exclusivity.

 

Like I said, it isnt enough for these pens to be tested at the factory. Once they leave the factory, they will end up in the hands of someone, who, inevitably, will not write the same way as the tester, and adverse reactions can occur. With thousands of pens sold of a particular model, there will, of course, be a few that require adjustment, a few that require replacement, and many will simply write acceptably to begin with. No nib is ever a lost cause, and, if you are serious about maintaining your writing instruments, you should get some tools and learn out to maintain them yourself, or make sure you know someone who can reliably to it for you.

 

I am not a fan of the whinging consumer, moping at the first sign of adversity, having spend several years on the other end of the conversation dealing with such people. The reality is we live in unprecedented times of material consumption. To have failure rates of less than 5% in anything would have been considered splendid three decades ago and ludicrous half a century ago. That is a percentage less than the accepted figure for random chance.

 

I do not accept the view that every high priced pen is supposed to be perfect, because, no matter how high the price is, imperfection will always exist. Yours and my experience with one pen is far too small a sample size to be indicative of the entire brand, and you should treat it as such.

 

Wha? This makes no sense to me. The slit always contacts the paper. How is it ever further away? Baby bottom is the only way I know of that keeps the slit away from the paper. Do you mean the tip is far away from the feed and dries up?

 

When baby's bottom occurs, it is not that the slit is not "touching" the paper, its the fact that the tip of the nib is so rounded off that the ink cannot reach the paper as the capillary action that draws the ink down the nib is stopped before it reaches the paper i.e. the roundness of the nib end is like a baby's bum. It is so round it is too wide to facilitate capilliary action, which is required for the ink to reach the paper surface.

 

Richard Binder has an excellent explanation of it here:

 

http://www.richardspens.com/ref/nibs/primer.htm

[Pelikan_FP]

I agree with the statement that any fountain pen manufacturer can produce pens that don't write as well as you expect regardless of the initial price tag. Random chance aside, you may not notice difficulties with the pen if it was a "cheaper" pen (define that whatever way you want) but you will probably notice it on the more "expensive" pen. That is because of your higher perceptions and expectations about the brand/pen.

 

On a personal experience note, I've really enjoyed my Pilot Custom Heritage 92 medium right out of the box with no flushing or fiddling required; it starts writing every time all the time without fuss. On the other hand, my Pelikan M215 medium which had its nib replaced once with another stainless medium nib both were having difficulties starting out of the box.

[JonDoh]

I've had great luck with every Pelikan I ever bought, and I own several, writing perfectly right out of the box. With every other brand not so. What I do now if I'm going to buy a non Pelikan pen is to buy from one of the penstores that checks and adjusts the nib for you. Two of my favorite are Nibs dot com and Richard Binder. They can also smooth those nasty rough and scratchy nibs for you to as well as perform repairs on your pens. But in general I avoid any of the Chinese stuff. I know there are fans here, but they are (bleep). There is a world of difference between Chinese Watermans and those made in France. Same with Cross and any number of other brands. As for the Chinese brands themselves, there are several that are really nice looking, but every one I have bought has been garbage and couldn't be adjusted to be useful.

[Sailor Kenshin]

What I truly believe is that pens find US, and they love us...not the other way round.

 

I was puzzled by so many bad reviews of Chinese pens until I realized this fact.