Jump to content

The Fountain Pen Network uses (functional) cookies. Read the FPN Privacy Policy for more info.  To remove this message, please click here to accept the use of cookies


Registration on the Fountain Pen Network

Dearest Visitor of the little Fountain Pen Nut house on the digital prairie,

Due to the enormous influx of spammers, it is no longer possible to handle valditions in the traditional way. For registrations we therefore kindly and respectfully request you to send an email with your request to our especially created email address. This email address is register at fountainpennetwork dot com. Please include your desired user name, and after validation we will send you a return email containing the validation key, normally wiithin a week.

Thank you very much in advance!
The FPN Admin Team






Photo

Rohrer & Klingner Salix


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 jgrasty

jgrasty

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,977 posts
  • Location:Dallas TX
  • Flag:

Posted 19 November 2012 - 23:46

At the last Dallas Pen Show, I purchased a bottle of Rohrer & Klingner Salix, an iron gall ink. I love iron gall inks, as they perform magnificently in pens with flexible nibs. Typically, iron gall inks exhibit great shading and water resistance, resistance to feathering and generally perform well on poor paper. Salix exhibits all these characteristics, and is a lovely blue-black ink, without a trace of green that some iron gall inks show.

Like most iron gall inks, Salix starts out of the pen with a bright blue tint, but it rapidly oxidizes to the traditional blue-black that most would recognize as an iron gall ink. Salix oxidizes to blue-gray in 20-30 seconds, and the color is stable after that point. The ink is dry, so a nib on the wetter side is most useful with this ink. Shading is quite impressive; there is some shading even with very narrow nibs.

Below is a scan of Salix, written with a number of different pens.

  • Wahl Lady Doric with adjustable XXF nib.
  • Pelikan M700 Toledo with BB nib.
  • Pelikan M450 with EF nib.
  • Pelikan M800 with M nib converted to cursive italic by Mike Masuyama.
  • Pelikan M200 with M nib.
  • Waterman 52 with XF flex nib.

I've included swabs from two other iron-gall inks, Montblanc Blue-Black and Lamy Blue-Black. Montblanc Blue-Black is no longer available, but I understand the currently available Montblanc Midnight Blue is identical. Lamy Blue-Black is rumored to be changing from iron-gall to a normal ink, but I've not seen a definitive answer on that. The bottle of Lamy Blue-Black I have is clearly an iron-gall blue-black ink, as it exhibits the same characteristics as Salix and Montblanc Blue-Black. Salix is quite close in color to Lamy Blue-Black, but Montblanc Blue-Black has more gray in it. I also have a bottle of Diamine Registrar's Ink; unfortunately, that ink has changed color and isn't representative of the ink you would get from a new bottle, so I didn't include a swab. You can see the color shifted Diamine Registrar's Ink in an iron-gall ink comparison I did a while back.

Salix doesn't feather, even on newsprint. On quality paper, such as the Rhodia No 18 lined paper in the scan, there is no bleed through and show-through is minimal. On cheap copier paper, there's bleed-through only with the wettest nibs, and no feathering at all.

Drying time varied from a few seconds for the narrower nibs to nearly a minute for the very wet Waterman 52.

Posted Image

Salix is quite water resistant, losing only a little of the blue from the blue-gray and leaving behind seemingly all of the gray. Here is a sample of the ink after a 15 second rinse.

Posted Image

Finally, I made a paper chromatography sample for the ink geeks. The paper, cut from a coffee filter, was immediately dipped into water before the ink had a chance to dry.

Posted Image

Salix is a wonderful ink, with beautiful shading and excellent water resistance. Since it is iron gall, proper pen hygiene must be maintained and never, ever allow this ink to dry in your pen, or you'll have a difficult time cleaning it out.

Edited by jgrasty, 20 November 2012 - 04:31.

Regards,

Joey

http://flexiblenib.com


Sponsored Content

#2 lapis

lapis

    medium rare

  • FPN Super Moderators

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,433 posts
  • Location:West Berlin
  • Flag:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 00:40

Great review but in all humbleness may I say the following:[a] First of all, Montblanc Blue-Black and/or the curently issued Midnight Blue (which is the same as their old "blue-black" with a few improvments like on flow etc) ) is still available. [b] There is no real sense in including a paper chromatography of one single ink without doing at the same time in parallel another ink in question. Unless of couse, this has already been done elsewhere by somebody else, and you add a link to it.
No harm meant.Mike

Life is too short to drink bad wine (Goethe)


#3 JonSzanto

JonSzanto

    You do, indeed, only live once.

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,383 posts

Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:30

Below is a scan of Salix, written with a number of different pens.

  • Wahl Lady Doric with adjustable XXF nib.
  • Pelikan M700 Toledo with BB nib.
  • Pelikan M450 with EF nib.
  • Pelikan M800 with M nib converted to cursive italic by Mike Masuyama.
  • Pelikan M200 with M nib.
  • Waterman 52 with XF flex nib.
Since it is iron gall, proper pen hygiene must be maintained and never, ever allow this ink to dry in your pen, or you'll have a difficult time cleaning it out.


Hope you don't mind a question with regard to usage: you note six pens - were these filled just for the test, and then emptied and cleaned? I would like to have one pen dedicated to iron gall ink (I have ESSRI at the moment), but I'd like to have a pen inked up with it, and not have to ink something for each use and then expelling the unused ink. Is it "proper hygiene" enough to clean the pen between fillings? I've got a couple pens I would really like to use with an IG ink, but I don't want to put the somewhat-vintage filling systems through the rigors of the chemistry.
"When Men differ in Opinion, both Sides ought equally to have the Advantage of being heard by the Publick; and that when Truth and Error have fair Play, the former is always an overmatch for the latter."
~ Benjamin Franklin

#4 jgrasty

jgrasty

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,977 posts
  • Location:Dallas TX
  • Flag:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 03:59

Below is a scan of Salix, written with a number of different pens.

  • Wahl Lady Doric with adjustable XXF nib.
  • Pelikan M700 Toledo with BB nib.
  • Pelikan M450 with EF nib.
  • Pelikan M800 with M nib converted to cursive italic by Mike Masuyama.
  • Pelikan M200 with M nib.
  • Waterman 52 with XF flex nib.
Since it is iron gall, proper pen hygiene must be maintained and never, ever allow this ink to dry in your pen, or you'll have a difficult time cleaning it out.


Hope you don't mind a question with regard to usage: you note six pens - were these filled just for the test, and then emptied and cleaned? I would like to have one pen dedicated to iron gall ink (I have ESSRI at the moment), but I'd like to have a pen inked up with it, and not have to ink something for each use and then expelling the unused ink. Is it "proper hygiene" enough to clean the pen between fillings? I've got a couple pens I would really like to use with an IG ink, but I don't want to put the somewhat-vintage filling systems through the rigors of the chemistry.


Yes, all the pens except the Wahl were flushed free of the ink after the test. I'm still using Salix in the Wahl. If you fill a pen with iron gall ink and use it frequently, there is no need to flush and clean until you change inks. Just never let the ink dry in the pen. If you don't plan to use it for a week, flush it, and you'll never have to worry about damaging your pen.

Keep in mind that iron gall inks have been around for centuries, and were commonly used during the "vintage" period of the Wahl Doric and Waterman 52. Iron-gall inks were expected to be used in these pens, and there's no reason not to use them today.

Regards,

Joey

http://flexiblenib.com


#5 jgrasty

jgrasty

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,977 posts
  • Location:Dallas TX
  • Flag:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 04:33

Great review but in all humbleness may I say the following:[a] First of all, Montblanc Blue-Black and/or the curently issued Midnight Blue (which is the same as their old "blue-black" with a few improvments like on flow etc) ) is still available. [b] There is no real sense in including a paper chromatography of one single ink without doing at the same time in parallel another ink in question. Unless of couse, this has already been done elsewhere by somebody else, and you add a link to it.
No harm meant.Mike


Thanks for your comments. I edited the text of my original post to make it clear that I meant Montblanc Blue-Black is no longer available, and that Montblanc Midnight Blue is one of their current inks.

I included the paper chromatography so that a reference is available that could be compared to other inks, or if Salix were to be re-formulated.

Regards,

Joey

http://flexiblenib.com


#6 The Good Captain

The Good Captain

    Gaston F Limoges

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,775 posts
  • Location:Shropshire, Great Britain
  • Flag:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:16

A great review of my favourite IG ink. I've a Pelikan M200 using only Salix now and they get on just fine. Also, I use the Lamy in a Swan 3340 which has a lovely semi-flex nib but is incredibly wet so the Lamy just tames it a little. I suppose I could use ESSRI in it but I like the semblance of blue left after the Lamy has gone through its behaviour routine on the paper.

The Good Captain
 
"Meddler's 'Salamander' - almost as good as the real thing!"


#7 Sandy1

Sandy1

    Minty

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,902 posts
  • Location:Voodoo Convent

Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:17

Hi,

Many thanks for your Review of Salix! :thumbup:

Being such a malleable ink, I am always interested to see how this ink responds to various pens & papers, and the hand of the person writing. Clearly you have 'showcased' this ink. :clap1:

Salix does well from just about any pen of adequate wetness, yet I have come to prefer the softer flexi nibs which generate a certain something with this ink.

I have no hesitation to use this ink in any of my vintage pens, including eyedroppers, wherein barrel and ink make direct contact.

Bye,
S1

The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.


#8 stefanv

stefanv

    Casual Collector and Experimenter

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 886 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada
  • Flag:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 15:21

Thanks for the review! I too love this ink, and use it to tame my very wet Pelikan 140.
Stefan Vorkoetter

Visit my collection of fountain pen articles at StefanV.com.

A pen from my collection:
Posted Image

#9 michelim

michelim

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 195 posts
  • Flag:

Posted 20 November 2012 - 15:24

thanks for the review :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Posted Image

#10 Gretchen

Gretchen

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 143 posts
  • Location:Boston

Posted 21 November 2012 - 15:43

Hi,

This is a wonderful review, thank you! And I lose geek points for admitting it, but I've not seen the chromatography before -- gorgeous! Is it showing the colors that go into making this ink? And what size is the strip of coffee filter? Do you dip it in the bottle of ink, then immediately rinse it off?

Thanks,
Gretchen

#11 jgrasty

jgrasty

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,977 posts
  • Location:Dallas TX
  • Flag:

Posted 21 November 2012 - 20:26

Hi,

This is a wonderful review, thank you! And I lose geek points for admitting it, but I've not seen the chromatography before -- gorgeous! Is it showing the colors that go into making this ink? And what size is the strip of coffee filter? Do you dip it in the bottle of ink, then immediately rinse it off?

Thanks,
Gretchen


Paper chromatography is quite easy. Cut s strip of suitable paper about 3 inches long (I use a coffee filter), write a line of ink on the paper about an 1/4" from the bottom, and immediately dip into enough water to draw the ink all the way to the top of the paper. I use a Goulet Pens ink sample bottle with just a few drops of water in it (photo: Noodler's Tiananmen).

Posted Image

Regards,

Joey

http://flexiblenib.com


#12 Exploratorius

Exploratorius

    Collectors Item

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 972 posts
  • Location:Central Maryland
  • Flag:

Posted 24 November 2012 - 11:54

That's rapidly becoming my favorite ink. Thanks for the review.
Mitch
=======
http://exploratorius.us

#13 thesunshine

thesunshine

    Aspiring Something-or-other

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  • Location:Australia
  • Flag:

Posted 24 November 2012 - 19:42

Thank you for the review. I'm still a very new user of fountain pens, so the idea of usin an iron gall ink still frightens me a little but the beautiful colour of this ink in your review has nudged me a lot closer to buying my first iron gall ink!

One small query: how long did you wait between writing the review and doing the scan? Has there been any colour change in the ink since then?
It's quite nice out here in the sunshine...

#14 Cryptowolf

Cryptowolf

    NOS (New Old Stock)

  • Member - Silver

  • PipPip
  • 16 posts
  • Location:Chicago, Il

Posted 24 November 2012 - 20:09

Thank you for the review. I especially appreciate your use of multiple pens. While I own this ink, you've done a fantastic job of making me lust after a Wahl Doric. B)

#15 Horseknitter

Horseknitter

    Vintage

  • Premium - Ruby

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 574 posts
  • Location:Northeast Texas
  • Flag:

Posted 24 November 2012 - 20:15

I have this ink and use it often. But you have indeed 'showcased' it in a way I have missed. I'm motivated to get out a softer, more flexible nib and get the results you have demonstrated. Thank you for the review and the motivation!

#16 jgrasty

jgrasty

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,977 posts
  • Location:Dallas TX
  • Flag:

Posted 24 November 2012 - 21:13

Thank you for the review. I'm still a very new user of fountain pens, so the idea of usin an iron gall ink still frightens me a little but the beautiful colour of this ink in your review has nudged me a lot closer to buying my first iron gall ink!

One small query: how long did you wait between writing the review and doing the scan? Has there been any colour change in the ink since then?


The scan was done a few hours after completing it. There's been no additional change since then.

All three iron-gall inks shown in the scan change color quickly, within a minute or two the change is complete. The only iron-gall ink that doesn't change in a minute or two, that I have, is Diamine Registrar's Ink, which takes about a day to fully change color.

Regards,

Joey

http://flexiblenib.com


#17 jolyon

jolyon

    Near Mint

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts
  • Location:East Anglia

Posted 08 December 2012 - 20:22

Hi,

This is a wonderful review, thank you! And I lose geek points for admitting it, but I've not seen the chromatography before -- gorgeous! Is it showing the colors that go into making this ink? And what size is the strip of coffee filter? Do you dip it in the bottle of ink, then immediately rinse it off?

Thanks,
Gretchen


Paper chromatography is quite easy. Cut s strip of suitable paper about 3 inches long (I use a coffee filter), write a line of ink on the paper about an 1/4" from the bottom, and immediately dip into enough water to draw the ink all the way to the top of the paper. I use a Goulet Pens ink sample bottle with just a few drops of water in it (photo: Noodler's Tiananmen).

Posted Image




For paper chromatography it's important to have the water level in the container lower than the ink on the paper when the paper is dipped into the ink. Otherwise the water becomes coloured and spreads the colour through the paper as it rises. The idea of this analytical technique is to separate the coloured components using colourless water.
Analysis is done to discover components, so there is no requirement to compare the result with something else, as was suggested by one of the comments on this interesting and useful ink review.

#18 jgrasty

jgrasty

    Antique

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,977 posts
  • Location:Dallas TX
  • Flag:

Posted 09 December 2012 - 15:37

Hi,

This is a wonderful review, thank you! And I lose geek points for admitting it, but I've not seen the chromatography before -- gorgeous! Is it showing the colors that go into making this ink? And what size is the strip of coffee filter? Do you dip it in the bottle of ink, then immediately rinse it off?

Thanks,
Gretchen


Paper chromatography is quite easy. Cut s strip of suitable paper about 3 inches long (I use a coffee filter), write a line of ink on the paper about an 1/4" from the bottom, and immediately dip into enough water to draw the ink all the way to the top of the paper. I use a Goulet Pens ink sample bottle with just a few drops of water in it (photo: Noodler's Tiananmen).

Posted Image




For paper chromatography it's important to have the water level in the container lower than the ink on the paper when the paper is dipped into the ink. Otherwise the water becomes coloured and spreads the colour through the paper as it rises. The idea of this analytical technique is to separate the coloured components using colourless water.
Analysis is done to discover components, so there is no requirement to compare the result with something else, as was suggested by one of the comments on this interesting and useful ink review.


Yes, that's correct. I messed that one up for sure.

Regards,

Joey

http://flexiblenib.com


#19 Belles-lettres

Belles-lettres

    Rare

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 170 posts
  • Location:Blue Ridge of Virginia
  • Flag:

Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:52

Nice review, thanks for reminding me about this ink - it fell out of my rotation and it needs to come back!
first fountain pen: student Sheaffer, 1956
next fountain pen: Montblanc 146 circa 1990
favourite ink: Noodler's Zhivago
favourite pen: Waterman No. 12
most beautiful pen: Conway Stewart 84 red with gold veins, oh goodness gracious


#20 georges zaslavsky

georges zaslavsky

    vintageandmodernpenslover

  • Member - Gold

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,078 posts
  • Location:France
  • Flag:

Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:40

very nice blue :thumbup: It reminds me a bit of diamine prussian blue but with a lighter tone
Pens are like watches , once you start a collection, you can hardly go back. And pens like all fine luxury items do improve with time






Sponsored Content




|